The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Wardy]

We are needing a player in that team that organises, leads and talks players though a game. A midfield general, or even a commanding centre back. Watson and Hill are ok, but not commanding/passionate enough.

Baird is the only one who comes close enough in this team to being passionate. Ellis will always be a club legend, but he will only get on the park now if we are desperate.

Someone like hardie, (obviously not him) but someone with that kind of swagger.

The team looks void of any organisation, and it looks like no one is taking responsibility either. Those two things soley are the blame of the manager. Murray was a great centre back for us, but sadly his tenure as a manager (although it has brought a cup success) just isint good enough over the two seasons in charge. This season especially has been dismal in the league.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Wardy

[Rovers1992/1993]

Another shocking result thank you Spence for giving us back +11 Goal difference as we are going to need that. Turnball can say what he likes but the fact remains we have won 3 games in 19!!! is there a team in Scotland in worse form than us? We are brutal to watch and are struggling to stay up in the worst standard this league has ever been. Murray seems to have no clue how to change things and I have lost any faith in him as a manager he started the season well but that is because no one knew his tactics now he has been found out by the other teams. Calls for perspective and not to panic We won the Ramsdens cup against a woeful Rangers team and beat a Hibs team who's form is nearly as bad as ours this does not make up for our position in the league 'Heros to Zeros in six days'!! we were taken apart at home by Dumbarton should we have cheered them off the park? The board are right about perspective but if they look at our team since December they may not like what they see

Hibs have went 9 games without a win, and only 1 in 14/15 games

[McGuigan1978]

The moment today when the ball was played mid-way between Fox and Mullen, and they both ran away from it kind of sums us up.

No-one grasps the game by the scrub of the neck and dictates proceedings.

I appreciate those types of players may be few and far between, but you can see at set-pieces that players don't seem to accept responsibility for things.

After each goal we concede, or near miss, there's constantly players pointing and gesticulating in a "you should have been there" type of manner. I just sometimes feel that the players need to start holding themselves accountable, rather than pointing the finger at team-mates.

I genuinely can't pin down what's caused the malaise, it can't just be McGurn and Watson's injuries, although Mcgurn's performances did win us a fair few points at the beginning of the season.

QOS away, Hamilton away and Dundee at home spring to mind immediately, but there has to be more to it than that?

If we hadn't brought in Baird, we probably would have went down, which is incredible considering where we were at the start of November.

[San Starko Rover]

Hibs have went 9 games without a win, and only 1 in 14/15 games

Ah well at least there is always someone worse off than us or are they just desperate to keep the Edinburgh derby next year

[Enigma]

Incidentally I do think the board have done a great job balancing the books in the last couple of seasons, credit where it's due, but I don't like the 'bare with it', 'things will get better eventually', 'you must take the highs with the lows' attitude. 3 wins in 19 just isn't acceptable, it took us from comfortable play off spot to the jaws of relegation. A good job we had a cushion to fall back on when we started loosing, we wont have that come August.

[Ro Sham Bo]

I think Turnbull and his pals will get a clear wake up call when they put the season tickets on sale. I can't see many folk beating down the door to pick one up after this season. More and more fans will just pick and choose their games and who could blame then.

[Ro Sham Bo]

Just seen that Joe Cardle has won supporters club player of the year

Edited April 26, 2014 by Martin Nelson

[Michael W]

I have to agree with the consensus about the board - I'm more than satisfied with the way the club is being run. After our failed promotion challenge, I can recall the meetings called after the board took an absolute beasting on here for their financial management of the club - they've certainly made the right changes and we've been fortunate enough to get a couple of decent cup ties in the last couple of seasons which have helped us along the way.

However, Turnbull has made a bit of an arse of this. How anyone can look at our form and question why people are moaning is beyond me - if anything, there could've been a whole lot more vitriol directed at the players, management and the board. You simply can't be useless for half of a season and not expect people to start getting upset. We don't expect to win every game, but we (rightly) expect better than 3 wins in 19. Even winning six of those 19 would've been acceptable and whilst we would still be miffed about the drop in form, we'd still be on track for where we expected to be.

I do think we have a good squad here, but I'm coming round to the view that we need to let more of them go than we would like to. We've been conceding like hell, so players like Hill who no-one really moans about in isolation need to be questioned. Even up front we've been struggling; Spence & Smith have been covered before as likely to go, but what about Elliot? He's not been very good at all since coming back from injury and we haven't been doing very well in front of goal recently. I'd definitely keep Baird (who has probably kept us up) and would prefer to keep Elliot as well, but he isn't beyond being questioned.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Michael W

[Ro Sham Bo]

Elliot has really struggled since coming back from injury. When you factor in his awful on field behaviour (booked again for dissent today) then I'd be tempted to get shot of him. The comments about the defence are spot on as well. Individually Thomson, Hill, Booth and Watson are decent enough players but collectively they've been a nightmare.

Change of topic but looking on Rovers' twitter it seems that D&G Auto Care are our new sponsors for next season.

[Wardy]

I'll never walk away from the Rovers. I know some supporters have though. I know a few who haven't been back since we lost out on promotion to Dunfermline. This season has had a lot more lows that highs.

In previous seasons, we knew "on paper" we weren't the strongest team in the league, so 7th/8th was seen as reasonable acceptable.

This season, the buzz before the season was great, everyone was eager to see us in action. The players even delivered for the first few months. When the honeymoon period set in, and the time for picking up points began, we just couldn't cut it. Poor performance after poor performance. McGurn getting injured was a massive blow. Any team who loses their keeper (also our best for years) for the majority of the season are always going to struggle. That isint just a petty excuse. It's basically fact. Since McGurn has been out we have lost far more games than we have won.

Having looked at this seasons table, and then last seasons table, it's actually not as bad as our current scenario portrays!

We have actually won the same amount of matches this season, as we did last. 11 in total. Only 2 more defeats than last season too. (It seems more than that due to them coming basically all at once though).

We conceded 48 goals last season, scoring 45. This season we have actually scored 48 goals, (would only be 40 odd if it wasn't for Baird) yet have leaked in more goals than last season, still with a game to play. 59 (FIFTY FUCKING NINE) to be exact. That is absolutely shocking.

Again the stats do not lie. I for one am actually surprised, especially with us only losing 2 (potentially 3 after next week) games this season. But still this season, we have been generally honking in games, due to laughable defensive errors and in some cases absolutely toothless up front.

I've calmed down now.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

FFS, IT'S TURNBULL

It's not that difficult to comprehend.

[Ro Sham Bo]

Last season we finished with 46 points whereas this season the best we can get is 45. Bearing in mind the perceived improvement in quality of player this season that is nowhere near acceptable.

[roverthemoon]

No issue with how the club is being run but given how shite we have been since December in the league Turnbull's statement is just all wrong. Just makes me think 'go f**k yourself you patronising arsehole' which I'm guessing isn't the motivating pep talk feel he was going for

[Enigma]

If you could pick a realistic next manager who would you choose. One of the arguments I've seen for keeping Murray is that there's nobody better out there anyway, can this be true?

[roverthemoon]

Because of the Ramsdens win I'm still prepared to give Murray the benefit of the doubt, but he's on his last warning for me. If at the start of next season we're still in the same form as we have been over the last 19 games I'd punt him quickly.

[Broken Algorithms]

I think Turnbull and his pals will get a clear wake up call when they put the season tickets on sale. I can't see many folk beating down the door to pick one up after this season. More and more fans will just pick and choose their games and who could blame then.

In all honesty, I know a lot of people who go to the occasional game who are considering picking up a season ticket due to the number of big games.

Just seen that Joe Cardle has won supporters club player of the year

Nothing wrong with that. He's chipped in with a fair number of goals and is our top player for assists. He's had some good games, and even when he hasn't been on form he has still had some creative outlet. Cardle will always divide the fans in terms of his output, but it isn't the worst suggestion for a player of the year.

I'll never walk away from the Rovers. I know some supporters have though. I know a few who haven't been back since we lost out on promotion to Dunfermline. This season has had a lot more lows that highs.

In previous seasons, we knew "on paper" we weren't the strongest team in the league, so 7th/8th was seen as reasonable acceptable.

This season, the buzz before the season was great, everyone was eager to see us in action. The players even delivered for the first few months. When the honeymoon period set in, and the time for picking up points began, we just couldn't cut it. Poor performance after poor performance. McGurn getting injured was a massive blow. Any team who loses their keeper (also our best for years) for the majority of the season are always going to struggle. That isint just a petty excuse. It's basically fact. Since McGurn has been out we have lost far more games than we have won.

Having looked at this seasons table, and then last seasons table, it's actually not as bad as our current scenario portrays!

We have actually won the same amount of matches this season, as we did last. 11 in total. Only 2 more defeats than last season too. (It seems more than that due to them coming basically all at once though).

We conceded 48 goals last season, scoring 45. This season we have actually scored 48 goals, (would only be 40 odd if it wasn't for Baird) yet have leaked in more goals than last season, still with a game to play. 59 (FIFTY FUCKING NINE) to be exact. That is absolutely shocking.

Again the stats do not lie. I for one am actually surprised, especially with us only losing 2 (potentially 3 after next week) games this season. But still this season, we have been generally honking in games, due to laughable defensive errors and in some cases absolutely toothless up front.

I've calmed down now.

Can't stress how much I agree this this. It pretty much perfectly sums up our view.

Last season, Murray did a respectable jobs. In terms of scoring, we had a poor midfield and even in terms of our defenders we didn't contribute that much. Our success was largely reliant on when Brian Graham felt like scoring. This season is very different. We've had pretty much every member of the team chip in. Defensively, we've missed having the sheer brute force of Mensing at times. While Mensing wasn't the quickest, we wouldn't f**k about. Certainly, it didn't help losing Watson and McGurn, but as you've mentioned we've lacked a leader at times.

I'd love to keep thinking along the lines that with a consistent defence, a new midfielder in place of Fox and Baird up top we'd be a much improved team. But we've been far too naive and toothless this season to think that three players would provide such a drastic change. Yesterday summed it up. Cardle should never have been hooked when Elliot had done absolutely nothing during the game. Far to reliant on 4-4-2, and wide players which are figured out too quickly.

Given the goal difference, next week we should go balls to the wall in trying a new formation. Why not go a 4-2-3-1 with a full strength defence, Moon and Callachan in holding roles Cardle, Smith/Elliot/Vaughan and Anderson in more offensive positions with Baird up top? To me, 4-4-2 seems mundane and outdated. Guess we'll just have to see.

[CALDERON]

If you could pick a realistic next manager who would you choose. One of the arguments I've seen for keeping Murray is that there's nobody better out there anyway, can this be true?

I don't know his contract situation, but Gary Bollan has done a fantastic job at Airdrie.

[Ro Sham Bo]

If you could pick a realistic next manager who would you choose. One of the arguments I've seen for keeping Murray is that there's nobody better out there anyway, can this be true?

I can't think of any out of work managers who I'd be that keen on but as mentioned Bollan would be a good shout. There will be other Ian Murrays out there as well looking for a chance. An untried manager is always a gamble but it's up to the board to identify those that have something extra about them.

[Broken Algorithms]

I'd agree with you on Bollan. If we were to replace Murray with him I'd be happy. I genuinely think Ian Murray is miles above any manager tactically in the SPFL at the moment. When you look at what he's achieved this season it really is incredible. He took Dumbarton up to Aberdeen and forced the best Dons team in years into a struggle for a 1-0 win. I can't see any other manager who is as strong in management as he is.

Another shout could potentially be Aitken at Stranraer who has turned them into a respected side.

[Novarover]

I have to agree with the consensus about the board - I'm more than satisfied with the way the club is being run. After our failed promotion challenge, I can recall the meetings called after the board took an absolute beasting on here for their financial management of the club - they've certainly made the right changes and we've been fortunate enough to get a couple of decent cup ties in the last couple of seasons which have helped us along the way.

However, Turnbull has made a bit of an arse of this. How anyone can look at our form and question why people are moaning is beyond me - if anything, there could've been a whole lot more vitriol directed at the players, management and the board. You simply can't be useless for half of a season and not expect people to start getting upset. We don't expect to win every game, but we (rightly) expect better than 3 wins in 19. Even winning six of those 19 would've been acceptable and whilst we would still be miffed about the drop in form, we'd still be on track for where we expected to be.

I do think we have a good squad here, but I'm coming round to the view that we need to let more of them go than we would like to. We've been conceding like hell, so players like Hill who no-one really moans about in isolation need to be questioned. Even up front we've been struggling; Spence & Smith have been covered before as likely to go, but what about Elliot? He's not been very good at all since coming back from injury and we haven't been doing very well in front of goal recently. I'd definitely keep Baird (who has probably kept us up) and would prefer to keep Elliot as well, but he isn't beyond being questioned.

I agree with this regarding the Board but I'm aware that Turnbull feels he has a responsibility to back the Board and Management team in public. He is known to speak his mind forcibly privately. My main criticism of the Board is that it has a "fan's rep" who has totally failed to win over the South Stand support hence a feeling that the Board is remote.

I have little faith in Murray's ability to reconstruct the team by removing the weaker links and building on it's strengths. He has shown no talent in that regard with team formations or substitutions. Ellis and Smith haven't contributed much to that either. Given the liberal use of yellow and red cards by referees, we certainly need a more sophisticated approach to defending or a bigger defensive pool. We will also need a more predatory strike force and Elliot must go.