The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Raith Against The Machine]

Maybe I'm going over the score here, but that interview has really wound me up. We seem to have progressed beyond "can't stand in his way" to "come and get him". 

I understand that John McGlynn prides himself on developing young players but I support a football team, not a youth academy. 

Next time we've got a decent youth prospect, I'll tell you one thing - we won't be commanding a big fee for them. A big club just needs to pick up the phone and offer "an opportunity" and we'll wave the boy off. That couldn't be further from trying to drive up the price of our young players. 

I know the cost of a transfer isn't McGlynn's department, but he's saying there that he wouldn't even want to take the chance on Tait being unsettled. It sounds like as far as the manager was concerned, he'd have accepted the first offer that came in whatever it was. 

The second half of the interview is just a weirdly defensive run-through of players who can play in midfield, for some reason. 

I trust John McGlynn. I think he's an excellent manager. But that's a dreadful message for our support to hear. All they had to do was send out someone, anyone, to say "Hibs initially made contact with us and we felt duty bound to let Dylan know. He made it very clear to us that he wanted to move, and we all recognise that at this stage of his career that makes sense. With that in mind we went back to Hibs and secured an up front cost that we were satisfied with, along with substantial add-ons that could be very lucrative for this club if Dylan goes on to become the player we all believe he can be."

It's not difficult. In fact, it's really straightforward. I was complaining about Scottish football's attitudes to its customers on the thread for the Ayr game, and to take that theme in a slightly different direction, there aren't many businesses whose customer base is actively willing them to succeed, and will forgive them almost any sin. Football supporters are - to generalise, and to include myself - really thick. You can pander to them, you can tell half-truths, you can make daft gestures, and they'll lap it all up. But the other side of that coin is that they're very easy to piss off. The easiest way is to denigrate the club they support. Try not to do that when you are that club and you'll get on much better. 

[SanStarko]

Thought that was a pretty decent interview with McGlynn.  Get what he's saying about how being seen as a club who's happy to let players move on will make us a pretty attractive team for youngsters to come to.  Just a worry that we might end being seen as soft touches to other clubs if we're happily letting our players leave without putting up much of a fight.  

 

Can only imagine the reaction of TXRover when he hears the bit about Musonda being played as a defensive mid given how much he kept mentioning it pre-season.

[Raith_Raver]

1 minute ago, SanStarko said:

Thought that was a pretty decent interview with McGlynn.  Get what he's saying about how being seen as a club who's happy to let players move on will make us a pretty attractive team for youngsters to come to.  Just a worry that we might end being seen as soft touches to other clubs if we're happily letting our players leave without putting up much of a fight. 

I disagree. What's the point of attracting young players for the benefit of other clubs.

McGlynn says the amount of transfer money is the boards' job not his but he is defending the board while it depletes his team which IS his job.

[SanStarko]

6 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said:

I disagree. What's the point of attracting young players for the benefit of other clubs.

McGlynn says the amount of transfer money is the boards' job not his but he is defending the board while it depletes his team which IS his job.

I never said I agreed or disagreed with the approach the club are taking, just that I understand what he was saying about it helping us bring in more youngsters.  

But really, unless one of us wins big on the Euromillions then to an extent we're always going to bringing through players that end up benefiting other clubs.

[renton]

4 minutes ago, SanStarko said:

I never said I agreed or disagreed with the approach the club are taking, just that I understand what he was saying about it helping us bring in more youngsters.  

But really, unless one of us wins big on the Euromillions then to an extent we're always going to bringing through players that end up benefiting other clubs.

Extent is one thing. Offering all of the resistance to first lousy offers of an egg in front of a steam roller is another.

[Frank conner]

When Mcglynn started going on about Vaughan and the boy at Hearts who got injured and missed his big move you got the feeling he was worried that could happen to Tait. 

Unfortunately things like that can happen but you can't think like that I just gives the impression if a bigger club came in for a player all that club has to do is say sell now or he might get injured. 

[SirJimmyofNic]

Like it or not, until we are an established Championship club, we will always be bringing young talent through and selling them on, we dont have a large enough fan base at this time to keep the club financialy sound without doing that

Its not ideal but thats they way the cookie crumbles as they say 

[Are we there yet?]

Reality check time for a bunch of folks on here. The advantage of progressing the careers of great young players is that more are likely to see the Rovers as a stepping step to the Premiership and beyond. And they will be advised by agents and parents to join us because we benefit from them playing, they benefit from showing what they can do and we get money for young guys that are not yet the finished product. And we will celebrate the fact that they can go onto great careers with bigger teams. We are not yet a premiership club and we have to continue to generate income to fund our progress.  Guys choose us over Dunfermline from the Fife Elite team because they see that they get the opportunities here.

Look at Peterborough and Brentford, two clubs who bring in players of potential to sell on and generate the income to supplement the squad and pay for the continued development of the squad and other young guys coming in. And Brentford are in the Premier now.  If our business model is bring in great  young players with potential for £100,000+ every year to supplement our budgets then this is excellent way to fund the club and keep us moving forward.  We need to be picking up the young guys with potential who are at clubs where they dont get a chance and bring them here...tie them up on 3-4 year contracts and expect to be able to sell them after a year or two. Shorter contracts and they walk for free. 

Sure I want a team of stars who fulfil their potential here at the Rovers but I would rather have a steady stream of young guys who make us money and allow us to bring in more experienced players who will hang around. We all remember young guys with potential who ran out of stream here over a couple of seasons and were released.  

We will always be a selling club and this should be something to be applauded. If we are seen as a selling club because we can develop great young players and still continue to progress then thats a great outcome. Money plus a sell on fee from someone who's been here a couple of years is a good bit of business IMO.

In answer to one of the above posts...the point of attracting players here to unltimately benefit other clubs is that for a couple of years effort we get £100,000+ and sell on fees. That helps keep our club solvent and alive! Whats the point of not bringing them in and being prepared to sell them on if another club can do the same? 

And no I'm not a Director and no, I'm not connected with the club, I'm just a long time supporter who many years ago had my heart broken when Brewster choose Dundee United over us for his next move! For no money. That was harder to take than it is to celebrate seeing someone like Dylan move on because we gave him his chance to shine. And I'm so happy about that I'm increasing my monthly amount to the development fund because my investment has helped the club make over £100,000 from his transfer.  

COYR

Edited September 2, 2021 by Are we there yet?

[Raith_Raver]

What McGlynn has admitted, intentionally or not, is that Rovers are developing young players to further their careers at bigger clubs. In effect, we're running a football charity.

[renton]

3 minutes ago, Are we there yet? said:

Reality check time for a bunch of folks on here. The advantage of progressing the careers of great young players is that more are likely to see the Rovers as a stepping step to the Premiership and beyond. And they will be advised by agents and parents to join us because we benefit from them playing, they benefit from showing what they can do and we get money for young guys that are not yet the finished product. And we will celebrate the fact that they can go onto great careers with bigger teams. We are not yet a premiership club and we have to continue to generate income to fund our progress.  Guys choose us over Dunfermline from the Fife Elite team because they see that they get the opportunities here.

Look at Peterborough and Brentford, two clubs who bring in players of potential to sell on and generate the income to supplement the squad and pay for the continued development of the squad and other young guys coming in. And Brentford are in the Premier now.  If our business model is bring in great  young players with potential for £100,000+ every year to supplement our budgets then this is excellent way to fund the club and keep us moving forward.  We need to be picking up the young guys with potential who are at clubs where they dont get a chance and bring them here...tie them up on 3-4 year contracts and expect to be able to sell them after a year or two. Shorter contracts and they walk for free. 

Sure I want a team of stars who fulfil their potential here at the Rovers but I would rather have a steady stream of young guys who make us money and allow us to bring in more experienced players who will hang around. We all remember young guys with potential who ran out of stream here over a couple of seasons and were released.  

We will always be a selling club and this should be something to be applauded. If we are seen as a selling club because we can develop great young players and still continue to progress then thats a great outcome. Money plus a sell on fee from someone who's been here a couple of years is a good bit of business IMO.

In answer to one of the above posts...the point of attracting players here to unltimately benefit other clubs is that for a couple of years effort we get £100,000+ and sell on fees. That helps keep our club solvent and alive! Whats the point of not bringing them in and being prepared to sell them on if another club can do the same? 

And no I'm not a Director and no, I'm not connected with the club, I'm just a long time supporter who many years ago had my heart broken with Brewster choose Dundee United over us for his next move! For no money. That was harder to take than it is to celebrate seeing someone like Dylan move on because we gave him his chance to shine. And I'm so happy about that I'm increasing my monthly amount to the development fund because my investment has helped the club make over £100,000 from his transfer.  

COYR

It's the 'still progress bit' I have an issue with. The core of last year's side has been dismantled, particularly in midfield. 

McGlynn will be running twice as fast just to stand still. Then, he has a huge rebuilding job to do in January, which is never a great window anyway.

.... and it's not like anyone was thinking Tait wasn't going to move on eventually. Yet, where was the harm in telling Tait to be patient, keep playing well and get a move in the Summer, when we could have commanded at least a similar fee if not better had Tait fulfilled some of his potential, and allowed McGlynn a Summer to budget for and replace him.

We took the first interested party, in the dying hours of the transfer window, and dropped our keks for them. After a Summer of chat about ambition, to simply repeat the same short sighted thinking that left us without Callachan is inexcusable.

If we are simply to be a clearing house for talented kids, then tell us. Don't give us pish about ambition and progress when that requires slightly longer than thinking two hours ahead.

[TxRover]

41 minutes ago, SanStarko said:

 Can only imagine the reaction of TXRover when he hears the bit about Musonda being played as a defensive mid given how much he kept mentioning it pre-season.

Well that confirms the speculation of moving Frankie to a sweeper or DM role, if he can play his way into the pitch.

Sounds like £100-110k figure is confirmed by JMcG. His point about no assurance of offers in January is valid, but a little defensive. Perhaps the last minute offer had a sweetener in the addons?

I’m not overly impressed by the sale of Dylan, but it does seem that we are successfully attracting young talent to sign with us, so perhaps JMcG is onto something.

 

Now, back to Frankie at Sweeper/DM…that allows Matthews and Spencer to play as with Hendry behind our front three. Not terrible, but it seems we’re short of midfield roles for BRS/Tait if that happens…does that suggest Frankie is out a while longer?

[CALDERON]

59 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

Maybe I'm going over the score here, but that interview has really wound me up. We seem to have progressed beyond "can't stand in his way" to "come and get him". 

I understand that John McGlynn prides himself on developing young players but I support a football team, not a youth academy. 

Next time we've got a decent youth prospect, I'll tell you one thing - we won't be commanding a big fee for them. A big club just needs to pick up the phone and offer "an opportunity" and we'll wave the boy off. That couldn't be further from trying to drive up the price of our young players. 

I know the cost of a transfer isn't McGlynn's department, but he's saying there that he wouldn't even want to take the chance on Tait being unsettled. It sounds like as far as the manager was concerned, he'd have accepted the first offer that came in whatever it was. 

The second half of the interview is just a weirdly defensive run-through of players who can play in midfield, for some reason. 

I trust John McGlynn. I think he's an excellent manager. But that's a dreadful message for our support to hear. All they had to do was send out someone, anyone, to say "Hibs initially made contact with us and we felt duty bound to let Dylan know. He made it very clear to us that he wanted to move, and we all recognise that at this stage of his career that makes sense. With that in mind we went back to Hibs and secured an up front cost that we were satisfied with, along with substantial add-ons that could be very lucrative for this club if Dylan goes on to become the player we all believe he can be."

It's not difficult. In fact, it's really straightforward. I was complaining about Scottish football's attitudes to its customers on the thread for the Ayr game, and to take that theme in a slightly different direction, there aren't many businesses whose customer base is actively willing them to succeed, and will forgive them almost any sin. Football supporters are - to generalise, and to include myself - really thick. You can pander to them, you can tell half-truths, you can make daft gestures, and they'll lap it all up. But the other side of that coin is that they're very easy to piss off. The easiest way is to denigrate the club they support. Try not to do that when you are that club and you'll get on much better. 

Yeah, this really.  I personally think  we need to building a team around our young players.  

This very very rarely happens, but I found myself shaking my head through most of that interview.

I get how passionate Mcglynn is about bringing young players through and seeing them developing, but we are a football club in our own right first and foremost.  Rolling over because we don't want to offend a player really does not sit well with me.  If players come and go like that then we won't get the benefit from them longer term.  Great for a youth development centre, but for a club with Premiership ambitions?

Really, really disappointed with that - and I'm sorry to say, with John McGlynn.

Edited September 2, 2021 by CALDERON

[Broken Algorithms]

A lot to digest from that interview but almoat nothing to justify selling our best young talent who was tied down on a long term contract upon the basis he might get injured or unsettled.

I get that we want to have a reputation for young players that they can come to Raith and that they'll get the game time and potentially move into a larger club who can offer early stage continental football. That's lovely for the players but surely we should then be being a bit more thorough and trying to drive the price up rather than taking the first bid we get.

We're currently sitting hugely in speculative territory. Musonda was excellent at times last season at centre half but we're looking at a stockpile of defensive midfielders. In all honesty, I'd rather we started to give Aaron Arnott a chance moving forwards: I'd rather that than some half arsed loanee we're developing for some other club (and I'm not referring to Tait when I say this).

Since the Aberdeen game, its been a tidal wave of negative news. Its tedious as f**k. Its hard enough when you've folk slaughter the social media but it doesn't help when the club do decisions like this.

I fully trust in McGlynn to do us well but it feels very much like we've reached a "ceiling moment" where we're expected to know our role in the game and its brutal. We watch clubs like Dundee and Livingston stroll into the top flight after financial calamities. You've got the likes of Ross County bankroll their way in. Meanwhile, we're toiling away selling youth players at the first opportunity because we might upset them.

There are a lot of good things which have happened with the club over the last few years but it's really frustrating at the moment.

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Look at it another way we brought Nisbet on, an to a certain extent brought Hendry on and got hee haw for them 

We got Nisbet BECAUSE we offered a release if not promoted clause at his choice. We had Hendry and probably lost the chance to ship him for cash because of COVID.

Edited September 2, 2021 by TxRover

[Raith Against The Machine]

Obviously we're a selling club, nobody's denying that. But part of being a selling club is selling well. Otherwise you're a giving away club. 

[RandomGuy.]

I imagine you're in the some spot as us, in that while the initial fee looks low, it becomes mega due to the sell on clause.

Widely rumoured we get 25% of McCanns next fee, which in English money could double or treble the initial amount.

I'd assume you've accepted a lower initial fee to get a larger sell on clause, something clubs don't like making public, ad Hibs history of developing/selling young players is great. If you've got 25% and they sell him for £5m, which is roughly what they're wanting for Porteous/Doig/Nisbet, then his fee, plus clauses etc., could top £1.5m

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I imagine you're in the some spot as us, in that while the initial fee looks low, it becomes mega due to the sell on clause.

Widely rumoured we get 25% of McCanns next fee, which in English money could double or treble the initial amount.

I'd assume you've accepted a lower initial fee to get a larger sell on clause, something clubs don't like making public, ad Hibs history of developing/selling young players is great. If you've got 25% and they sell him for £5m, which is roughly what they're wanting for Porteous/Doig/Nisbet, then his fee, plus clauses etc., could top £1.5m

Which is exactly why we can’t judge this deal accurately.

12 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Yeah, this really.  I personally think  we need to building a team around our young players.

And the point was we will attract the better young players because we offer a good window for them. We will lose some, but I bet more stay and form our next nucleus.

[Wardy]

I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad way of running the club, bringing in the youth and selling them on for profit. It only takes one season to get up to the Premier league. Then keeping hold of younger talent becomes a bit easier, but the transfer fee’s will of course go up as well. Take St. Johnstone for example making 1.6m for 2 players. Yes those fans aren’t happy either and rightly so. But that’s what happens when smaller clubs do get a bit of success….and without a wealthy benefactor pumping millions into a football club, it’s just always going to be that way. 

[Ding Dang Doo]

If McGlynn isn't able to use the money to reinvest in the team in January then the question has to be asked to the board as to where it is going. If it needs to go elsewhere then most fans would accept it probably if the board were open and honest with the fan base.

What I think is getting more fans annoyed here is the complete contraction between the clubs words and actions.

[TxRover]

Reading more of the Hibs coverage, it looks like Dylan is a signing for development next year and beyond, with no easy slot for him to fill for now. Several references to him being loaned back until “at least” January…so we may see Tait the whole season if Hibs are happy with his development at Raith. and still don’t have a spot for him as a starter.