The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Skyline Drifter]

He'd have scored yesterday if Vaughan hadn't gotten a bit big-headed. Name another winger at this level who gets double figures in goals..

Iain Russell

[Ludo*1]

Raith fans having the exact same debate Dundee fans had over Conroy throughout his time with us.

[roverthemoon]

Is there anyone here that still supports the manager?

I'm still of the opinion that it would be a bit harsh to sack him based on performances over the season as a whole. The start of the season, the revival after Christmas, the mini-revival before we finally crashed and burned and the Scottish Cup run were all acceptable periods in the season. We also never looked in any danger or relegation which hasn't always been the case in recent years.

Of course there has been periods of utter dross. The loss to Dunfermline, the failure to compete with Rangers and Hearts, the brutal mid-season slump and then the complete capitulation in the last few weeks. Throw in the abject performance against Inverness and the baffling situation of always playing Barry fucking McKay and there's a whole lot on the negative side too.

It's been an average season not a god awful one as some are making out. And certainly not as bad as the Anelka years or enough to make me abandon the team I support as some have threatened.

That's not to say I think he's a great manager or will necessarily turn things around but I think he deserves the start of next season to try and change things and get us properly challenging for a play off. If by Christmas it's mid table mediocrity again then pay him off then.

Having said all that, yesterday proved he has lost the support. The atmosphere is toxic around Starks Park and has been all season. That leads me to start to think maybe starting afresh might be the best option. But that's as much to do with how the support are behaving as Murray's abilities.

Our home 'support' have been that in name only most games and many seem more keen to berate players than offer encouragement. Of course they'll argue that's all Murray's fault and is entirely justified. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'd rather have a support that positively encourages the team. So if we are talking about changes to improve our club my first would be to get rid of the overly critical, negative section of our support and see how the team gets on with some decent backing.

[kev23]

Remove that section of the support and we will be a part time team before long. Obviously you can't actually ban people for being negative but you can change their views. When we went on a decent run the mood changes. There was times the crowd was right behind the team when losing at half time which is something that very rarely happens. There will always be people who look for the negatives but when we have a winning hard working team they become a lot more quiet, or even positive.

[Broken Algorithms]

I'm still of the opinion that it would be a bit harsh to sack him based on performances over the season as a whole. The start of the season, the revival after Christmas, the mini-revival before we finally crashed and burned and the Scottish Cup run were all acceptable periods in the season. We also never looked in any danger or relegation which hasn't always been the case in recent years.

Of course there has been periods of utter dross. The loss to Dunfermline, the failure to compete with Rangers and Hearts, the brutal mid-season slump and then the complete capitulation in the last few weeks. Throw in the abject performance against Inverness and the baffling situation of always playing Barry fucking McKay and there's a whole lot on the negative side too.

It's been an average season not a god awful one as some are making out. And certainly not as bad as the Anelka years or enough to make me abandon the team I support as some have threatened.

That's not to say I think he's a great manager or will necessarily turn things around but I think he deserves the start of next season to try and change things and get us properly challenging for a play off. If by Christmas it's mid table mediocrity again then pay him off then.

Having said all that, yesterday proved he has lost the support. The atmosphere is toxic around Starks Park and has been all season. That leads me to start to think maybe starting afresh might be the best option. But that's as much to do with how the support are behaving as Murray's abilities.

Our home 'support' have been that in name only most games and many seem more keen to berate players than offer encouragement. Of course they'll argue that's all Murray's fault and is entirely justified. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'd rather have a support that positively encourages the team. So if we are talking about changes to improve our club my first would be to get rid of the overly critical, negative section of our support and see how the team gets on with some decent backing.

You've summed up my feelings pretty much perfectly. Said it before (and probably will again) but we've beaten the teams you'd expect us to beat, and lost to the teams with larger budgets up to the 2nd Falkirk away game. The exceptions were the first three games against Queens and Livi at home with 10 men.

Edited April 26, 2015 by rw89

[Rovers1992/1993]

And you know he would have scored how?

Jamie Walker.

Anderson > Conroy.

Never missed a single penalty for Dundee, hasn't missed one for us yet.

I don't think Vaughan has scored one yet despite taking 2 or 3 for us.

If there is a player with penalties as one of their specialities, you don't take it off them. If you do, you have to make sure you score it. Vaughan failed at that.

[Wardy]

I'm still of the opinion that it would be a bit harsh to sack him based on performances over the season as a whole. The start of the season, the revival after Christmas, the mini-revival before we finally crashed and burned and the Scottish Cup run were all acceptable periods in the season. We also never looked in any danger or relegation which hasn't always been the case in recent years.

Of course there has been periods of utter dross. The loss to Dunfermline, the failure to compete with Rangers and Hearts, the brutal mid-season slump and then the complete capitulation in the last few weeks. Throw in the abject performance against Inverness and the baffling situation of always playing Barry fucking McKay and there's a whole lot on the negative side too.

It's been an average season not a god awful one as some are making out. And certainly not as bad as the Anelka years or enough to make me abandon the team I support as some have threatened.

That's not to say I think he's a great manager or will necessarily turn things around but I think he deserves the start of next season to try and change things and get us properly challenging for a play off. If by Christmas it's mid table mediocrity again then pay him off then.

Having said all that, yesterday proved he has lost the support. The atmosphere is toxic around Starks Park and has been all season. That leads me to start to think maybe starting afresh might be the best option. But that's as much to do with how the support are behaving as Murray's abilities.

Our home 'support' have been that in name only most games and many seem more keen to berate players than offer encouragement. Of course they'll argue that's all Murray's fault and is entirely justified. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'd rather have a support that positively encourages the team. So if we are talking about changes to improve our club my first would be to get rid of the overly critical, negative section of our support and see how the team gets on with some decent backing.

how exactly would you go about getting "rid" of over critical support? Genuine question?

[Ro Sham Bo]

Never missed a single penalty for Dundee, hasn't missed one for us yet.

I don't think Vaughan has scored one yet despite taking 2 or 3 for us.

If there is a player with penalties as one of their specialities, you don't take it off them. If you do, you have to make sure you score it. Vaughan failed at that.

What difference does it make when we are 4-0 down? Jameson has saved three penalties in a row against us. Who is to say he wouldn't have saved Conroy's?

[Wildrover]

how exactly would you go about getting "rid" of over critical support? Genuine question?

Perhaps get rid of the cause of the negativity, Grant Murray.

[kev23]

You've summed up my feelings pretty much perfectly. Said it before (and probably will again) but we've beaten the teams you'd expect us to beat, and lost to the teams with larger budgets up to the 2nd Falkirk away game. The exceptions were the first three games against Queens and Livi at home with 10 men.

Why are you so happy to accept how mediocre we are? Yes we are competing where we should be, however attendances are dropping* and the unrest within our support is getting to an unreal level. This won't be our level if we don't change.

Other than a small spell in the middle of the season and Dumbarton on the opening day, I don't think I've enjoyed a game. I have zero care about the players we have except McGurn, Hill and Anderson. I like to see Callachan and Vaughan do well too. The rest, I genuinely couldn't care if they left. I don't think I'm alone in these thoughts.

This season IMO, has been a bit of a disaster. We had a very decent team on paper at the start of the season and we have finished with a total wimper. I know of more people not renewing season tickets than renewing. I honestly can't see why people are content with the 'we are where we are' attitude.

*obviously attendances will be up however once we lose the Hearts and potentially one of Rangers and Hibs it will fall. Our attendances for games vs the usual suspects seem to be getting smaller.

[Beachbum]

So if we are talking about changes to improve our club my first would be to get rid of the overly critical, negative section of our support and see how the team gets on with some decent backing.

You'd still have to get rid of the slow players in the team - Conroy, Fox, Nade, Scott, Hill, Elliot and Thomson. Also, the team as a whole is a lazy one - the exact opposite of Livingston. When was the last time you saw Rovers work hard to close a team down the way Livingston did yesterday? Rovers always take the easy option and retreat. When was the last time you saw them pass and move into space to get a one touch pass? In fact when did we last see a one touch pass? The simple truth is that Rovers are painful to watch.

I can't wait for the board's reaction to the McGurn problem but if they don't come out with something before the Press comes out on Thursday we'll know something's up.

It's taken me long enough but I'm now in the Murray out camp.

[mojito]

Yesterday could be the turning point for me.

It was always going to be a strange one, a team fighting to avoid relegation against s team who's place cannot be changed.

However to put in such an abject display was indefensible. It's the ease in which we leak goals. Pretty much everyone of them gift-wrapped.

Season tickets on sale and a signing session planned.For the kids and we deliver what I think was our worst performance.of the season.

Then of course there is the Mcgurn episode. Came back into the team and really settled us, pulled off worldies week after week and finds himself out the team and no chat of a contract, how he hasn't told us too do one and signed elsewhere, i'll never know.

[roverthemoon]

how exactly would you go about getting "rid" of over critical support? Genuine question?

Maybe my wording could have been clearer. It's not the people I want rid, it's their negativity and constant criticism. People shouting personal abuse at individual players or booing the team off at half-time even when we aren't losing are the two things that spring to mind. If I could make a change it would be to persuade those people to back the team positively and see how we get on. It's a pipe dream though.

[roverthemoon]

You'd still have to get rid of the slow players in the team - Conroy, Fox, Nade, Scott, Hill, Elliot and Thomson. Also, the team as a whole is a lazy one - the exact opposite of Livingston. When was the last time you saw Rovers work hard to close a team down the way Livingston did yesterday? Rovers always take the easy option and retreat. When was the last time you saw them pass and move into space to get a one touch pass? In fact when did we last see a one touch pass? The simple truth is that Rovers are painful to watch.

Absolutely agree. Just because I think it would be harsh to sack Murray doesn't mean I think this season was hugely entertaining or our players are good enough. Huge improvement is needed.

The one thing to add to my bit above is to say that if McGurn wants to stay and Murray doesn't offer him terms then that would tip me over the edge to wanting him gone. That would be a dreadful error of judgement

[roverthemoon]

This season IMO, has been a bit of a disaster

I know it's all about opinions but I think calling the season a disaster is way over the top. Getting relegated is a disaster. The club losing thousands of pounds or going badly into debt is a disaster. Getting knocked out of all three cups by lower league teams is a disaster.

The club finished comfortably mid-table, reached the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup and likely turned in another financial profit. It may have been uninspiring at times and even turgid on occasion but it's not a season you'd describe as a 'disaster'. Not even close.

[kev23]

I know it's all about opinions but I think calling the season a disaster is way over the top. Getting relegated is a disaster. The club losing thousands of pounds or going badly into debt is a disaster. Getting knocked out of all three cups by lower league teams is a disaster.

The club finished comfortably mid-table, reached the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup and likely turned in another financial profit. It may have been uninspiring at times and even turgid on occasion but it's not a season you'd describe as a 'disaster'. Not even close.

I said a bit of a disaster. Not a full blown disaster. We have accomplished nothing but will lose some our already small support.

If you prefer the term shite we can go with that instead.

[roverthemoon]

I said a bit of a disaster. Not a full blown disaster. We have accomplished nothing but will lose some our already small support.

If you prefer the term shite we can go with that instead.

I'd prefer 'average' but can see how someone would describe it as shite. Shite with a golden moment at Ibrox

[Geordie_Munrover]

As many have stated on here, on a personal level Grant Murray is a good guy. He has worked alongside McGurn for years.... Do folk really think he would stop McGurn from playing his last ever game at SP and deny him the send off he deserves from the fans???? Or is it not possible having secured 6th place with a few games to go, he gave Cuthbert a chance to put himself in the shop window for next season knowing he won't be at raith next season???

Edited April 26, 2015 by Geordie_Munrover

[Ro Sham Bo]

As many have stated on here, on a personal level Grant Murray is a good guy. He has worked alongside McGurn for years.... Do folk really think he would stop McGurn from playing his last ever game at SP and deny him the send off he deserves from the fans???? Or is it not possible having secured 6th place with a few games to go, he gave Cuthbert a chance to put himself in the shop window for next season knowing he won't be at raith next season???

If he is then that's equally ridiculous.

[basher brash]

To many times this season we been absolutely woeful especially at home, 1 shot on target in the first 45 mins yesterday! His obsession of playing Barry McKay every week is baffling and he's not even our player so to play him yesterday why?. The BOD have done a great job up until now but are in danger of ruining all that hard work by keeping the useless one in charge for another season when in all honesty I think he won't get his contract renewed next season unless he achieves a play off spot next season.