El Final: 🇪🇸 Spain v England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[Claudia Gentile]

 

Edited July 15 by Claudia Gentile

[Beans on Toast]

1 minute ago, Zetterlund said:

I can't remember which pundit it was now, but remember before the very first game vs Serbia they were saying no defender will be able to deal with Harry Kane. Then Harry turns up and performs like a 40 year old drummer playing at Soccer Aid.

My favourite bit of punditry from the tournament, possibly ever, was from Rio Ferdinand. Surprising I know.

At half time of the first England game he asked Cesc Fabregas if he had ever played with a player as good as Jude Bellingham.

Not only was Cesc a better player himself, he has also played numerous times with Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets. Three of the finest midfielders of this generation. As well as the likes of Torres, Villa, Puyol, Ramos, Pedro, etc. Oh and, small note, Leo fucking Messi, the greatest player of all time.

I think they might be better than a guy who had a good half season at Madrid. Fucking idiot.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

The vultures are already circling Gareth's brave lads.

 

 

[Granny Danger]

 

[Comrie]

39 minutes ago, Elixir said:

    

 

I like how they mention Rice, who was w**k in the final.

[Jacksgranda]

55 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Agreed. Whilst England looked better without Kane, it didn't take away from the fundamental fact that they were comprehensively outplayed. There were two choices, ultimately - match Spain in style or attempt to counter it by playing differently to Spain. England chose the latter, even if this was simply playing the way they'd played all tournament; it didn't work. If they had tried going tie to toe with Spain in the way that many of their fans would've preferred, they'd have been horsed because they can't play that way with what they'v got. Even with the usual Southgate defensively-minded set up, Spain created a fair number of chances and also found a lot of space despite the number of England jerseys around them. A very impressive performance from them last night. 

Back to Kane, the manner of play certainly didn't suit him, but he is essentially a poacher and a penalty merchant. He was at his best for England when Raheem Sterling would cut inside and put the ball eight yards out for him to tap in. In theory, that's what Saka and Foden were on the pitch to do, but both were largely garbage all tournament. Whether that's a result of Southgate's style or they were just off the boil, I don't know. 

Southgate gets far too much criticism whilst being England's most successful manager in the modern game. There is no denying they are terrible to watch, but having some excellent attacking players on its own does not equal swashbuckling football and it certainly does not win trophies. Look at Argentina from 2010-2018 for example: peak Messi, peak Di Maria and other fantastic forwards. They failed to win the World Cup, but managed it in 2022 when they were relatively unfancied, because the sum of the parts was greater than the individual talent from previous editions. 

I think that's where England are. The attacking options obscure the fact that their defence isn't very good and was repeatedly stretched from the QF onwards. Walker's legs appear to have gone and suddenly a multitude of sins is no longer masked. The middle of midfield, they have Bellingham, but Rice is an overpriced average player and Mainoo is yet another overhyped teenager. He might well be a wonderful player one day, but he is miles off being an elite player at the moment. They are not capable of dominating possession or pressing like Spain do and therefore their style has to be adapted to compensate. 

TLDR: some very good forwards does not make a team that wins trophies. 

Thank goodness

[Dunning1874]

40 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

 

Mark Lawrenson at minute 1 of Germany England is still the peak of "how many of Country X players would get in this england side" punditry and may never be topped

Bold Lawro claimed one, *maybe* two germany players if including the goalkeeper would make the england lineup (yes, prime fucking Manuel Neuer as a *maybe* & I think it was still David fucking James in goal at the time) 

*mike basset voiceover* England go on to lose to Germany by four goals to one

The same David James explicitly said before the game "we are a better team than Germany".

They had Matthew Upson at centre back.

[ICTChris]

I am no expert by any means as I don't watch a great deal of top level football anymore but England always seem to lack players in midfield who can dictate passing.  I'm not meaning guys like Bellingham who can have huge impact but guys who act like a metronome, who recycle possession and allow the team to dominate.  Most other teams have guys like that but England never seem to have them - Declan Rice isn't that sort of player, maybe Mainoo could grow into that but doesn't seem to be it now.

Mentioning the 2010 England-Germany game brought it to mind as I remember watching that game and thinking that England have nobody like Schweinsteiger who did that for Germany for many years.  In that match England had Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard in central midfield, both excellent players but not really the sort who would allow you to do that.  Of course, England had Michael Carrick, who was that sort of player but he wasn't favoured, for years the talk was 'how can Lampard and Gerard play together?'.  Carrick didn't get on the pitch for England in 2010.

 

[afca32]

2 hours ago, MarkoRaj said:

Hate this patter.

Tika taka was a glorious era of football.

Tedious but effective seems like something you'd say about a Sean Dyche or Walter Smith side.

Spain scored 12 goals that Euros including two 4-0 victories. They were much better to watch than most other modern Euros winners, Greece, Portugal, Italy to name a few

Are you trying to say Italy in 2021 were in any way dull? They scored 13 goals that tournament (granted played an extra game) and although I don't disagree with your overall point their games were more entertaining than Spain in 2012.

[Richey Edwards]

 

[Jacksgranda]

Didn't get up till near 10 and have spent most of the last 5 hours catching up on this thread from where I left off last night.

Great reading!

[AUcal]

[GordonS]

14 minutes ago, afca32 said:

Are you trying to say Italy in 2021 were in any way dull? They scored 13 goals that tournament (granted played an extra game) and although I don't disagree with your overall point their games were more entertaining than Spain in 2012.

If that's your opinion then fair enough, each to their own, but I couldn't disagree more. Spain 2008-12 is the international team I have most enjoyed watching in my life and the 2012 final was their signature performance. I found Italy's team of 2021 to be fairly typical and nothing outstanding, apart from in defence.

[Islay]

15 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

Will ITV show a repeat either lIve or on ITV X?

https://player.stv.tv/episode/4m1l/uefa-euro

[Red Kite]

We just weren't good enough and even when the equaliser went in, I  felt certain we would lose.  Spain's midfield were better at getting into space and holding their line to receive the ball, not dropping back.  The best team in the competition won.  Congratulations to Spain.

 

[itzdrk]

8 minutes ago, Islay said:

https://player.stv.tv/episode/4m1l/uefa-euro

New year viewing sorted. 

[LondonHMFC]

1 hour ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

 

Mark Lawrenson at minute 1 of Germany England is still the peak of "how many of Country X players would get in this england side" punditry and may never be topped

Bold Lawro claimed one, *maybe* two germany players if including the goalkeeper would make the england lineup (yes, prime fucking Manuel Neuer as a *maybe* & I think it was still David fucking James in goal at the time) 

Trying to think what is a wilder claim, David James getting in front of Neur or Robert Maxwell being killed by Mossad. 

Some boi.

[Claudia Gentile]

39 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I am no expert by any means as I don't watch a great deal of top level football anymore but England always seem to lack players in midfield who can dictate passing.  I'm not meaning guys like Bellingham who can have huge impact but guys who act like a metronome, who recycle possession and allow the team to dominate.  Most other teams have guys like that but England never seem to have them - Declan Rice isn't that sort of player, maybe Mainoo could grow into that but doesn't seem to be it now.

Mentioning the 2010 England-Germany game brought it to mind as I remember watching that game and thinking that England have nobody like Schweinsteiger who did that for Germany for many years.  In that match England had Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard in central midfield, both excellent players but not really the sort who would allow you to do that.  Of course, England had Michael Carrick, who was that sort of player but he wasn't favoured, for years the talk was 'how can Lampard and Gerard play together?'.  Carrick didn't get on the pitch for England in 2010.

 

Yup, was thinking similar. I think Toni Kroos had a lot to do with some of Bellingham's domestic ans European success last season. He will be a big miss for Madrid.

England don't have anyone in that role. 

[Thumper]

In terms of sour grapes nothing will ever beat Lawrenson's full 25 minutes of impotent rage during the Germany pumping. My three-year-old acts with more grace when he's not allowed another ice lolly.

I swear there must be some green dot rationing in place right now. Never shot my load as fast.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

2 minutes ago, Thumper said:

In terms of sour grapes nothing will ever beat Lawrenson's full 25 minutes of impotent rage during the Germany pumping. My three-year-old acts with more grace when he's not allowed another ice lolly.

I swear there must be some green dot rationing in place right now. Never shot my load as fast.

My favourite from the same game