The Falkirk FC Thread

[StuartA]

9 minutes ago, Blame Me said:

On a completely different vein I see ICT have accepted an offer for a majority stake from a "sports venture capitalist".

The Mark Campbell episode immediately springs to mind .

Must now be the most at risk club in the SPFL .

Saw that. Goes to show the perils of “investment” especially when the club is distressed. Looks also at Motherwell, with the US investor trying to push the fans out, and Dunfermline’s German owners. There are good examples too obviously, but the idea that proliferates among some that it’s a straightforward decision is flawed. 

[Springfield]

4 minutes ago, BPM said:

Not sure I took it this way. However it was meant it shouldn’t have been said in this way. 

Agree. I don’t think the BOD need any advice on the finances of the club, considering the amount of hard work all the BOD, marketing, investors, FFS, fans have all contributed in steadying the ship and hopefully with a decent season we can progress that bit more. 

[Big chungus]

I wonder if maybe something has happened with the Allan situation. Say Mcglynn expected that once Allan went out on loan the board would release the funds from his wage. Maybe they haven’t done that or possibly not made the full amount available. Pure speculation on my part. Just thought that we would have somebody lined up to replace Allan, considering it’s been in the works for a while. 

[Believe The Hype]

1 hour ago, SouthStander1876 said:

Is the silly buggers/b*****ds quote not just saying they cant be silly with money?

Exactly how I read it. He is just emphasising that as much as he wants more the board can't be daft with money. 

[BPM]

40 minutes ago, Big chungus said:

I wonder if maybe something has happened with the Allan situation. Say Mcglynn expected that once Allan went out on loan the board would release the funds from his wage. Maybe they haven’t done that or possibly not made the full amount available. Pure speculation on my part. Just thought that we would have somebody lined up to replace Allan, considering it’s been in the works for a while. 

Not really sure how many times McGlynn has to say the budget has gone. Hopefully JS will make things clearer on FD. I hope the FD guys put it out on its own do give people clarity either way.

[PedroMoutinho]

1 hour ago, StuartA said:

Saw that. Goes to show the perils of “investment” especially when the club is distressed. Looks also at Motherwell, with the US investor trying to push the fans out, and Dunfermline’s German owners. There are good examples too obviously, but the idea that proliferates among some that it’s a straightforward decision is flawed. 

 

Don’t think anyone is saying it’s a straightforward decision or that we should accept any offer that comes along from the first shyster to turn up at TFS. Clearly, any proposed investment would need to be carefully looked at, including background checks on those involved.

However, I do think the right investment has the potential to augment the existing structure at the club, even if compromises need to be made. There is also peril in simply accepting that we can’t compete with the likes of Ayr United who averaged crowds of barely over 2000 last season. 

[StuartA]

1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said:

Don’t think anyone is saying it’s a straightforward decision or that we should accept any offer that comes along from the first shyster to turn up at TFS. Clearly, any proposed investment would need to be carefully looked at, including background checks on those involved.

However, I do think the right investment has the potential to augment the existing structure at the club, even if compromises need to be made. There is also peril in simply accepting that we can’t compete with the likes of Ayr United who averaged crowds of barely over 2000 last season. 

I think some people do see investment as an easier task than it is in the real world, judging by comments I see on here and elsewhere. As if we have a choice between the form of fan ownership we have now or the sugar daddy method. 

I agree with much of the rest of what you say though. Right person, yes, obvs after the existential threat that came with the previous two bids and amount of shysters out there.

Right investment, of course, but I don’t know what that would look like. At the simplest, albeit maximalist level, we’d be asking a new investor for some £800k minimum for 25%, if existing shareholders agreed to dilution. Even then, we’d want them to continue funding by matching FSS. So the more likely scenario is someone buying shares from existing larger shareholders, so c£340k (at cost) for Rawlins 16% and whatever deal can be struck with others. But then, there’s a fair chunk of cash out the investor’s pocket before £1 has come to the club.

I’m definitely not against the right investment but I’d much prefer we try growing the club at it’s own pace by running the organisation well (as we are doing), fans continuing to fund the club (as we’re doing so well), and increasing income through success on the park, thereby increasing the likelihood of greater income through cup runs, league prize money and even player sales (as we’ve seen with some of our competitors). I’d prefer that to us taking any risks with the ownership structure just when things have started to go well.

Ayr have a major backer and have been in the league for a few seasons, they benefited from the extra Covid money and, while we’re at it, had an away Ibrox tie earlier this year. Yet from what I saw, they aren’t 7-figures ahead of us on the pitch. 

ETA: I’d also contest the idea I’ve seen in a couple of places that the fact we aren’t blowing other teams out the water financially is a constraint of our form of fan ownership. I’d say it’s the other way: without fans investing, the club would have had the best part of £1million less since 2022, and this year’s budget would be £150k (ish) smaller. 

Here’s the prize money for last season (source SPFL Mediawatch on Twitter)

Edited July 26 by StuartA

[Harry Kinnear]

Just seen on the Pars thread that some of them are getting refunds on their ST’s. They have had outside investors so it appears things aren’t too Rosie over the Forth.
 

Personally I’d rather we stayed masters of our own destiny, outside investment is okay but not if it means selling the clubs soul, we have been down that road before.

[PedroMoutinho]

5 minutes ago, StuartA said:

I think some people do see investment as an easier task than it is in the real world, judging by comments I see on here and elsewhere. As if we have a choice between the form of fan ownership we have now or the sugar daddy method. 

I agree with much of the rest of what you say though. Right person, yes, obvs after the existential threat that came with the previous two bids and amount of shysters out there.

Right investment, of course, but I don’t know what that would look like. At the simplest, albeit maximalist level, we’d be asking a new investor for some £800k minimum for 25%, if existing shareholders agreed to dilution. Even then, we’d want them to continue funding by matching FSS. So the more likely scenario is someone buying shares from existing larger shareholders, so c£340k (at cost) for Rawlins 16% and whatever deal can be struck with others. But then, there’s a fair chunk of cash out the investor’s pocket before £1 has come to the club.

I’m definitely not against the right investment but I’d much prefer we try growing the club at it’s own pace by running the organisation well (as we are doing), fans continuing to fund the club (as we’re doing so well), and increasing income through success on the park, thereby increasing the likelihood of greater income through cup runs, league prize money and even player sales (as we’ve seen with some of our competitors). I’d prefer that to us taking any risks with the ownership structure just when things have started to go well.

Ayr have a major backer and have been in the league for a few seasons, they benefited from the extra Covid money and, while we’re at it, had an away Ibrox tie earlier this year. Yet from what I saw, they aren’t 7-figures ahead of us on the pitch. 

I agree- however, if “fans continuing to fund the club” at a level that facilitates a top-end championship budget requires 3000 FSS members (as has been mooted by directors previously), I do think some form of external investment will become a necessity as they figure is never going to happen.

Extra prize money will help- although even then we’d need to finish 5th or 6th to really see a massive uplift on last season. Equally, I’m not sure we’d necessarily see 4000 ST holders next season if we end up towards the bottom end of the league.

The original fan ownership model envisaged an active external third leg of the stool putting in additional finance. Clearly, that is not happening with the Rawlins’ stake effectively in limbo, so the easiest option for me would be to get that situation sorted.

[HopeStreetWalker]

2 hours ago, Blame Me said:

On a completely different vein I see ICT have accepted an offer for a majority stake from a "sports venture capitalist".

The Mark Campbell episode immediately springs to mind .

Must now be the most at risk club in the SPFL .

Many Thistle and Caley fans at the time of the merger to create ICT predicted it was a Ponzi scheme for some big egos who would do very well, and it would all end in tears. Guy I worked with was a big Caley fan and told me there were near punch ups at both clubs individuals meetings when the whole scheme was proposed. Sure there are some ICT fans can outline the gory details.

[BPM]

16 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

I agree- however, if “fans continuing to fund the club” at a level that facilitates a top-end championship budget requires 3000 FSS members (as has been mooted by directors previously), I do think some form of external investment will become a necessity as they figure is never going to happen.

Extra prize money will help- although even then we’d need to finish 5th or 6th to really see a massive uplift on last season. Equally, I’m not sure we’d necessarily see 4000 ST holders next season if we end up towards the bottom end of the league.

The original fan ownership model envisaged an active external third leg of the stool putting in additional finance. Clearly, that is not happening with the Rawlins’ stake effectively in limbo, so the easiest option for me would be to get that situation sorted.

How do we know that the Board are not trying to sort that ? I agree with Stuart A that it is a lot harder than people think it is to fix. 

[StuartA]

1 minute ago, BPM said:

How do we know that the Board are not trying to sort that ? I agree with Stuart A that it is a lot harder than people think it is to fix. 

I agree they probably are. For an investor to fit into our club, they’ll have to be pretty up for the long haul. We’re not just going to hand over the keys for £400k. My guess is that plenty of frogs are being kissed. 

[SuperTuesday]

Pedro wants a ten to two burd, and wake up with a princess.

Edited July 26 by SuperTuesday

[Springfield]

 

[Reggie Perrin]

Given that Jamie Swinney has previously stated that fourth place in the Championship is where the economics start to work in our  favour I would assume that McGlynn has been told behind closed doors that is the target for this season.

I would also assume that not being naive mugs the Board are budgeting for a lower finish.

Working within our means and growing the club organically has got to be the way forward.

We all want nice shiney new things (a 25 goal a season centre forward )but patience and realistic expectations must be the way forward this season.

For what it’s worth I do think a play off place is realistically achievable.

Edited July 26 by Reggie Perrin

[BPM]

Just to add a bit more perspective to the post Stuart A put up check out the link below and the Government Covid Loans the Premier League teams got. Eye watering numbers. Well done to Celtic for turning it down. Little wonder why clubs like St.Johnstone had £5m in the bank recently when you see the numbers. 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/details-of-loans-made-to-scottish-football-clubs-foi-release/#

Edited July 26 by BPM

[FalkirkBairn2021]

On 25/07/2024 at 22:03, Just-in said:

That’s how I read it too. 

That wasn't what I read into it. I think it was more 'They can't be demanding me to do that well this season when I'm so limited with funds' 

Sensible arse protection.

[FalkirkBairn2021]

The frustrating thing about investment now is that we are in a great position to receive it. Thanks in no small part due to the excellent work of the current board in reworking some of the mess they inherited.

We're not talking millions. It is in the ballpark of 'wealthy fan' rather than a Saudi prince.

I understand why that isn't attractive to a millionaire Falkirk fan (of which there'll be a few) - Here's an opportunity to piss away 800,000 you won't get back. And any non fan will be rightly suspect for their motives. 

Look at the mess Hibs are in with warring factions trying to take them in a very dubious feeder club direction.

I think we need to accept only merit on the pitch will see significant new investment in the side . But if they keep up this level of performance I'm good with that. Our time will come to get promotion.

[Shodwall cat]

12 hours ago, BPM said:

Just to add a bit more perspective to the post Stuart A put up check out the link below and the Government Covid Loans the Premier League teams got. Eye watering numbers. Well done to Celtic for turning it down. Little wonder why clubs like St.Johnstone had £5m in the bank recently when you see the numbers. 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/details-of-loans-made-to-scottish-football-clubs-foi-release/#

No wonder Hamilton always have cash floating about. A 1.1 million pounds cash windfall paid back at 55k a year. 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

12 hours ago, BPM said:

Just to add a bit more perspective to the post Stuart A put up check out the link below and the Government Covid Loans the Premier League teams got. Eye watering numbers. Well done to Celtic for turning it down. Little wonder why clubs like St.Johnstone had £5m in the bank recently when you see the numbers. 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/details-of-loans-made-to-scottish-football-clubs-foi-release/#

How in God’s name did Rangers, Livvy and Hamilton (to name a few) pass a credit check !!