Dubai Floods.

[CityDave94]

Real grunge had a punk element to it, born out of the Washington and Oregon schools. Amazing bands , the genre peaked at around 1989, Sub Pop label had a great roster of bands to pick through like Tad and Mudhoney. Nirvana absolutely had their roots in punk rather than rock music and KC never held back talking about his influences which included many British bands. It was unfortunate that more rock orientated bands from the west coast got lumped in with that form of music. Grunge was always sludgy and or bass heavy punk completely unlike Screaming Trees and Pearl Jam.

There's an album called 'No Seattle : Forgotten Sounds of the North West Era 1986-97' which covers mainly unknown bands from that genre plus some others whom were of a similar mind based in the small towns in Washington State outside the main focus point of Seattle. This is the shit -

 

 

Edited April 19 by CityDave94

[CityDave94]

2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

The late 80s and 90s was a horrendous time period for rock music in Britain. It still hasn't recovered, probably never will at this point. Always made me laugh that people were dumfounded that yer Oasis etc never caught on the USA. The reason Britpop never caught on in America was because Britpop was, and remains, utter toilet. They were pumping out golden era hip-hop, grunge, post hardcore, starting all the extreme metal genres and all we could offer was a bunch of thick neds in parkas and their 3 chords on a guitar. 

Are you sure about that?

 

[Jives Miguel]

8 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

Are you sure about that?

 

Pretty much yes. Black metal and grindcore were European, other than that death metal was American, thrash offshoots like groove and crossover thrash were American, the doom metal offshoots of sludge metal and stoner metal were American.

Edited April 19 by Jives Miguel

[Newbornbairn]

 

 

Hairs on the back of the neck, from a time befre Dubai was invented 

[Wacky]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Beatles if I had to choose but Sympathy for the Devil is the best work by either.

Definitely stones best track. 
the Beatles did a song “while my guitar gently weeps” with Eric Clapton playing the weeping guitar, but this star studded version with Prince on the weeping guitar blows it out the water IMO. Watch out for George Harrison’s son playing guitar behind Prince, he’s the young guy with the big grin 

 

[Wacky]

3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

 

 

Hairs on the back of the neck, from a time befre Dubai was invented 

Brilliant. Not seen that one before. Thanks for sharing 

[CityDave94]

Just now, Jives Miguel said:

Pretty much yes. Black metal and grindcore were European, other than that death metal was American, trash offshoots like groove and crossover thrash were American, the doom metal offshoots of sludge metal and stoner metal were American.

I'll give you Death metal because Scream Bloody Gore and Florida, but not Black metal or grindcore. There was a lot proto-if-that'-the-right-word-bands of early metal genres around during the mid and late 80's like for example Justin Broadrick after leaving the original line up of Napalm Death formed Fall of Because and then Godflesh who were very pioneering for their time, there's industral. Another one that springs to mind. It can be claimed Black Sabbath were the first doom metal band and there were similar bands around during the 70's. Cathedral formed in the late 80's followed this path. I can probably give you sludge because of the fantastic Melvins, I can't think of anyone further back. Stoner metal not really that extreme nor began in the 90's had already been around since the late 60's but had a revival through bands like Electric Wizard and Orange Goblin, Sleep were another notable one. Both EW and OG are British. Google says Blue Cheer formed in 1966 were the 1st stoner metal band, I'm familiar with them, good band, if you haven't listened to them give Vincebus Eruptum a listen, check out their version of 'Summertime Blues'. Noted they were a favourite of the Hell's Angels.

The 90's especially the mid nineties I believe were very poor for metal, indeed there were some great bands around, but they had been around for a while, there wasn't much in the way of numbers especially new artists and it didn't change much until around the end of 1996. The late 90's was amazing, its when metal completely reinvented itself. So many new artists and so many interpretations and visionarys within the genres. Many of these artists I still buy music of, they never get old and the influence continues with new next generation artists every year. There is so many crossovers now as well.

[Wacky]

57 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

Real grunge had a punk element to it, born out of the Washington and Oregon schools. Amazing bands , the genre peaked at around 1989, Sub Pop label had a great roster of bands to pick through like Tad and Mudhoney. Nirvana absolutely had their roots in punk rather than rock music and KC never held back talking about his influences which included many British bands. It was unfortunate that more rock orientated bands from the west coast got lumped in with that form of music. Grunge was always sludgy and or bass heavy punk completely unlike Screaming Trees and Pearl Jam.

There's an album called 'No Seattle : Forgotten Sounds of the North West Era 1986-97' which covers mainly unknown bands from that genre plus some others whom were of a similar mind based in the small towns in Washington State outside the main focus point of Seattle. This is the shit -

 

 

Punk rocked. 

[Bert Raccoon]

Some incredible musical snobbery going on in a thread about the drainage system in Dubai, Bravo P&B, Bravo 

[orfc]

Best charlatans song - almost funk like bass

 

 

 

[Jives Miguel]

1 hour ago, CityDave94 said:

I'll give you Death metal because Scream Bloody Gore and Florida, but not Black metal or grindcore. There was a lot proto-if-that'-the-right-word-bands of early metal genres around during the mid and late 80's like for example Justin Broadrick after leaving the original line up of Napalm Death formed Fall of Because and then Godflesh who were very pioneering for their time, there's industral. Another one that springs to mind. It can be claimed Black Sabbath were the first doom metal band and there were similar bands around during the 70's. Cathedral formed in the late 80's followed this path. I can probably give you sludge because of the fantastic Melvins, I can't think of anyone further back. Stoner metal not really that extreme nor began in the 90's had already been around since the late 60's but had a revival through bands like Electric Wizard and Orange Goblin, Sleep were another notable one. Both EW and OG are British. Google says Blue Cheer formed in 1966 were the 1st stoner metal band, I'm familiar with them, good band, if you haven't listened to them give Vincebus Eruptum a listen, check out their version of 'Summertime Blues'. Noted they were a favourite of the Hell's Angels.

The 90's especially the mid nineties I believe were very poor for metal, indeed there were some great bands around, but they had been around for a while, there wasn't much in the way of numbers especially new artists and it didn't change much until around the end of 1996. The late 90's was amazing, its when metal completely reinvented itself. So many new artists and so many interpretations and visionarys within the genres. Many of these artists I still buy music of, they never get old and the influence continues with new next generation artists every year. There is so many crossovers now as well.

I just said black metal and grindcore were European? Not saying they are European inventions.

 

Black Sabbath were of course the inspiration for doom metal and all the doom metal offshoots, but you cant go back 20 years and apply a label to them that didn't exist at the time, in my opinion. Saint Vitus, Trouble (Americans) and Candlemass (Swedish) are the progenitor doom metal bands.

 

2nd half of My War by Black Flag is the first sludge metal music recorded. Its an American genre, mainly centred around Louisiana and the Southern states. Melvins, Acid Bath, Eyehategod and Crowbar being "The Big Four" of that particular genre. Some grunge bands have lashings of sludge metal to their sound, mainly Nirvana and Alice in Chains (the two best grunge bands, no coincidence).

Stoner Metal is another Black Sabbath inspired doom metal offshoot with an emphasis on a bit of a more upbeat, psychedelic, blues based sound, its not a revival of anything from the 60s imo. Orange Goblin are a complete non-entity with regards to this genre, and didn't even release anything until the late 90s anyway. Electric Wizard as you mention are the only non-American band of relevance here. Electric Wizard, Kyuss, Sleep, Boris (Japan), Weedeater, High on Fire are the big dogs here. I can't even think of any other European stoner metal bands apart from Cathedral, Lowrider and Acrimony, who are all dogshit anyway. I'm just going with the wikipedia definition of "extreme metal", which to them is pretty much everything post NWOBHM. Anyway, there's plenty of stoner metal with harsh vocals (.ie Bongzilla and Weedeater), so its extreme metal in my book even if some of it like Kyuss is actually on the boundary of rock music.

 

Can understand why old-school 80s metalheads might hate it considering the corrupting influence of groove metal, leading into nu metal, but there was still some fantastic stuff being put out in the non-thrash related genres in the 90s. Doom, stoner and sludge are my favourite metal genres, and When The Kite String Pops by Acid Bath is probably my favourite album ever, so for me the 90s is also my favourite genre for metal.

 

Just checked my rating catalogue to be sure, and Sleep, Kyuss, Dystopia, Acid Bath, Electric Wizard, Dystopia, Primus all putting out tremendous stuff in the 90s. W decade.

 

Edited April 19 by Jives Miguel

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

I just said black metal and grindcore were European? Not saying they are European inventions.

 

Black Sabbath were of course the inspiration for doom metal and all the doom metal offshoots, but you cant go back 20 years and apply a label to them that didn't exist at the time, in my opinion. Saint Vitus, Trouble (Americans) and Candlemass (Swedish) are the progenitor doom metal bands.

 

2nd half of My War by Black Flag is the first sludge metal music recorded. Its an American genre, mainly centred around Louisiana and the Southern states. Melvins, Acid Bath, Eyehategod and Crowbar being "The Big Four" of that particular genre. Some grunge bands have lashings of sludge metal to their sound, mainly Nirvana and Alice in Chains (the two best grunge bands, no coincidence).

Stoner Metal is another Black Sabbath inspired doom metal offshoot with an emphasis on a bit of a more upbeat, psychedelic, blues based sound, its not a revival of anything from the 60s imo. Orange Goblin are a complete non-entity with regards to this genre, and didn't even release anything until the late 90s anyway. Electric Wizard as you mention are the only non-American band of relevance here. Electric Wizard, Kyuss, Sleep, Boris (Japan), Weedeater, High on Fire are the big dogs here. I can't even think of any other European stoner metal bands apart from Cathedral, Lowrider and Acrimony, who are all dogshit anyway. I'm just going with the wikipedia definition of "extreme metal", which to them is pretty much everything post NWOBHM. Anyway, there's plenty of stoner metal with harsh vocals (.ie Bongzilla and Weedeater), so its extreme metal in my book even if some of it like Kyuss is actually on the boundary of rock music.

 

Can understand why old-school 80s metalheads might hate it considering the corrupting influence of groove metal, leading into nu metal, but there was still some fantastic stuff being put out in the non-thrash related genres in the 90s. Doom, stoner and sludge are my favourite metal genres, and When The Kite String Pops by Acid Bath is probably my favourite album ever, so for me the 90s is also my favourite genre for metal.

 

Just checked my rating catalogue to be sure, and Sleep, Kyuss, Dystopia, Acid Bath, Electric Wizard, Dystopia, Primus all putting out tremendous stuff in the 90s. W decade.

 

It's at times like this I see the sense in The Taliban banning music.

[CityDave94]

1 hour ago, Jives Miguel said:

I just said black metal and grindcore were European? Not saying they are European inventions.

 

Black Sabbath were of course the inspiration for doom metal and all the doom metal offshoots, but you cant go back 20 years and apply a label to them that didn't exist at the time, in my opinion. Saint Vitus, Trouble (Americans) and Candlemass (Swedish) are the progenitor doom metal bands.

 

2nd half of My War by Black Flag is the first sludge metal music recorded. Its an American genre, mainly centred around Louisiana and the Southern states. Melvins, Acid Bath, Eyehategod and Crowbar being "The Big Four" of that particular genre. Some grunge bands have lashings of sludge metal to their sound, mainly Nirvana and Alice in Chains (the two best grunge bands, no coincidence).

Stoner Metal is another Black Sabbath inspired doom metal offshoot with an emphasis on a bit of a more upbeat, psychedelic, blues based sound, its not a revival of anything from the 60s imo. Orange Goblin are a complete non-entity with regards to this genre, and didn't even release anything until the late 90s anyway. Electric Wizard as you mention are the only non-American band of relevance here. Electric Wizard, Kyuss, Sleep, Boris (Japan), Weedeater, High on Fire are the big dogs here. I can't even think of any other European stoner metal bands apart from Cathedral, Lowrider and Acrimony, who are all dogshit anyway. I'm just going with the wikipedia definition of "extreme metal", which to them is pretty much everything post NWOBHM. Anyway, there's plenty of stoner metal with harsh vocals (.ie Bongzilla and Weedeater), so its extreme metal in my book even if some of it like Kyuss is actually on the boundary of rock music.

 

Can understand why old-school 80s metalheads might hate it considering the corrupting influence of groove metal, leading into nu metal, but there was still some fantastic stuff being put out in the non-thrash related genres in the 90s. Doom, stoner and sludge are my favourite metal genres, and When The Kite String Pops by Acid Bath is probably my favourite album ever, so for me the 90s is also my favourite genre for metal.

 

Just checked my rating catalogue to be sure, and Sleep, Kyuss, Dystopia, Acid Bath, Electric Wizard, Dystopia, Primus all putting out tremendous stuff in the 90s. W decade.

 

I only really use labels for references when communicating with other people, I don't really like them as many bands go beyond like you mentioned Boris one of my favourite bands who can switch easily between really heavy doom and then noise rock. Its meaningless to me personally. High on Fire are another of my bands you mention. But yes these bands were leaders in their field but up to around late 1996 there was a complete lack of new ground breaking artists. Usually you'd find the music magazine's writers finding artists some not signed, but to me this period was very poor. Much of the metal genre had gone stale, my fovourites around the time were usually industral in style. Pitchshifter and Godflesh were two that were important. I actually missed DM band At the Gates who I only found about once I started buying Terrorizer magazine around 1999, they became one of my all time favourite artists. Faith No More were a mainstay of that era, I still listen to Mike Patton and his soundscapes and vocal contortions. I still like Devin Townsend as well. There is so many others, I should go through my collection. btw when I talk about so few that means around 30 or 40 artists on the go not 5 or 6, when it should have been in the hundreds. Love the internet, but I miss the magazines. Terrorizor and Rock Sound are sadly missed.

Alice in Chains were good for a while around 1990 but I'm more punk in taste than metal so I lost interest in that as it became more polished, commercial and losing its personality and energy. To me by 1993 only Nirvana were left, even Mudhoney didn't sound that great anymore. I was never into Screaming Trees, and Soundgarden were bunch of w*****s. I always found Dinosaur Jr and Sonic Youth more interesting and the new wave of punk and alternative bands in the USA were far more interesting plus they were around my age as well, not older. The UK music scene became more interesting as well with established genres getting blended and mixed. I really like left field electronic music and that took a huge leap forward around the early mid 90's as well. Good times.

I liked Compulsion a British band that had a post grunge feel, there weren't that many like that in the UK, the market is completely different here than over in the USA. The music especially in the underground/alternative scenes here moves fast. There was a band called Todd in the 2000's who come across as very influenced by the early heavier sound of Seattle. There is a band called Luminous Bodies around over the last few years who seemed to have captured that late 80's Sub Pop sound and feel.

 

[Ross.]

21 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

the Seahorses being awful

There are 4 cracking songs on that debut album, 3 of them were written by Chris Helme and the other I think has Liam Gallagher on the credits. The rest was okay without being great.

You Can Talk To Me is also a cracking anthem, again though Chris Helme has a writing credit on it.

I get your point but I disagree they were awful. Squire definitely took more credit for the success of Do It Yourself than he deserved.

Would absolutely recommend going to see Chris Helme if you can catch him doing a solo gig. Fantastic live.

[Miguel Sanchez]

"grunge" as a genre doesn't exist, it was created by a media unable to categorise the music as anything else.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Speaking of which, new Pearl Jam album out today. Twenty three human pounds if you buy it in a shop. 

[CityDave94]

2 hours ago, Bert Raccoon said:

Some incredible musical snobbery going on in a thread about the drainage system in Dubai, Bravo P&B, Bravo 

There's a complete lack of drainage snobbery on here.

You would think that on such a thread some people could not go 5 minutes without talking about drainage.

[CityDave94]

8 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

"grunge" as a genre doesn't exist, it was created by a media unable to categorise the music as anything else.

Yeah to be pedantic about it, it would be said that rock is a genre and grunge is a style.

It does exist because you thought it.

Edited April 19 by CityDave94

[Florentine_Pogen]

41 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

There's a complete lack of drainage snobbery on here.

You would think that on such a thread some people could not go 5 minutes without talking about drainage.

I'm sure someone more switched on than me could do an essay on the philosophical / psychological connections between grunge, death/thrash metal, grimecore, schinctercore and drainage systems / septic tanks in Dubai.

[Fullerene]

4 hours ago, Wacky said:

Definitely stones best track. 
the Beatles did a song “while my guitar gently weeps” with Eric Clapton playing the weeping guitar, but this star studded version with Prince on the weeping guitar blows it out the water IMO. Watch out for George Harrison’s son playing guitar behind Prince, he’s the young guy with the big grin 

 

Apparently George invited Eric along to ensure the other Beatles were on their best behaviour.  There is a version on the anthrology album that has George instead of Eric.  There is also a star-studded video with George and Ringo.  It is excellent.

I agree that this video is great.  Prince was a very talented musician who could play about 27 instruments.  He steals the show on this one.  Dhani Harrison definitely looked pleased to be there.  BTW He released an album of his own last year called "Innerstanding".