The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Rovers_Lad]

cobblers

[Yoss]

'96 was where it all started to go wrong, we got relegated with an overpaid but very very average team in PL terms. We then made the mistake of thinking we were a big club and chasing the dream of going straight back up the next season by throwing money at over the hill has beens such as Keith Wright and Guido van de Kamp, chancers like Kevin Twaddle and Scott Thomson (midfielder/striker, not goalie) as well as spending big on young guys like Craig McEwan and Paul Browne who was signed the year before.

Put out all that money for very little return on the pitch and you have a club in a bad way with a negative vibe about it and a lot of guys playing for us who really didn't give a shit other than about their big pay packets. After that the malaise is very difficult to shift and culminated as was said with the Anelka debacle.Thankfully we now have people in charge who run the club properly and don't confuse ambition with throwing money at things we can't afford. Mid to top of Div 1 is our natural level, anything above is a bonus IMO.

'96 we stayed up, it was '97 we got relegated. And my recollection is that Twaddle was also signed the summer of '96 along with Browne (and Harvey).

But yes, the general point stands. Having stayed up in '96, and with the money from Cameron, Crawford, Dair and Sinclair burning a hole in our pocket, we seemed to think we were a big team, and the combination of transfer fees and wages we spent over the next couple of years on McEwan, Browne, Harvey, Paul Bonar and indeed Paul Hartley was reckless and we're still effectively paying for it now.

(Harvey is still quoted as the record buy, but my understanding is that Hartley effectively cost us more, 'cause we wrote off the last tranche of money that Millwall owed us but said they couldn't pay.)

[Broken Algorithms]

It was 97/98 season that we spent big and did f**k all. Dundee won the league that year (at Stark's) with us finishing third. The only things I remember were going to my first game (a 0-0 draw versus Airdrie) and seeing my first win (a 4-1 win against St Mirren I think with Dargo getting a hat-trick).

[bobbykdy]

'96 we stayed up, it was '97 we got relegated. And my recollection is that Twaddle was also signed the summer of '96 along with Browne (and Harvey).

But yes, the general point stands. Having stayed up in '96, and with the money from Cameron, Crawford, Dair and Sinclair burning a hole in our pocket, we seemed to think we were a big team, and the combination of transfer fees and wages we spent over the next couple of years on McEwan, Browne, Harvey, Paul Bonar and indeed Paul Hartley was reckless and we're still effectively paying for it now.

(Harvey is still quoted as the record buy, but my understanding is that Hartley effectively cost us more, 'cause we wrote off the last tranche of money that Millwall owed us but said they couldn't pay.)

Yeah I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been, we were relegated at the end of 96-97 season having signed guys like Twaddle, Browne, Duffield and John Millar (remember him?) the summer before plus we had already added Scott mouthpiece Thomson towards the end of the season previous. The summer of 97 then saw us add the likes of McEwan, Wright and Van de Kamp on top of an already expensive and under achieving squad. As you rightly point out we probably still pay for this profligacy to this day.

Edited March 13, 2015 by bobbykdy

[Yoss]

Yeah I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been, we were relegated at the end of 96-97 season having signed guys like Twaddle, Browne, Duffield and John Millar (remember him?) the summer before plus we had already added Scott mouthpiece Thomson towards the end of the season previous. The summer of 97 then saw us add the likes of McEwan, Wright and Van de Kamp on top of an already expensive and under achieving squad. As you rightly point out we probably still pay for this profligacy to this day.

Ah right, see what you meant now yeah. Very much agreed. Not all the players were failures as individuals but given the cost it was pretty disastrous overall.

[Rover the Moon]

Yeah I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been, we were relegated at the end of 96-97 season having signed guys like Twaddle, Browne, Duffield and John Millar (remember him?) the summer before plus we had already added Scott mouthpiece Thomson towards the end of the season previous. The summer of 97 then saw us add the likes of McEwan, Wright and Van de Kamp on top of an already expensive and under achieving squad. As you rightly point out we probably still pay for this profligacy to this day.

Ah, John Millar. Remember his glory double when we beat Hibs in the cup in 98 at Easter Road? Great day. If memory serves me right, the away end was pretty much packed for that - top and bottom tiers.

[mrpaddyx]

'96 was where it all started to go wrong, we got relegated with an overpaid but very very average team in PL terms. We then made the mistake of thinking we were a big club and chasing the dream of going straight back up the next season by throwing money at over the hill has beens such as Keith Wright and Guido van de Kamp, chancers like Kevin Twaddle and Scott Thomson (midfielder/striker, not goalie) as well as spending big on young guys like Craig McEwan and Paul Browne who was signed the year before.

Put out all that money for very little return on the pitch and you have a club in a bad way with a negative vibe about it and a lot of guys playing for us who really didn't give a shit other than about their big pay packets. After that the malaise is very difficult to shift and culminated as was said with the Anelka debacle.Thankfully we now have people in charge who run the club properly and don't confuse ambition with throwing money at things we can't afford. Mid to top of Div 1 is our natural level, anything above is a bonus IMO.

I thought Guido Van De Kamp did a decent job for us. One the better keepers we have had.

Aston Villa wanted 500k for Paul Browne, I think it it went to tribunal and we "only" had to pay 100k. Just as well as he was never better than average.

I agree that we vastly over spent after leaving the SPL. The wages were way to high and the gamble of coming back up at the first attempt back fired badly. As bad as the Anelka era was that was the start of the decline. That and the drop off in crowds. IIRC our average attendance the season after being relegated from the Premier was around 3500. The last few years its barely been in 4 figures and even a promotion push a few year back didn't seem to help. I always wonder if they have just changed the way they report attendences or have the Rovers become such as poor option compared to all the other leisure activities out there?

Sort of rambling here but I sort of look at ourselves and Kilmarnock and wonder what would have happened if we had managed to stay in the Premier League the season we both went up in 1992/93. They haven't been relegated since and are well established in the SPL albeit with a much bigger debt problem that we ever had.

[Broken Algorithms]

I agree that we vastly over spent after leaving the SPL. The wages were way to high and the gamble of coming back up at the first attempt back fired badly. As bad as the Anelka era was that was the start of the decline. That and the drop off in crowds. IIRC our average attendance the season after being relegated from the Premier was around 3500. The last few years its barely been in 4 figures and even a promotion push a few year back didn't seem to help. I always wonder if they have just changed the way they report attendences or have the Rovers become such as poor option compared to all the other leisure activities out there?

Ironically, we've probably been at nearly a similar level with more success in the cups compared to the period between 97-03 before Anelka came in. Christ, you'd have been thought mad if you'd said to someone when we'd have beaten Rangers in a Bells Cup final but such is the way football has panned out.

Overall, there are numerous reasons our numbers are down. While the product isn't exactly freeflowing, I think anyone with perspective can see that we're nearly doing as well as we can at the moment considering who are above us. Aside from this, we've got competition in the form of the Flyers. The real kick in the bollocks as far as most Scottish football teams is the fact games are so readily available. Fans can turn out for the relatively important games but for getting people out week in/week out (especially on those lovely freezing cold days where it's pishing it down) most people would rather stay in or go to the pub and catch a game on Sky. When you can watch the top flight teams or the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, they're always going to make that choice.

Even still, Kirkcaldy/Glenrothes and the surrounding areas probably should still see us pull in more fans than we do. You can probably point to the pricing and the socio-economic status of the town itself (especially when made in comparison to other areas: Kirkcaldy isn't exactly brimming with opportunity and Stark's is hardly ideal as a location) but that's a whole new area to discuss.

I'd love to see more fans turning up regularly, and hopefully we can take steps in the future to see that happen.

[mrpaddyx]

Ironically, we've probably been at nearly a similar level with more success in the cups compared to the period between 97-03 before Anelka came in. Christ, you'd have been thought mad if you'd said to someone when we'd have beaten Rangers in a Bells Cup final but such is the way football has panned out.

Overall, there are numerous reasons our numbers are down. While the product isn't exactly freeflowing, I think anyone with perspective can see that we're nearly doing as well as we can at the moment considering who are above us. Aside from this, we've got competition in the form of the Flyers. The real kick in the bollocks as far as most Scottish football teams is the fact games are so readily available. Fans can turn out for the relatively important games but for getting people out week in/week out (especially on those lovely freezing cold days where it's pishing it down) most people would rather stay in or go to the pub and catch a game on Sky. When you can watch the top flight teams or the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, they're always going to make that choice.

Even still, Kirkcaldy/Glenrothes and the surrounding areas probably should still see us pull in more fans than we do. You can probably point to the pricing and the socio-economic status of the town itself (especially when made in comparison to other areas: Kirkcaldy isn't exactly brimming with opportunity and Stark's is hardly ideal as a location) but that's a whole new area to discuss.

I'd love to see more fans turning up regularly, and hopefully we can take steps in the future to see that happen.

The explosion of TV football has definately had an impact. I'm old enough to remember a time when if there was a 3rd division game on a Wednesday night, there would be a TV blackout to protect the attendence!

Edited March 14, 2015 by mrpaddyx

[bobbykdy]

I thought Guido Van De Kamp did a decent job for us. One the better keepers we have had.

Aston Villa wanted 500k for Paul Browne, I think it it went to tribunal and we "only" had to pay 100k. Just as well as he was never better than average.

I agree that we vastly over spent after leaving the SPL. The wages were way to high and the gamble of coming back up at the first attempt back fired badly. As bad as the Anelka era was that was the start of the decline. That and the drop off in crowds. IIRC our average attendance the season after being relegated from the Premier was around 3500. The last few years its barely been in 4 figures and even a promotion push a few year back didn't seem to help. I always wonder if they have just changed the way they report attendences or have the Rovers become such as poor option compared to all the other leisure activities out there?

Sort of rambling here but I sort of look at ourselves and Kilmarnock and wonder what would have happened if we had managed to stay in the Premier League the season we both went up in 1992/93. They haven't been relegated since and are well established in the SPL albeit with a much bigger debt problem that we ever had.

I probably was a bit harsh on Guido, he did seem to care and try when he played for us, he was also one of our top earners at one point too though, that part of it not his fault I guess. Will never forget his rant in the Sun which lead to him leaving over unpaid wages, lol.

Edited March 14, 2015 by bobbykdy

[bobbykdy]

Ah, John Millar. Remember his glory double when we beat Hibs in the cup in 98 at Easter Road? Great day. If memory serves me right, the away end was pretty much packed for that - top and bottom tiers.

Millars double at ER when it was 2-1 going on 5-1 got Duffy the sack IIRC. The away end was jumping that day, we had a cracking away support through with us. Memories.

[Rovers_Lad]

grants time is up

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

Perfect opportunity to blood a few of the younger guys who will be champing at the bit for first team appearances now.

Hopefully this'll stand us in good stead for challenging Rangers for the title next season.

[Michael W]

I just hope that players who haven't performed all season will be left out and some of the younger players given a chance.

We probably all have a good idea of who should stay/go by now anyway.

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

A bit of intrigue surrounding some 'new' young players getting a chance to show what they are capable of may be the only thing that'll keep interest levels up towards the end of the season.

[roverthemoon]

Struggling to get any enthusiasm for the rest of the season. Already looking at games to miss. Suspect others will be feeling the same

[Ro Sham Bo]

Vaughan has now scored 3 goals in 4 starts this season so he should be given a run of starts until the end of the season.

Hopefully a few of the other younger lads who have been on the bench this season get some game time as well.

[basher brash]

knowing Murray ,Vaughan will be dropped for the Hearts game Stewart will walk right back in Why? Cos he runs all day ! Zola Budd could do the same run about all day and not score a goal. Hopefully Malpas has already one eye on next season and lining up some potential strikers with a bit of threat/presence upfront. This is the reason we have struggled all season and Murrays arrogance /ignorance in thinking are strikers are good enough.

Was watching the Alloa v Falkirk game last night and yet again Baird was superb at running the line a player we could have still had if we didn't dither in offering him a contract, Love him or loathe him the 2 teams we are chasing for the playoffs thought he was could enough!

Has Murray put our limited resources to good use this season in my opinion not ! to many haven't produced the goods on a consistent basis I'm afraid Stewart,Scott,Elliot,Fox, McKay back to Rangers and maybe Nade would be shown the door.

[baillieinleeds]

I agree with Basher, Murray hasn't got a clue. Our "strikers" have been ineffectual all season. He puts his faith in the tried and trusted and it hasn't worked out. I'd like to see Barr given a whole season, either beside Hill or Watson, I wouldn't be too bothered about the latter leaving in all fairness. Scott, Fox, Elliot, McKay, Stewart and Nade can all leave. Utterly useless. The season is over so it's down tools.

[roverthemoon]

Can't really argue with the players being suggested for punting. The two I'd disagree with are Watson amd Nade. We'd be a far poorer team without either, especially Watson.