The New Raith Rovers Thread

[McGuigan1978]

I wasn't at the AGM, so only going on the wee bits of odds and sods that are getting put up online, but there's a couple of things I'm struggling to get my head around. 

Is this £300,000 to £400,000 loss also including the money from the Rangers game, or does the monies from that not come in till later and so aren't included?

I've said before that I think the wage bill is pretty big, (some chat on here about being the lowest in the league, my goodness, I honestly reckon our top five wage earners would earn more than Hamilton's starting XI put together) but surely it can't be so big we'd potentially post a £600,000 to £700,000 loss? Fair play if so though!

As for Karen McCartney being blamed for a big chunk of where we are just now, I find that very convenient considering she's no longer part of the club. I suspect the current board members need to have a bit more self reflection around their failings, rather than pointing their fingers elsewhere. 

In terms of the new faces coming in, I'm tentatively encouraged, but the devil is in the detail. John Potter is never a manager, that's clear, but I didn't think for a minute that's why he was coming along to be honest. 

As for Kelty's current league position being a barometer of their talents, that's not even remotely relevant.

Kelty's signing policy completely changed in the summer, from bringing in established players who were far too good for League Two/Lowland League etc, to pretty much shutting the wallet when they reached League One. 

Kevin Thompson said last season that he'd need investment again to be competitive in the third tier, and he was right. I'd argue they actually have a weaker squad this time around. Max Kucheryiavi went back to St Johnstone, Kieran Ngwenya went back to Aberdeen and Thomas Reilly left for Darvel. No-one came in last summer that was a name that said, "why has he rocked up in a Fife village team?" 

Putting two and two together, Dean McKenzie has been wanting out for a while, and wasn't prepared to spend money on the team this season, which Thompson would have been aware of and decided it wasn't for him. If McKenzie had been keen to stay, I've no doubt things would have been different and they'd be far higher in the League One table. That said, even if Kelty had been sitting third, that doesn't make them any more or less likely to have success with ourselves. 

So aye, I'm reasonably encouraged, and I'm thoroughly looking forward to the 10% discount on a conservatory with the season ticket. 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Is this £300,000 to £400,000 loss also including the money from the Rangers game, or does the monies from that not come in till later and so aren't included?

The Rangers game (quoted as bringing in over £200K) will be included in next years books.

[Specky Ginger]

Sim said the projected loss for 22/23 was between 300 and 400k.

I asked him if this included the Rangers game and he said yes - in other words it would have been in excess of 500k without that game.

Obviously the 22/23 accounts will be the ones to be discussed and approved at next year's AGM.

 

[roverthemoon]

Using Karen McCartney as cover is classic Sim deflection - always blame someone else. He’s been the sole decision maker at the club for years now so every single non-football bad decision is his. 

From every report I’ve head Karen McCartney was an absolute clusterfuck, but her being hired and allowed to wreck havoc lies directly with Sim. The notion that Karen McCartney was nothing to do with him is ludicrous.

 

[roverthemoon]

5 minutes ago, Specky Ginger said:

Sim said the projected loss for 22/23 was between 300 and 400k.

I asked him if this included the Rangers game and he said yes - in other words it would have been in excess of 500k without that game.

Obviously the 22/23 accounts will be the ones to be discussed and approved at next year's AGM.

 

The figures are horrendous. If it had been a local carpet fitter/butcher/builder who’d come in and posted figures like that they’d be getting slated. The fact that it’s someone who made his money in the finance and accountancy world and is supposed to understand prudence and governance. The mind boggles.

[Enigma]

16 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Using Karen McCartney as cover is classic Sim deflection - always blame someone else. He’s been the sole decision maker at the club for years now so every single non-football bad decision is his. 

From every report I’ve head Karen McCartney was an absolute clusterfuck, but her being hired and allowed to wreck havoc lies directly with Sim. The notion that Karen McCartney was nothing to do with him is ludicrous.

 

I believe it was Bill Clarke’s decision to bring Karen in initially, but Sim made her CEO.

Part of the problem with Karen (and just the running of the football club in general), aside from her general ineptitude at being CEO of a football club, is a what seems to be a complete lack of oversight at the club. Nobody was holding her (or her husband and the then manger) to account and from what I’ve heard from the AGM player contracts were being handed out willy-nilly with clauses in them that are limiting what we could do in the transfer maker last summer, and what we’ll be able to do this summer. The situation also helped to create the positive feedback loop which allowed Goodwillie to happen. The issue though is lack of oversight. Sim reels off these issues as if he is a simple bystander and somehow not the owner with complete power to do whatever the f**k he likes, that he is. Thankfully I think/hope that will all be changing once we have the new team in place and they can get on with actually running a football club, not a circus.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Enigma

[Rover the Moon]

Still lots of loans outstanding in the club’s accounts. Be interested to see if these are paid off by the new group to try and wipe the slate clean.

[Specky Ginger]

6 minutes ago, Rover the Moon said:

Still lots of loans outstanding in the club’s accounts. Be interested to see if these are paid off by the new group to try and wipe the slate clean.

There were proposals passed at the AGM to convert loans into equity (shares).

[leomessi1984]

45 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

I wasn't at the AGM, so only going on the wee bits of odds and sods that are getting put up online, but there's a couple of things I'm struggling to get my head around. 

Is this £300,000 to £400,000 loss also including the money from the Rangers game, or does the monies from that not come in till later and so aren't included?

I've said before that I think the wage bill is pretty big, (some chat on here about being the lowest in the league, my goodness, I honestly reckon our top five wage earners would earn more than Hamilton's starting XI put together) but surely it can't be so big we'd potentially post a £600,000 to £700,000 loss? Fair play if so though!

As for Karen McCartney being blamed for a big chunk of where we are just now, I find that very convenient considering she's no longer part of the club. I suspect the current board members need to have a bit more self reflection around their failings, rather than pointing their fingers elsewhere. 

In terms of the new faces coming in, I'm tentatively encouraged, but the devil is in the detail. John Potter is never a manager, that's clear, but I didn't think for a minute that's why he was coming along to be honest. 

As for Kelty's current league position being a barometer of their talents, that's not even remotely relevant.

Kelty's signing policy completely changed in the summer, from bringing in established players who were far too good for League Two/Lowland League etc, to pretty much shutting the wallet when they reached League One. 

Kevin Thompson said last season that he'd need investment again to be competitive in the third tier, and he was right. I'd argue they actually have a weaker squad this time around. Max Kucheryiavi went back to St Johnstone, Kieran Ngwenya went back to Aberdeen and Thomas Reilly left for Darvel. No-one came in last summer that was a name that said, "why has he rocked up in a Fife village team?" 

Putting two and two together, Dean McKenzie has been wanting out for a while, and wasn't prepared to spend money on the team this season, which Thompson would have been aware of and decided it wasn't for him. If McKenzie had been keen to stay, I've no doubt things would have been different and they'd be far higher in the League One table. That said, even if Kelty had been sitting third, that doesn't make them any more or less likely to have success with ourselves. 

So aye, I'm reasonably encouraged, and I'm thoroughly looking forward to the 10% discount on a conservatory with the season ticket. 

From a Kelty fan you're spot on here. Dean did allow John to make some solid signings, Martin etc, but not the stellar names for the level we'd seen over the previous years.

I think you've won a watch. Potter & Barrowman behind the scenes will be great. Murray is a decent manager & Dean will generate funds and ensure some good players come through the door.

They have grown Kelty from the ground up. Yes, we spent money on players but the infrastructure has also been installed. I've a soft spot for Raith so hope it goes well! A new chapter for us now.

[Michael W]

38 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Using Karen McCartney as cover is classic Sim deflection - always blame someone else. He’s been the sole decision maker at the club for years now so every single non-football bad decision is his. 

From every report I’ve head Karen McCartney was an absolute clusterfuck, but her being hired and allowed to wreck havoc lies directly with Sim. The notion that Karen McCartney was nothing to do with him is ludicrous.

 

Control of the club is within the hands of one man, who abdicates responsibility for it entirely and then complains when it's a total mess. A complete lack of awareness and all the more staggering considering the man's professional background. 

[roverthemoon]

34 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I believe it was Bill Clarke’s decision to bring Karen in initially, but Sim made her CEO.

Part of the problem with Karen (and just the running of the football club in general), aside from her general ineptitude at being CEO of a football club, is a what seems to be a complete lack of oversight at the club. Nobody was holding her (or her husband and the then manger) to account and from what I’ve heard from the AGM player contracts were being handed out willy-nilly with clauses in them that are limiting what we could do in the transfer maker last summer, and what we’ll be able to do this summer. The situation also helped to create the positive feedback loop which allowed Goodwillie to happen. The issue though is lack of oversight. Sim reels off these issues as if he is a simple bystander and somehow not the owner with complete power to do whatever the f**k he likes, that he is. Thankfully I think/hope that will all be changing once we have the new team in place and they can get on with actually running a football club, not a circus.

Hiring the assistant managers wife and making her CEO was never going to end well. Clear conflict of interest even if she had been an extremely capable individual - which from reports was the last thing she was. 

Hope you’re right about the general direction.  I’m feeling relatively positive about if it gives us better governance and sounder decision making. More based on hope than evidence at the minute, but at Rovers hope is sometimes the only thing you have. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by roverthemoon

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, roverthemoon said:

Using Karen McCartney as cover is classic Sim deflection - always blame someone else. He’s been the sole decision maker at the club for years now so every single non-football bad decision is his. 

From every report I’ve head Karen McCartney was an absolute clusterfuck, but her being hired and allowed to wreck havoc lies directly with Sim. The notion that Karen McCartney was nothing to do with him is ludicrous.

 

He went to great pains to inform everyone that he wasn't allowed to travel for 2 years due to Covid rules, so you can understand how he never knew/was responsible for what was going on.

[Michael W]

9 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

He went to great pains to inform everyone that he wasn't allowed to travel for 2 years due to Covid rules, so you can understand how he never knew/was responsible for what was going on.

Maybe his Zoom/Teams/Skype were broken for two years as well. 

That she was allowed to proceed, apparently undetected, in doing nothing/incurring consultancy fees for zero input is a serious management and control weakness within the club. It's been run like a school tuck shop. 

[Raithfan2711]

Agree that Sim and the Board should have undertaken better due diligence before hiring McCartney.

Make no mistake, she was a complete disaster on every level and is to blame for quite a few holes the club is in right now. 

She hired staff that were a failure, ruined relationships with key volunteers, mismanaged the people who were/are employees, wasted money on needless projects/consultants/contracts, lied to our main sponsor, and has overseen a number of PR and commercial disasters that we are still paying for to this day and beyond.

The people who are helping now are at least trying to steady the ship, and I really hope the new blood can get us back to a profit.

My only real concern is that I hope the new people don’t just steamroll in and start all these new projects without doing some scoping first. Based on what I’ve heard, this was McCartney’s biggest flaw (of many). The club’s volunteers/staff have put such an amazing effort into doing good things and I’m sure they have brilliant ideas to help. For gods sake, give them an ear and a chance when you get in the door. It appears from the outside that their dedication and commitment is unreal and I am willing to bet they also have professional experience of their own in their working lives that would also be of value. They’ve probably not been listened to for a while.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Raithfan2711

[roverthemoon]

1 hour ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

He went to great pains to inform everyone that he wasn't allowed to travel for 2 years due to Covid rules, so you can understand how he never knew/was responsible for what was going on.

If only there was technology that allowed people to keep in touch some way during a pandemic. Unfortunately  humans haven’t developed it. One day. 

[Ro Sham Bo]

All these folk rightly criticising Sim for the McCartney shambles yet somehow they think that he's suddenly capable of making the right decision when it comes to getting the village idiots from West Fife in. 

It's just one disaster after another with him and this will be no different. 

[leomessi1984]

2 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

All these folk rightly criticising Sim for the McCartney shambles yet somehow they think that he's suddenly capable of making the right decision when it comes to getting the village idiots from West Fife in. 

It's just one disaster after another with him and this will be no different. 

What's your beef with Kelty?

[Broken Algorithms]

Did nobody mention the huge elephant in the room of MacCartney being in a relationship with our assistant manager at the time? Pretty sure that once that one came out everyone looking in felt she'd been given the role thanks to nepotism and that there was an absurd conflict of interest.

[R.R.FC]

Let’s be honest nobody has any idea how this turns out. I’m quietly optimistic but I’m a self confessed happy clapper and don’t blame anyone who is cautious or concerned about the change.

In my view, obviously the reason Kelty are where they are is because of the huge investment in the playing squad and the huge advantage that gave them compared to the other sides in the Lowland League and League Two. Even with some financial investment from this group, they won’t have the money required to achieve success that way with us.

However, it is also clear that Kelty have made huge strides off the field as a club in the last few years. Probably not enough to be a League One club in their own right but the infrastructure they have compared to when McKenzie took over is night and day with excellent community engagement so I am hopeful this group has more to their plans than simply chucking money at the playing squad. I think they have enough about them to improve us off the field, particularly our commercial side which is miles away from where it should be.

On another note, this is probably common knowledge but I had no idea that John Potter was the younger brother of Coca Cola Cup hero, Brian Potter.

[Beastie Russell]

12 hours ago, Michael W said:

It's not as if the club is under the total control of a man that ran a global accountancy firm or anything like that. Unbelievable. 

 

Even then, take away that Rangers game and we're into -£500k territory. 

That is appalling. How can the budgeting for the season have been so wrong? 

I’d heard if we had won the Scottish Cup the bonuses the players had in their contracts would have bankrupted the club

Mrs Smith was either out of control, out of depth or gave the previous manager free reign