The New Raith Rovers Thread

[renton]

22 minutes ago, Michael W said:

It's probably only fair to point out that a run of bad results in dead rubbers was what saw Grant Murray get sacked. I don't think we should do the same again, but we are not doing ourselves any good with this run. In particular, some of our out of contract players are not exactly doing themselves any favours. 

On Brad Spencer, I have exactly the same feeling as @Hank Scorpio. I have absolutely no basis for it at all, but it just feels like he'll be off. He hasn't been at his best in the latter part if the season, but there is definitely more there and he's exactly the kind of player that will probably have offers elsewhere. I wouldn't be pushing the boat out to keep him given that I expect our budget will be going down rather than up, and four of our under contract players are usually injured and emergency cover will inevitably be required at some point. 

The dead rubbers might have been the final straw but it was really the run through the back half of 13/14 that did for Grant Murray. He didn't have any credit in the bank at that point.  After that he was only a sustained bad run away from the shit. 14/15 he did enough through most of the season to keep him going.

[Jilted John]

Murray will be here next season, even if we lose the next two. The last thing we need now is even more upheaval. 
 

Id be happy to part ways with Spencer, he was a pivotal player alongside Hendry but hasn’t really kicked on this season. Maybe Brown being a defensive midfielder hasn’t helped his game.

Connolly is another that’s hardly broken a sweat in the last couple of months. I wonder if he’s decided it’s time to move on? He’s gone from one of our most pivotal players to being pretty much anonymous.

[Michael W]

11 minutes ago, renton said:

The dead rubbers might have been the final straw but it was really the run through the back half of 13/14 that did for Grant Murray. He didn't have any credit in the bank at that point.  After that he was only a sustained bad run away from the shit. 14/15 he did enough through most of the season to keep him going.

That's true.

Still remember the usual dribbling pundits saying it was outrageous we sacked him less than a year after winning the Ramsden's, conveniently forgetting we weren't far off being relegated that season. The cup win probably saved his job. 

[RRFC_Liam]

Tbf to Murray he did come in a bit later than what a manager normally would because of Airdrie playoffs and holidays etc but when he was appointed he had to scramble about to get players as in and it was difficult look at what the pars and ex Peterhead boss said about the transfer market. 
 

and with some things out the clubs/managers control he didn’t really get the players he wanted (except Easton, Brown and Millen) as it been said/reported players didn’t want to come because of relocation and with us playing on Astro all of that on top of a rumoured a lesser budget. 
 

Aye some of his tactics/in game management has been poor but that  also comes down to the players as well for the “soft” mentality…. Aye the injury situation is questionable and I hope Murray does know what it is causing it, but im willing to give him this summer and with the semi takeover and better equipped to see who he brings in and what we do in the first quarter before wanting him to kept or gone but that’s just me though 

Edited April 22, 2023 by RRFC_Liam

[CrossgatesCynic]

Christ, there really is a reactionary mentality with Rovers fans, eh? The ‘failed’ investment the other night & now some folk feeling the need to question whether or not they’d be happy with Murray being in charge at the start of next season.

I’ll be happy enough to judge Murray when he’s had a full summer to assemble (to the best of the club’s ability) a squad he’s happy with. Certainly, one he’s happy to label as his own. There’s very little doubt his efforts will likely be hampered by a restricted budget etc. but teams throughout the division will largely all be doing likewise I reckon.

When the Murray Plan A works, it really works. I’d like to see him have a Plan B he can turn to when needed though. Instead of just rinsing & repeating the life out of Plan A when it clearly isn’t working. He’s got good ideas about how to play the game, he talks a good game & let’s face it, there’s hardly a wealth of talented (realistic) managerial targets out there in any case. Folk just need to calm down. See these last couple of games for what they are & reset for the League Cup campaign.

[TxRover]

OK, where is the money in this squad? MacDonald, almost certainly one of the higher earners…Spencer, probably pretty well paid too…perhaps Ross, Stanton, Connolly and Gullan on JMcG’s specials…Lang probably a decent packet (no Kenneth, not that)…Thomson probably decent since he coaches too…Matthews perhaps, maybe Dick?

Average contracts, likely Brown, Easton, Millen.

Who is cheap? Mitchell, Arnott, Young, Masson, McNeil, Mahady and perhaps McBride and Nolan.

So, if we presume the spending is to be broadly in line with this year, who do we let move on and who is worth their pay to retain, knowing it costs us part of another player?

Gullan, Matthews, Ross and Stanton are all under contract, and all but Stanton are likely unmovable due to lack of performance or injury. Spencer seems to be not taking up the player option, so I’d see Murray considering taking the 1.5 players he likely represents and shopping to replace him. Connolly seems favored by IM, but he hasn’t signed yet…so that either another 1.5 players or Connolly back (does IM see McGill as a possible budget replacement for Connolly, with more versatility?). Millen, Brown and Easton are all IM’s boys and under contract.

Young, Masson and Mitchell all seem likely to get contracts, Arnott is a toss up, but under contract and probably worth the small cost to try out given the flashes we’ve seen rather than trying to release. Nolan seems a good bet as at least a third CB for next year, but Lang may have sealed his departure with injury woes and a rash streak. Likewise, Dick is versatile but it depends how much he wants. Mahady is likely gone, but McBride seems to have IM’s favor.

So, knowing who IM likes, will we see a move to a 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-3-2, using Brown in his strongest role and bolstering the attack? If so, the starting CB’s are critical, and if Lang leaves, IM needs 2, even if he plans to start Nolan. He also needs to address the LB question and the backup to RB (Masson?). After that, the primary need is still a competent striker.

If Connolly and Spencer leave, that’s a decent budget for a couple of attackers, and if Lang and MacDonald go, there’s the pot for CB’s. With Thomson and McNeil at keeper, we’re not as strong as the last couple of years, but…if we keep MacDonald, can we afford Thomson (perhaps, because of the coaching role…which may cheapen Thomson’s cost, and helps Thomson by providing a work location near his other jobs and provides a professional role to burnish his image) and McNeil?

Edited April 22, 2023 by TxRover

[CALDERON]

Murray will be in charge next season, and rightly so.

However, the current form his really bad, and certainly wont help shift season tickets.  Really big summer ahead.

[RRFC_Liam]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

OK, where is the money in this squad? MacDonald, almost certainly one of the higher earners…Spencer, probably pretty well paid too…perhaps Ross, Stanton, Connolly and Gullan on JMcG’s specials…Lang probably a decent packet (no Kenneth, not that)…Thomson probably decent since he coaches too…Matthews perhaps, maybe Dick?

Looks highly likely that Both Spencer and Lang are gonny be leaving in the summer, Dick will probably be away as well so that’s 3 sets of wages saved up and goes towards another 3 players or 4 if someone younger comes in and plus not everyone is guaranteed to get offered/renew contracts so that could also be put towards players we just have wait and what happens in a few weeks time 

[Specky Ginger]

To those who are at best indifferent towards Jamie MacDonald - Premiership Ross County had Ross Laidlaw in goals today and Ross Munro on the bench. If either of those two rocked up at Stark's Park next season as replacements for Jamie MacDonald, would you see it as a step forward?

 

Me neither.

 

However, if Falkirk make it up through the playoffs, I see them trying to entice MacDonald as McGlynn is a big fan and the guy they have just now looks rank rotten.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Specky Ginger

[TxRover]

13 minutes ago, Specky Ginger said:

To those who are at best indifferent towards Jamie MacDonald - Premiership Ross County had Ross Laidlaw in goals today and Ross Munro on the bench. If either of those two rocked up at Stark's Park next season as replacements for Jamie MacDonald, would you see it as a step forward?

 

Me neither.

Here’s the thing, we have Thomson and McNeil as well. That’s two decent salaries and a small one. If we have to let one of McDonald or Thomson go, who is better to let leave? Thomson is 7 years younger and doubles as our Goalkeeper Coach. Is Thomson as good a keeper as MacDonald, probably not, but he’s good for another several years and has so far done an excellent job training McNeil, so that’s worth continuing, plus he’s been perfectly acceptable in spot coverage for MacDonald.

Is McNeil ready to start, hard to say. It’s possible he could be ready, but there would be hiccups…we’d really like to see him get time somewhere, but finding a spot to get keeper starts is very difficult outwith emergency loans. Regardless, we want to keep McNeil and I suspect IM sees him as the starter within a year or two, after all, he is now 22.

McNeil is under contract…Thomson probably gives a discount because Kirkcaldy works well for his coaching outside the Rovers, but is out of contract…MacDonald is out of contract too.

IM needs to shape “his” team, he needs to buy some players, for that he needs some playing space and money. I suspect he believes that McNeil is an acceptable number 2, and that he will let one of Thomson or MacDonald go. MacDonald leaving makes more sense than Thomson. I wouldn’t bet against MacDonald at Falkirk next year.

[Mr.Blue]

I was impressed by Raith yesterday. Genuinely think they had the better of open play and played some really good stuff. Lacked any real threat going forward but the same could be said for us. 

Was the boy Stanton injured? 

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, Mr.Blue said:

I was impressed by Raith yesterday. Genuinely think they had the better of open play and played some really good stuff. Lacked any real threat going forward but the same could be said for us. 

Was the boy Stanton injured? 

Partner went into labour Saturday morning.

[Hank Scorpio]

Based on absolutely nothing other than feeling, I think Spencer will sign for Partick Thistle. 

[Hank Scorpio]

Tom Lang is a real conundrum, eh? On his day is as good as any centre half in the Championship. Strong, great distribution and quick but seems incapable of going longer than a game and a half without making some sort of massive, game defining error. I don’t think it would be sensible going into next season potentially keeping all of the back 4 who have struggled badly this year. I think we will try to retain Liam Dick and Millen is already signed, meaning a choice between Nolan or Lang - probably as third choice centre half. Right now, I’m leaning toward Nolan. 
 

I should add, I’d happily keep Lang but there would need to be a genuine concerted effort to reduce the errors in his game. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Hank Scorpio

[Raithfan2711]

Can’t believe there is even a debate about MacDonald. I’ve been to nearly every single game and I’ve seen every game Thomson and McNeil have played in this season - MacDonald is light years ahead of them both both as a keeper and as a solid defensive presence during a match. There is also talk of his distribution, which kind of baffles me, because his is easily the best of the 3.

McNeil isn’t ready. 

Neither of the other two are making that save in yesterday’s highlights from the corner right now.

We are losing goals because Millen rarely even jumps, Lang is rash, Nolan follows the ball and Dick isn’t good enough to be in a top Championship defence (Berra hid this fact because of his abilities). 

[CrossgatesCynic]

All the chat over the defence is fine but, for me, the priority issue remains bringing in a competent out & out number nine.

Improving the defence will be grand, sure. But to what effort, if we’re still looking at far too much pressure on midfielders/wide forwards to be grabbing goals because there’s nobody else to do it?

[Scary Bear]

13 minutes ago, CrossgatesCynic said:

All the chat over the defence is fine but, for me, the priority issue remains bringing in a competent out & out number nine.

Improving the defence will be grand, sure. But to what effort, if we’re still looking at far too much pressure on midfielders/wide forwards to be grabbing goals because there’s nobody else to do it?

I agree. Defence could do with getting better at defending high balls into the box, but that apart the big issue is we haven’t had a decent forward line for a while now.

[baillieinleeds]

Talking of letting MacDonald go can get in the sea. Unless we can’t afford him obviously. The defence has plagued us all season. We have big money players consistently injured. I wanted Gullan to sign, I just didn’t really know how injury prone he is. If club finances are the sticking point then we should be looking to drop the full time status, our crowds are terrible and that’s the truth. The Goodwillie effect has done serious damage to the club’s reputation, and the loss of major sponsorship hasn’t helped either. If this take over is genuine, then it’s up to them to appeal to the wider community to get on board. If all they bring is expertise then let’s see it. 

[CrossgatesCynic]

2 minutes ago, baillieinleeds said:

Talking of letting MacDonald go can get in the sea. Unless we can’t afford him obviously. The defence has plagued us all season. We have big money players consistently injured. I wanted Gullan to sign, I just didn’t really know how injury prone he is. If club finances are the sticking point then we should be looking to drop the full time status, our crowds are terrible and that’s the truth. The Goodwillie effect has done serious damage to the club’s reputation, and the loss of major sponsorship hasn’t helped either. If this take over is genuine, then it’s up to them to appeal to the wider community to get on board. If all they bring is expertise then let’s see it. 

Genuine question, what positive impact would dropping to P/T actually have? You’re still in a mightily competitive market for players, either way.

Throw into the mix that you’re then likely giving up some revenue in any case as you’ll need the pitch a couple of weeknights for training?

It’s fine saying it’ll save on wages but it’s going to (likely) lead to a far less competitive team on the park, which is counterproductive to your point about getting bums on seats.

Bottom line is, I’d like to see the maths for it but it doesn’t strike me as the obvious choice that others seem to see it as. 

[baillieinleeds]

3 minutes ago, CrossgatesCynic said:

Genuine question, what positive impact would dropping to P/T actually have? You’re still in a mightily competitive market for players, either way.

Throw into the mix that you’re then likely giving up some revenue in any case as you’ll need the pitch a couple of weeknights for training?

It’s fine saying it’ll save on wages but it’s going to (likely) lead to a far less competitive team on the park, which is counterproductive to your point about getting bums on seats.

Bottom line is, I’d like to see the maths for it but it doesn’t strike me as the obvious choice that others seem to see it as. 

The full timers really aren’t making a case for getting bums on seats either, the crowd situation is the factor in all of this. The debacle with DG really hasn’t subsided, a lot of dyed in the wool fans haven’t set foot in Starks Park since. The fact we were a community club went right out of the window when that c**t turned up. We’re also losing money hand over fist. The truth is we simply can’t afford to operate as a full time club