The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Michael W]

I am not averse to keeping both Lang and Nolan, but only if we sign another senior CB. Funds may of course be the determining factor here, and so I am equally not too fussed if one of them leaves, although I woukd prefer to keep Lang. 

I expect that we won't really know where we stand until the takeover is finalised. 13th of May Sim had provisionally indicated, was it not?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Michael W

[renton]

50 minutes ago, Raithie said:

If we're running at further player budget cuts and looking for 'young' players then, assuming Lang, Nolan and Masson extend their contracts, then that might be it at the back. Murray will know he's got Brown and/or Dick (are they signed up?) that can cover CB if need be - not that I'm in favour of that but wouldn't surprise me.

Pretty sure he won't want to run with the exact same defence.

Subject to takeover you'd assume Murray has spoken with the new bunch and will know which way his budget is going.

[renton]

We shouldn't be trying to, and I don't think Murray ever intended to, try and run with two specialist CBs over a season.

Masson isn't a CB - yet. 

Murray won't likely want to run with the same defence again I'd he can.

[TxRover]

9 minutes ago, renton said:

Pretty sure he won't want to run with the exact same defence.

Subject to takeover you'd assume Murray has spoken with the new bunch and will know which way his budget is going.

7 minutes ago, renton said:

We shouldn't be trying to, and I don't think Murray ever intended to, try and run with two specialist CBs over a season.

Masson isn't a CB - yet. 

Murray won't likely want to run with the same defence again I'd he can.

Why not? The slapdash nature of pairing and midfield certainly hurt performance and leaked goals as much, if not more than the CB’s. With Nolan and O’Riordan were were pretty solid at CB…are you suggesting Lang is the issue?

[renton]

6 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Why not? The slapdash nature of pairing and midfield certainly hurt performance and leaked goals as much, if not more than the CB’s. With Nolan and O’Riordan were were pretty solid at CB…are you suggesting Lang is the issue?

I mean you need to have at least 3 first team capable CBs available in your squad at any given time. O'Riordan was easily the best CB we've had all year and Murray got lucky that Lang was back fit in time for the former's departure.

For all our issues this year, the CB position could have been far worse and qualitatively it hasn't been great.

Is it worth keeping Lang, Nolan and Dick? You could make cases for all three but not for the defence as a whole. Nolan is basically competent but hapless, Lang can be better than him but latterly prone to rashness. Dick has improved under Murray but still not convinced- particularly as Millen will not give you width.

Keep Nolan and Lang by all means but make sure we have someone else coming in who could start. Replace Liam Dick. Don't rely on a couple of kids or we'll get fucking relegated for sure.

Get another midfielder in who can play like Scott Brown does. Find some fucking width from somewhere, and get a proper couple of strikers in. Get them out of league 1. They don't have to be great, they just have to be actual half way competent at standing in the right fucking place and playing more than 3 games a season.

 

[CALDERON]

3 hours ago, TxRover said:

Both £300 and £20 are classic “barrier” points, and even with card usage, people “see” the underlying number. It is likely that any increase above £20.99 per would slightly reduce PATG, especially anything over one person because of the multiples of a number making the extra charge more visible. People are weird, in single purchases, £21 vs £25 causes less loss than four time the loss of £20 vs £21…if I remember correctly, it’s usually only about two times the loss from the £1 change to £21 for the £4 change from £21 to £25. The multiple thing is a bit different, with groups seeing £88 for four tickets vs £80 as a 10% increase easily versus £22 vs £20 not being immediately recognized as the same.

Given the season we had, I wouldn’t have been surprised if they move heaven and earth to try to keep £20 and creep the season ticket to £315-320. However, with the Pars back, and possibly Falkirk, they might as well bump it now. The smart move would probably be, like you say, £22 (or £22.50) but then around £325 (another mental “point”) rather than £335 (the natural 15x rounded down). Using non-rounded/additional pence pricing is easier with cards if they want to play the £0.99 game, but that would really need no cash gates.

You can have as much "barrier" points as you want, but the increase in energy/utility costs and pretty much everything else will likely force clubs hands.  It's either increase prices, receive external investment to plug the gap or rely on other revenue steams, or bring through enough volume at the current prices to mitigate.  

[raith1974]

Centre back is a position we need cover in, not young kids or a left back. It's an area that players will regularly get booked or sent off. Now I'm not sure what our budget will be for next season but any club needs 4 centre halfs. It allows cover for injuries and suspensions but also gives us an option to move to a back 3.

This season has shown that with limited numbers and injury prone players, no youth set up we have limited options with players having to play out of position or no where near fully fit. Hopefully the new owners recognise this and at least provide a budget to have cover across the team. 

It would be great to have enough players including youngsters that we could field a reserve team and keep players match fit. Getting back to Lang and Nolan, both individually are okay, Lang IMO is the better player but both lack experience and Nolan appears to lack strength. No issues keeping both if we can get that experienced player in maybe with Masson 4th choice.

[Been going too long]

59 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Why not? The slapdash nature of pairing and midfield certainly hurt performance and leaked goals as much, if not more than the CB’s. With Nolan and O’Riordan were were pretty solid at CB…are you suggesting Lang is the issue?

I think we need a new cb in there , a team like ours that has conceded so many goals from set pieces needs to primarily look at 1) better organisation at the back 2) someone who can command the box more ( yes I know you will say what about Macdonald) I don’t think we should run with same defence and change 2 of them( new cb and lb for me) I like both Nolan and Lang fine but if we could get an older head in there it would be good imo

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, renton said:

I mean you need to have at least 3 first team capable CBs available in your squad at any given time. O'Riordan was easily the best CB we've had all year and Murray got lucky that Lang was back fit in time for the former's departure.

For all our issues this year, the CB position could have been far worse and qualitatively it hasn't been great.

Is it worth keeping Lang, Nolan and Dick? You could make cases for all three but not for the defence as a whole. Nolan is basically competent but hapless, Lang can be better than him but latterly prone to rashness. Dick has improved under Murray but still not convinced- particularly as Millen will not give you width.

Keep Nolan and Lang by all means but make sure we have someone else coming in who could start. Replace Liam Dick. Don't rely on a couple of kids or we'll get fucking relegated for sure.

Get another midfielder in who can play like Scott Brown does. Find some fucking width from somewhere, and get a proper couple of strikers in. Get them out of league 1. They don't have to be great, they just have to be actual half way competent at standing in the right fucking place and playing more than 3 games a season.

 

I’d take any two of Nolan, Dick and Lang (which effectively means Nolan plus one) plus a new starter level/experienced CB and keep Masson as number 4/5.

God, yes we need a similar to Brown DM.

[TxRover]

21 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I think we need a new cb in there , a team like ours that has conceded so many goals from set pieces needs to primarily look at 1) better organisation at the back 2) someone who can command the box more ( yes I know you will say what about Macdonald) I don’t think we should run with same defence and change 2 of them( new cb and lb for me) I like both Nolan and Lang fine but if we could get an older head in there it would be good imo

You can say MacDonald all you want, but he didn’t show that ability with these CB’s this year…just saying.

I would love a 32-35 year-old CB with height and experience…but wouldn’t we all, every single team in the SPFL. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is an even older CB to play perhaps 15-30 minutes now and then, start 5-8 games, and lead the defence in practice. Masson and Nolan would benefit a lot, and perhaps Young and Lang too.

I think we could risk Young at LB, but would like a second LB in to push him, so we might take an IM special from League One and see what happens.

[Been going too long]

40 minutes ago, TxRover said:

You can say MacDonald all you want, but he didn’t show that ability with these CB’s this year…just saying.

I would love a 32-35 year-old CB with height and experience…but wouldn’t we all, every single team in the SPFL. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is an even older CB to play perhaps 15-30 minutes now and then, start 5-8 games, and lead the defence in practice. Masson and Nolan would benefit a lot, and perhaps Young and Lang too.

I think we could risk Young at LB, but would like a second LB in to push him, so we might take an IM special from League One and see what happens.

I’m all on board for an auld cb, I don’t think young will be our starting lb, he will be the back up ( save a loan deal for Ngwenya for example if young gets a contract) , we have conceded too many this season , cut that down and we would have picked up more points even before getting a proper cf . Hopefully matthews is fit as I feel we have missed him and his grittiness/ goals from midfield. I think we should let Brad go, been a good player for us but feel he needs/wants a new challenge ( hopefully in another league) . As others have said big summer for the club

[TxRover]

3 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I’m all on board for an auld cb, I don’t think young will be our starting lb, he will be the back up ( save a loan deal for Ngwenya for example if young gets a contract) , we have conceded too many this season , cut that down and we would have picked up more points even before getting a proper cf . Hopefully matthews is fit as I feel we have missed him and his grittiness/ goals from midfield. I think we should let Brad go, been a good player for us but feel he needs/wants a new challenge ( hopefully in another league) . As others have said big summer for the club

Agree on Spencer, and then the question is can Matthews match well with Brown?

I don’t have a problem with looking for a new starting LB, but Young might be able to play it now, and certainly would need to either play next year or get another loan (which makes me wonder if we properly rate him). He’s certainly either our starting LB in 2024-2025 or moved on.

Here’s the ugly reality, to get younger, you have to risk younger players starting. Young and Masson have both played in plenty big games and looked competent. You have to break them in at some time, that’s what we did with Bowie. When we keep getting loanees, you lose chances to play your young lads because you have to play the loanee to get more loanees in future. Sign them and play them or let them go if you aren’t going to develop them…unless you have a youth team, which we badly need again (where have you gone, Craig Easton…Monserrat, it turns out).

[Broken Algorithms]

2 hours ago, CALDERON said:

You can have as much "barrier" points as you want, but the increase in energy/utility costs and pretty much everything else will likely force clubs hands.  It's either increase prices, receive external investment to plug the gap or rely on other revenue steams, or bring through enough volume at the current prices to mitigate.  

Seemingly we're not as badly impacted by the electricity situation because we changed our floodlights. If we'd not have done that we'd have been in far more trouble. Regardless, wages will go up as will pretty much every other cost. Normally I'd be dead against rises but if there's one year I appreciate it more it's just now.

[CALDERON]

16 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Agree on Spencer, and then the question is can Matthews match well with Brown?

I don’t have a problem with looking for a new starting LB, but Young might be able to play it now, and certainly would need to either play next year or get another loan (which makes me wonder if we properly rate him). He’s certainly either our starting LB in 2024-2025 or moved on.

Here’s the ugly reality, to get younger, you have to risk younger players starting. Young and Masson have both played in plenty big games and looked competent. You have to break them in at some time, that’s what we did with Bowie. When we keep getting loanees, you lose chances to play your young lads because you have to play the loanee to get more loanees in future. Sign them and play them or let them go if you aren’t going to develop them…unless you have a youth team, which we badly need again (where have you gone, Craig Easton…Monserrat, it turns out).

Bowie got his break in a poor League 1, far different than mid table Championship level.

None of the players Easton was in charge of were remotely good enough (from memory).  Having a youth team is pointless if that's the standard of player it's going to provide.

[RRFC_Liam]

3 hours ago, renton said:

Subject to takeover you'd assume Murray has spoken with the new bunch and will know which way his budget is going.

Exactly no one knows if the budget is going up slightly due to the proposed investment/takeover or down due to the massive loss of about 400k just have to and see who we re-sign and who we bring in 

[foreverarover]

7 hours ago, TxRover said:

You can say MacDonald all you want, but he didn’t show that ability with these CB’s this year…just saying.

I would love a 32-35 year-old CB with height and experience…but wouldn’t we all, every single team in the SPFL. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is an even older CB to play perhaps 15-30 minutes now and then, start 5-8 games, and lead the defence in practice. Masson and Nolan would benefit a lot, and perhaps Young and Lang too.

I think we could risk Young at LB, but would like a second LB in to push him, so we might take an IM special from League One and see what happens.

 Paying  for a player to play 15-30 minutes once in a blue moon. That for me is a waste of money. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by foreverarover

[TxRover]

4 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

That sounds the most stupid idea yet. Paying  for a player to play 15-30 minutes once in a blue moon. 

Leadership is much more than playing extensive minutes and contributing directly on the pitch. Leadership is sharing experience and knowledge with teammates, it’s seeing things in practice and games that you can help the other player improve on, it’s helping the manager, it’s leading by example. See Berra and MacLean…both were still up for more games than that, but if we could find a CB who is at the end of his playing career and ready to start working toward coaching it could be a win win.

[Specky Ginger]

6 hours ago, TxRover said:

Leadership is much more than playing extensive minutes and contributing directly on the pitch. Leadership is sharing experience and knowledge with teammates, it’s seeing things in practice and games that you can help the other player improve on, it’s helping the manager, it’s leading by example. See Berra and MacLean…both were still up for more games than that, but if we could find a CB who is at the end of his playing career and ready to start working toward coaching it could be a win win.

That's why we have a manager and assistant manager.

In our financial situation, we need to be signing players who can contribute regularly on the pitch.

Signing guys who are only capable of playing limited minutes is financially imbecilic. Remember Rudi Skacel?

[Ro Sham Bo]

Some better news on the injury front for a change... 

[Scary Bear]

Is the ‘Kelty people’ takeover bid still active?