10 Years Ago

[Cheese]

We had a referendum.

Despite it being arguably the biggest political event in this country in living memory and a moment where we witnessed an unparalleled interest in politics by your average punter, where folk who had never voted before (and probably haven't since) went down to tick their box, there's very little in the way of marking this anniversary. Neither the SNP or the Unionist parties seem much inclined to discuss it to any degree, or provide any retrospective thoughts.

Was it a good idea to let the plebs have such a big say, or should the sensible and important people be left to get on with it and democracy should strictly be a once every 5 years you pick the least worse arsehole on your slip ?

What are your favourite memories ? Would you like to do it again ? Do you think we'll get to do it again ?

Is the country in a better state after the result, and if not, who actually 'won' the referendum then ?

What figures involved are no longer around who should be ? Who is still around who shouldn't be ?

What does the future hold for both this issue and Scottish politics in general ?

[pozbaird]

I thought the best bit about it was the build up to it, when the outcome was genuinely in the balance. It was quite exciting for a bit.

I thought the worst bit about it was the bitterness in general afterwards, and shite like the stand off in George Square between Saltire waving kunts who wouldn’t accept the result (still fcuking don’t), and triumpalist Union flag waving dregs of Ibrox Sevco supporting types. Both extremes can fcuk off…

IMHO.

Edited Tuesday at 19:49 by pozbaird

[GNU_Linux]

All to play for in the 2nd leg imo

[Central Belt Caley]

Wanted to have another one ever since the Brexit result was announced.

Was the first thing I could ever vote in having turned 18 2 months prior. Voted No to keep our place in the EU (that went well). 

Every trip to the pub or someone’s house ended up with us all discussing it and towards the end I just couldn’t be f**ked with it anymore. Was glad when it was over. 
 

5 years ago if you’d asked me I’d have said I was confident we’d be in independent in my lifetime, now I don’t think it’ll happen. 

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, pozbaird said:

I thought the best bit about it was the build up to it, when the outcome was genuinely in the balance. It was quite exciting for a bit.

I thought the worst bit about it was the bitterness in general afterwards, and shite like the stand off in George Square between Saltire waving kunts who wouldn’t accept the result (still fcuking don’t), and triumpalist Union flag waving dregs of Ibrox Sevco supporting types. Both extremes can fcuk off…

IMHO.

This is still bandied about, and it amuses me that the assertion is because Deek fae the multis "doesn't accept" the result of the 2014 Indi Ref that something, somehow materially changed.

It's just as bizarre when it's levelled at Nicola Sturgeon and Co. Like, "aye, right enough. I remember the day after when the SNP just went ahead and UDI'd anyway..."

[ScotiaNostra]

A long 10 years in a way, the No winning was a disappointment but thats democracy. What was more disappointing for me was the failing to take advantage of brexit in getting independence over the line. The SNP seemed like rabbit in the headlights and I feel rightly or wrongly missed a great opportunity. 

Independence may still happen but Im not going to spend much time thinking about it until another referendum happens

Edited Tuesday at 21:18 by ScotiaNostra

[pozbaird]

41 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

This is still bandied about, and it amuses me that the assertion is because Deek fae the multis "doesn't accept" the result of the 2014 Indi Ref that something, somehow materially changed.

It's just as bizarre when it's levelled at Nicola Sturgeon and Co. Like, "aye, right enough. I remember the day after when the SNP just went ahead and UDI'd anyway..."

I know more than a few ‘yes’ voters myself who want Indy Ref 2, Indy Ref 3, and Indy Ref 4… and so on, until they get the result they want. Until such times, they scweam and scweam like a spoilt child who isn’t getting their way. I’m sorry, but in every other regard, they’re aw’right - but they are the definition of Saltire waving kunts.

As I say, my opinion.

[Boo Khaki]

9 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I know more than a few ‘yes’ voters myself who want Indy Ref 2, Indy Ref 3, and Indy Ref 4… and so on, until they get the result they want. Until such times, they scweam and scweam like a spoilt child who isn’t getting their way. I’m sorry, but in every other regard, they’re aw’right - but they are the definition of Saltire waving kunts.

As I say, my opinion.

Being unhappy at an outcome, campaigning for a re-run, and still maintaining your original stance on something doesn't equate to "not accepting" a result though.

It's the terminology I find ridiculous. Presumably the people who repeatedly use this have always found it strange that in the aftermath of a General Election the Opposition doesnae just go "aye, right enough, we were totally 100% wrong and we're just gonna vote with the new Government on everything noo, lest we be accused of "not accepting" the result".

You can totally accept the outcome of the 2014 Ref (well let's face it, everyone has because "not accepting" it is wholly inconsequential beyond having a wee personal tantrum) while still maintaining it was a terrible outcome and campaigning to hold another.

Edited Tuesday at 21:50 by Boo Khaki

[Enigma]

With hindsight some form of “devo-max”, full fiscal autonomy, should have been on the ballot as a second question.

Edited Tuesday at 22:04 by Enigma

[Lurkst]

10 minutes ago, Enigma said:

With hindsight some form of “devo-max”, full fiscal autonomy, should have been on the ballot as a second question.

Would've won at a canter. Cameron offered it, Salmond refused.

 

[craigkillie]

Was it offered as a second question, or a third option?

[tamthebam]

The remarkable thing I suppose is that independence is still favoured by just under half the electorate. 

The Unionist position seems to be "we won and everything is all right with the Union" when it isn't.

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

The remarkable thing I suppose is that independence is still favoured by just under half the electorate. 

The Unionist position seems to be "we won and everything is all right with the Union" when it isn't.

There's something out today that suggests if Indi came with a guarantee of a return to the EU, it's overwhelmingly the preference of Scots, with only 36% still voting "No".

[git-intae-thum]

This last decade reminds me of the period after 79. 

The Scottish parliament referendum was "lost."

A cowed and shell-shocked populace then allowed the country to be totally f@cked over for the best part of 20 years.

It's happened again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Groundhopping Adventures]

Have done a bit of reflection recently.

I think Salmond's ego f**ked it. He never came up with economic arguments that Unionists couldn't bat away. Alistair Darling was a very effective campaigner despite being one of the most boring people ever to live. A steady pair of hands is exactly what the No side needed and he provided this. Going again I think nearly two years was too long a build up. Rightly or wrongly I think the fairly short turnaround was why Brexit won. Sturgeon should also have been head of the Yes Campaign. She's divisive now but was well thought of until not that long ago. 

It was incredibly exciting time but the paranoia from many of us, myself included, is a bit of a minter looking back on. Were the BBC deliberately bias? I think Hanlon's razor can be applied here. The, especially, London based media didn't understand the need to tread so carefully and it came across as pro Union whether it was or not. 

Will it happen? Not any time soon. The SNP have ran out of ideas, think Labour/Lib Dem after 2026 is looking more and more likely. Obviously that means it's well off the table. The SNP will be back but they will need to rebuild. They managed as a very broad church, keeping John Mason and Mhairi Black in the same party for over ten years is some going, but the re-emergence of Labour and the sustained vote of the Greens is taking away some of their left leaning voters.

I hope it does happen. I thought it would have by now to be honest. If it is to happen there needs to be a exquisitely thought out campaign that produces genuine economic arguments. "Voting Yes to get back in the EU" may convince a few but empirical evidence that "Independence will get you an extra 27 pence a year" is what sways voters that are ambivalent or skeptical of Independence. Despite the UK slumping for obvious reasons it is still a strong economy and people are, rightly or wrongly, shitebags when it comes to taking chances of economics.

Thank you Scotland for the Summer of 2014, Archie McPherson and Jim Murphy may try and convince you that it was a horrible time but it was a fantastic time to be here. It won't be for a few decades at least but if we do get another chance I hope it's the same feelings just with a different result.

[dirty dingus]

The 10 years after the country under immense pressure from 99% of media outlets backed remaining in the empire have been an absolute clusterf**k of Scotland basically being put back in your box and denied any sort of democratic right to change it's path. After Brexit the SNP should have walked out of Westminster and declared UDI but were to busy dying on a hill over trans stuff and other micro issues that affect about 0.001% of the population

[coprolite]

I'm quite ambivalent about the whole thing. Didn't live in Scotland and still don't, so it affected me less and i didn't get asked. 

I think, and still do, that the focus on the Economics was a mistake. There's so little in the arguments either way, and techy debates about currency bore the arse off normal people. 

The Yes campaign wasn't emotive enough. Voters are stupid and need to be advertised to, not persuaded by facts. 

A couple of straightforward points repeated ad nauseam might have done it. 

[Lurkst]

8 minutes ago, coprolite said:

A couple of straightforward points repeated ad nauseam might have done it. 

Like "Take back control" 

 

[sparky88]

Not sure 'yes' have learned the right lessons from the referendum. Assuming Brexit would carry Yes over the line when many of those that voted Remain already voted Yes seems a mistake.

The debate over currency is one of the major things that stopped right leaning people voting Yes. When yes can see Tories voting Yes then they will have won, but they seem to have ignored them (and still do) 

[I Clavdivs]

I posted this on another thread,however,for me it captures perfectly the NO campaign of 2014 and the reality of Scotland under Union today...a massive opportunity missed.

 

Edited yesterday at 06:30 by I Clavdivs