The Falkirk FC Thread

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Stop thinking of it as a new stand. Think of it as a revenue generator. The commercial team in now could sell sand to Arabs and I really believe if they were given 2-300 more hospitality spaces, they could sell them, let alone all the naming rights etc.

All of the hospitality stuff in the main stand is only available on match days, the council use it the rest of the time. All those rooms are (I believe) utilised heavily. A few years ago I spoke to the club about the possibility of hosting a trade exhibition/conference there through the week and was told I could only do it through the council.

Whatever gets built there has to have the capacity to grow as we grow. Build a minimalist terracing on a mound of concrete and that's what we'll be stuck with. What we have to avoid though is building something that becomes a millstone if our fortunes turn and we end up in the seaside leagues again.  So it has to be self-sustaining. I'd suggest big meeting rooms that can be sub-divided, a public gym and a restaurant (handy for hospitality catering). Remember what's going on around the stadium, we're not going to be surrounded by wasteland much longer.  The Stadium is going to be at the heart of a newly-developed destination point.

 

I get the argument that it's not a priority. Perhaps. But then again, it's a lot of income we're missing out on - potentially dwarfing St Johnstone's funeral teas. 

[AJ1981]

43 minutes ago, Silvio Tattiescone said:

Stop thinking of it as a new stand. Think of it as a revenue generator. The commercial team in now could sell sand to Arabs and I really believe if they were given 2-300 more hospitality spaces, they could sell them, let alone all the naming rights etc.

All of the hospitality stuff in the main stand is only available on match days, the council use it the rest of the time. All those rooms are (I believe) utilised heavily. A few years ago I spoke to the club about the possibility of hosting a trade exhibition/conference there through the week and was told I could only do it through the council.

Whatever gets built there has to have the capacity to grow as we grow. Build a minimalist terracing on a mound of concrete and that's what we'll be stuck with. What we have to avoid though is building something that becomes a millstone if our fortunes turn and we end up in the seaside leagues again.  So it has to be self-sustaining. I'd suggest big meeting rooms that can be sub-divided, a public gym and a restaurant (handy for hospitality catering). Remember what's going on around the stadium, we're not going to be surrounded by wasteland much longer.  The Stadium is going to be at the heart of a newly-developed destination point.

 

I get the argument that it's not a priority. Perhaps. But then again, it's a lot of income we're missing out on - potentially dwarfing St Johnstone's funeral teas. 

the numbers just don't add up. it would cost £3.5m maybe more to build a stand, maybe more. the money would have to be borrowed financing on a commercial mortgage over 20 years, that would be around £20k repayments a month. at a 10% return thats a target £200k turnover a month = £2.4M a year. thats about the clubs turnover the year reached the semi final, source AGM update october 2023 on the club's website.  the debt just can't be serviced, especially is half of the structure is seating or standing used around 20 days per year out of 365.

[RC55 FFC]

3 hours ago, BPM said:

So fans only paid £100 for a ST there? Not sure those numbers are accurate. Looking at their ST prices the cheapest is £363. That would make the income if all sold at this price would be about 750k ex VAT 

My memory of watching it months ago was way out from a numbers perspective and currency used . Just watched and these were the figures. 

Edited September 4 by RC55 FFC

[mic_17_uk]

6 hours ago, LatapyBairn. said:

The council have already granted planning permission, the club have outline planning permission sitting ready to go the only thing that’s missing is the cash to finance the thing! 

I'll do the QSing - mate's rates. 

 

Feck it, it'll throw in the employers agent role for free!

[BPM]

3 hours ago, RC55 FFC said:

My memory of watching it months ago was way out from a numbers perspective and currency used . Just watched and these were the figures. 

Clearly they could not have sold it out then 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

8 hours ago, AJ1981 said:

the numbers just don't add up. it would cost £3.5m maybe more to build a stand, maybe more. the money would have to be borrowed financing on a commercial mortgage over 20 years, that would be around £20k repayments a month. at a 10% return thats a target £200k turnover a month = £2.4M a year. thats about the clubs turnover the year reached the semi final, source AGM update october 2023 on the club's website.  the debt just can't be serviced, especially is half of the structure is seating or standing used around 20 days per year out of 365.

Correct.

[RC55 FFC]

4 hours ago, BPM said:

Clearly they could not have sold it out then 

They did but from watching it again, they anticipated it only being up Dec-May.

It has however remained so the income will be far more than they predicted at the time. 

[Silvio Tattiescone]

9 hours ago, AJ1981 said:

the numbers just don't add up. it would cost £3.5m maybe more to build a stand, maybe more. the money would have to be borrowed financing on a commercial mortgage over 20 years, that would be around £20k repayments a month. at a 10% return thats a target £200k turnover a month = £2.4M a year. thats about the clubs turnover the year reached the semi final, source AGM update october 2023 on the club's website.  the debt just can't be serviced, especially is half of the structure is seating or standing used around 20 days per year out of 365.

Match day hospitality alone could bring in £200k a season done right . Add in sponsorship, advertising, naming rights etc.  Then income from business tenants - gym, restaurant etc. Add in income from letting out the meeting rooms through the week. We seem to be pretty good at finding grants to knock a chunk off that £3.5m then we have some wealthy patrons who may provide more attractive rates than a commercial mortgage. 

 

It's not a priority, I agree but it's certainly not unfeasible. 

[Bairnardo]

Just popped in to have a chuckle at @Francesc Fabregas being absolute shit scared of the #NBJ.

Enjoy your weekend m8 xox

[HopeStreetWalker]

11 hours ago, Silvio Tattiescone said:

Stop thinking of it as a new stand. Think of it as a revenue generator. The commercial team in now could sell sand to Arabs and I really believe if they were given 2-300 more hospitality spaces, they could sell them, let alone all the naming rights etc.

All of the hospitality stuff in the main stand is only available on match days, the council use it the rest of the time. All those rooms are (I believe) utilised heavily. A few years ago I spoke to the club about the possibility of hosting a trade exhibition/conference there through the week and was told I could only do it through the council.

Whatever gets built there has to have the capacity to grow as we grow. Build a minimalist terracing on a mound of concrete and that's what we'll be stuck with. What we have to avoid though is building something that becomes a millstone if our fortunes turn and we end up in the seaside leagues again.  So it has to be self-sustaining. I'd suggest big meeting rooms that can be sub-divided, a public gym and a restaurant (handy for hospitality catering). Remember what's going on around the stadium, we're not going to be surrounded by wasteland much longer.  The Stadium is going to be at the heart of a newly-developed destination point.

 

I get the argument that it's not a priority. Perhaps. But then again, it's a lot of income we're missing out on - potentially dwarfing St Johnstone's funeral teas. 

If there is not a self-financing business model out there for any business who would want to be tenants of a new stand complex.

Which to date there hasn't been nor any company or business shown any interest in such any enterprise.

In the absence of that nor any opportunity in the foreseeable future then the 'minimalist' option of whatever hybrid set up. Is the only one that will complete the stadium.

As for the land around the stadium being redeveloped it's the councils stadium and surrounding land and they will call the shots. 

[AJ1981]

1 hour ago, Silvio Tattiescone said:

Match day hospitality alone could bring in £200k a season done right . Add in sponsorship, advertising, naming rights etc.  Then income from business tenants - gym, restaurant etc. Add in income from letting out the meeting rooms through the week. We seem to be pretty good at finding grants to knock a chunk off that £3.5m then we have some wealthy patrons who may provide more attractive rates than a commercial mortgage. 

 

It's not a priority, I agree but it's certainly not unfeasible. 

The £200k I assume is sales? After costs and paying off the overhead share I reckon the profit would be around one months payment. What about the other 11? 

everything else you mention has costs that follow and the profit margin is low. You need high levels of occupancy / usage and I just don’t see it.

You don’t get grants for commercial enterprises and there has to be a community use and benefit.  Driving down your sales potential.

if it was feasible a developer or wealthy supporters would have done it already and the board would have bitten their hands 

 

 

[HopeStreetWalker]

32 minutes ago, AJ1981 said:

The £200k I assume is sales? After costs and paying off the overhead share I reckon the profit would be around one months payment. What about the other 11? 

everything else you mention has costs that follow and the profit margin is low. You need high levels of occupancy / usage and I just don’t see it.

You don’t get grants for commercial enterprises and there has to be a community use and benefit.  Driving down your sales potential.

if it was feasible a developer or wealthy supporters would have done it already and the board would have bitten their hands 

 

 

4th stand ain't going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The only thing that can be done at present is to identify the costs for every option on the table - building it - running it - income. So should the opportunity arise the club can react accordingly to the circumstances the club finds itself in at the time.

[LatapyBairn.]

1 hour ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

If there is not a self-financing business model out there for any business who would want to be tenants of a new stand complex.

Which to date there hasn't been nor any company or business shown any interest in such any enterprise.

In the absence of that nor any opportunity in the foreseeable future then the 'minimalist' option of whatever hybrid set up. Is the only one that will complete the stadium.

As for the land around the stadium being redeveloped it's the councils stadium and surrounding land and they will call the shots. 

It’s not the “councils stadium”  The breakdown of the 3 party ownership structure (Sandy Alexander, the club, Falkirk council) has been explained to you previously on here by various posters including myself so you should already know this. As to your other claim the club also hold a 125 year no cost lease over the surrounding land and already have planning permission to build on the land where the east stand would be situated should finance somehow become available. 

Edited September 5 by LatapyBairn.

[HopeStreetWalker]

27 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

It’s not the “councils stadium”  The breakdown of the 3 party ownership structure (Sandy Alexander, the club, Falkirk council) has been explained to you previously on here by various posters including myself so you should already know this. As to your other claim the club also hold a 125 year no cost lease over the surrounding land and already have planning permission to build on the land where the east stand would be situated should finance somehow become available. 

The council call the shots on the stadium as they have shown over the years.

We are where we are as you have outlined. The only thing I have proposed is getting the costing on the various options to complete the stadium should the finance you mentioned be available.

Anyway it's all academic, the club rightly has other priorities.

[LatapyBairn.]

27 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

The council call the shots on the stadium as they have shown over the years.

We are where we are as you have outlined. The only thing I have proposed is getting the costing on the various options to complete the stadium should the finance you mentioned be available.

Anyway it's all academic, the club rightly has other priorities.

Please explain how the council “call the shots over the stadium as they have shown over the years” where is your evidence of this? They only own part of the main stand and mono block park so I’ve no idea how they could possibly have control over the north/south stand or any of the club owned sections in the main stand? In fact having quizzed a number of the current BOD on this there is actually a very amicable and productive relationship with the council at the moment where they have been particularly helpful to the point where the season before last they’ve even paid for maintenance work to be carried out on areas of the main stand they do not own and are not responsible for. They have also I’m told been very active in assisting the club and foundation with certain issues they have had. We actually pay the council way less in service fees for use of the council owned catering and hospitality suites than we pay SA in rent for the main stand, if you bother to speak to any of the current guys running the club they actually feel the deal and relationship with the council is very reasonable and would tell you dealing with issues like taking ownership of the south stand or dealing with the clubs relationship with the foundation are way higher on the list of priorities needing attention. These are competent people we now have at the helm right now as has been shown by the clubs upward trajectory both on and off the park since the event of fan ownership so with respect I’m far more inclined to listen to they’re opinion on these matters as opposed to something I’ve read from a poster on an anonymous online forum. 

Edited September 5 by LatapyBairn.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

f**k me, the negativity in some people would make you greet. A quick Google shows 23 gym and fitness venues in Falkirk & Grangemouth. Clearly there's a demand and there's a huge cachet in being linked with a football stadium.

 

In fact, there's a gym using the North Stand is there not? 

 

Build a decent facility geared towards commercialism in a stadium within an area that's under development with good road links and parking and it would be hard not to make money. 

 

Perhaps the reason nothing's been done is down to the mental pygmies that were previously in charge, some of whom are represented here pissing on any signs of positivity. 

[SouthStander1876]

Not this again

[HopeStreetWalker]

1 hour ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Please explain how the council “call the shots over the stadium as they have shown over the years” where is your evidence of this? They only own part of the main stand and mono block park so I’ve no idea how they could possibly have control over the north/south stand or any of the club owned sections in the main stand? In fact having quizzed a number of the current BOD on this there is actually a very amicable and productive relationship with the council at the moment where they have been particularly helpful to the point where the season before last they’ve even paid for maintenance work to be carried out on areas of the main stand they do not own and are not responsible for. They have also I’m told been very active in assisting the club and foundation with certain issues they have had. We actually pay the council way less in service fees for use of the council owned catering and hospitality suites than we pay SA in rent for the main stand, if you bother to speak to any of the current guys running the club they actually feel the deal and relationship with the council is very reasonable and would tell you dealing with issues like taking ownership of the south stand or dealing with the clubs relationship with the foundation are way higher on the list of priorities needing attention. These are competent people we now have at the helm right now as has been shown by the clubs upward trajectory both on and off the park since the event of fan ownership so with respect I’m far more inclined to listen to they’re opinion on these matters as opposed to something I’ve read from a poster on an anonymous online forum. 

OK then. No sooner did FFC sign up to the stadium as partners with the Council within weeks the Council announced the idea of a hotel as part of the complex was a no-go as they had revised the Grangemouth Blast Zone area.

It was a bolt from the blue FFC did not have an inking it was even being considered but damn sure the council did.

From that moment on I would not trust the council an inch with their involvement with the stadium and with good reason. It was an appalling betrayal to a partner right at the start of the joint venture.

If relations have improved - good but keep this in mind - council administrations change and so do their attitudes.

But anyway that's by and by the 4th stand is the subject of the thread.

The club should cost the options so if the finances are available in the future then the club's ready to go. Think that's appropriate, forward-thinking and not controversial 

 

[Musketeer Gripweed]

4 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

But anyway that's by and by the 4th stand is the subject of the thread.

 

It really isn't.

[18BAIRN76]

I know it’s quite costly and I know some might have objections to it on purity grounds, but given the efficiency of our commercial team, I’m a little bit surprised we haven’t done something like naming rights for the stadium (ala Livingston, and plenty of others). I don’t even know if this is something that has been floated, but just seems quite a straightforward way to bring in a chunk of money.

 

edit to add: probably due to us not owning the stadium, but then I’m pretty sure Hamilton did naming rights when renting NDP? Unsure of the logistics.

Edited September 5 by 18BAIRN76