The Falkirk FC Thread

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, inreganhendrywetrust said:

 

 

Had your chance to be top - fluffed it and now holding everybody back! Bravo bravo

 

 

We're holding noone back. As I said the priority should be getting money to skint clubs like yourselves but no we're clouding that whole issue by asking clubs to vote on relegating other teams  or shafting themselves of a chance of promotion just to get that cash released.  The two should not be linked. In england lower league clubs are getting prize money early without having to sign up to shaft other clubs. No reason why we couldnt follow suit.If the vote ends up a no and teams like raith end up going down the shitter then I'm afraid u have noone to blame but yourselves.

[CALDERON]

36 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

If that was the case we would be voting on money and feck all else. The most important thing is cash for clubs that are struggling like your mob but under the current proposal your wanting us to vote to save you because you've spent all your cash on your team and shaft ourselves who are well run financially and have money in the bank to get us through situations like this without having to get begging bowls out after a weeks inactivity.The clubs should be agreeing to pay clubs money just now and then the promotion relegation stuff can be argued over the next few weeks. I'm sure as a gesture of good will we would be quite willing for you to get the extra 8k that is the difference in prize money between first and second since you guys seem so desperate for cash.

Wee bit harsh.  We are run a lot better than we were, but paying the price for the club being run as a basket case for years.  There has always been the easy option available of Admin, and we haven't taken it.  This season we are trying to balance the finances with putting a competitive team on the park, which is why we have a reduced budget and a hybrid system - which if you go down the team shows a lot of pretty unremarkable names, with a few expections.  The "begging bowls" weren't brought out because we hadn't been active for a week - the crowdfunding schemes were put in place as the board knew that there would be zero chance of football being played in the months to come - and were brought out early enough before the lockdown stopped people spending money. If anything, the "begging bowls" makes me proud - our fans have rallied together to help our club.  Not sure what else clubs like us can do.  If our board had sacrificed playing budget as they were putting a bit aside in case a global pandemic halts world football for half a year, I cant imagine that going down too well.

I dont doubt that as a club we are acting out of self interest.  Falkirk are too, and the only reason Falkirk as a club or their fans are unhappy about this is that it doesn't benefit them.  Add in a 2 up clause and you guys will be all for it (quite rightly) even though that isnt fair to Airdrie and Montrose, your fellow playoff clubs. 

All of your fans have pretty much universally hate this league so far this season and would do anything to get out of it. Try being here for 3 years on the spin   Whilst I dont doubt that Falkirk are a very well run club, theres no guarantee that you wouldnt too be struggling having been playing League 1 football for 3 years.  You may see the prize money on offer in this league as "peanuts", it likely is compared to the leagues above, but that wont be the case if your club dont get out this league.

Falkirk and ourselves both need out of this league ASAP, doesn't matter how well you run your club - cant stay here forever and remain competitive.  This is probably our last roll of the dice this season.

Edited April 10, 2020 by CALDERON

[As Easterly as it gets!]

43 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

The Falkirk board statement is an absolute embarrassment btw. It essentially says "we'll vote for it if you put us up".

We aren't an easy club to like if you look at it dispassionately. 

I wouldn't worry about it. Every club with a vested interest in the outcome of promotion/ relegation will be saying the same. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by As Easterly as it gets!
Missed a sentence

[cb_diamond]

Tremendous reading the past few pages. You as a club are exactly where you deserve to be and hopefully still will be next season and for many seasons to come. Hilarious basket case of a club + rabid, entitled, unrealistic fans = megalolz

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Its partly a voice of reason, but being shite doesnt mean we should eat our cereal and vote through a shite proposal. Maybe Ray McKinnon, or Miller and McCracken would have did some thing differently if he though the season was ending in March?

I doubt much would have changed if any of them had taken up knitting.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

11 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said:

They're quite happy to take the cash as their chairman stated their desperate for it. 

It’s very evident that he is running Raith beyond its means. 

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

We're holding noone back. As I said the priority should be getting money to skint clubs like yourselves but no we're clouding that whole issue by asking clubs to vote on relegating other teams  or shafting themselves of a chance of promotion just to get that cash released.  The two should not be linked. In england lower league clubs are getting prize money early without having to sign up to shaft other clubs. No reason why we couldnt follow suit.If the vote ends up a no and teams like raith end up going down the shitter then I'm afraid u have noone to blame but yourselves.

Falkirk aren't being shafted of a chance of promotion though. The season won't continue to a finish, so whether it's null and void, the current proposal or some variation  of the Dundee, The Rangers and Hearts proposal then Falkirk are going nowhere.

The only way Falkirk gain out of the current situation is via reconstruction, which is why your board put such an emphasis on that idea in their statement. Well and good, each club must look after itself. 

I don't think Clark is being necessarily untruthful when he emphasises the good to Scottish football of clubs getting the prize money. A good number of clubs in the lower three tiers live hand to mouth with very narrow room for manoeuvre in terms of finances. If that weren't the case this proposal wouldn't have gotten as far as it has. 

Clark has repeatedly mentioned why Raith are against Null and Void. So it's not like the club is hiding that fact. It's perfectly possible for Clark to note Rovers self interest in the current proposal while noting that it is also to the benefit of the game to keep clubs solvent. Maybe he could be looking harder to see if there is a solution that releases money independent of the league finishing, but why should he? Reading Falkirk's statement it doesn't seem like they are particularly interested in finding routes to releasing money to clubs, why should they be, paragons of financial rectitude that they are? They just want a solution that restores them to the second tier and those revenue streams.

So, no Rovers self interest is not any worse than Falkirk's. Rovers self interest may better align to the immediate needs of the game better than Falkirk's currently does. I dont think Clark is a hypocrite in that case.

As to the rest, our fans inquired as to how the club could be helped and the club responded by setting up the Just Giving page. A laudable effort to make the most of the goodwill while it's there. How necessary it is for the club to make it through the Summer, I dont know. It was set up prior to the furlough scheme. Other clubs will be in the same boat.

Two questions do spring to mind:

1) for argument's sake, let's say the SPFL produce paperwork that categorically states that the prize money can only be released with the final league positions and associated promotion/delegations. Lets say the two were inextricably linked: would you still want to vote No?

2) Reconstruction is proposed that lifts Falkirk but screws over Airdrie and Montrose. Do you vote Yes?

[Shadwell Dog]

19 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Wee bit harsh.  We are run a lot better than we were, but paying the price for the club being run as a basket case for years.  There has always been the easy option available of Admin, and we haven't taken it.  This season we are trying to balance the finances with putting a competitive team on the park, which is why we have a reduced budget and a hybrid system - which if you go down the team shows a lot of pretty unremarkable names, with a few expections.  The "begging bowls" weren't brought out because we hadn't been active for a week - the crowdfunding schemes were put in place as the board knew that there would be zero chance of football being played in the months to come - and were brought out early enough before the lockdown stopped people spending money. If anything, the "begging bowls" makes me proud - our fans have rallied together to help our club.  Not sure what else clubs like us can do.  If our board had sacrificed playing budget as they were putting a bit aside in case a global pandemic halts world football for half a year, I cant imagine that going down too well.

I dont doubt that as a club we are acting out of self interest.  Falkirk are too, and the only reason Falkirk as a club or their fans are unhappy about this is that it doesn't benefit them.  Add in a 2 up clause and you guys will be all for it (quite rightly) even though that isnt fair to Airdrie and Montrose, your fellow playoff clubs. 

All of your fans have pretty much universally hate this league so far this season and would do anything to get out of it. Try being here for 3 years on the spin   Whilst I dont doubt that Falkirk are a very well run club, theres no guarantee that you wouldnt too be struggling having been playing League 1 football for 3 years.  You may see the prize money on offer in this league as "peanuts", it likely is compared to the leagues above, but that wont be the case if your club dont get out this league.

Falkirk and ourselves both need out of this league ASAP, doesn't matter how well you run your club - cant stay here forever and remain competitive.  This is probably our last roll of the dice this season.

Of course its self interest but clubs are being forced to go up against one another by the powers that be. There should be one vote today and one vote only and that is to release prize money early so that clubs that are on the verge have money to get themselves through. Nothing else should matter at this stage as otherwise your only putting barriers up to get this cash to clubs. That vote would go through no problem I would imagine and would give clubs breathing space to discuss properly a concrete proposal on where we go from here regarding promotion relegation etc. If the clubs that are saying we're voting yes for the future of scottish football really meant it they would be pushing for this and not the current proposal where well run clubs are being asked to save others who aren't as well run whilst shifting themselves but they aren't. Their quite happy to take the benefits that come along with being saved fi financially. It's the same old story that has damaged the scottish game for years. The top flight get what they want by creating infighting and animosity between the smaller clubs who they know will only get real change if they stick together.  This is another opportunity to perhaps get real change but the clubs in league one and two are just happy to get what benefits them whether it shafted their compatriots at that level or not. That reinforces my feeling that things will never change.

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, renton said:

Falkirk aren't being shafted of a chance of promotion though. The season won't continue to a finish, so whether it's null and void, the current proposal or some variation  of the Dundee, The Rangers and Hearts proposal then Falkirk are going nowhere.

The only way Falkirk gain out of the current situation is via reconstruction, which is why your board put such an emphasis on that idea in their statement. Well and good, each club must look after itself. 

I don't think Clark is being necessarily untruthful when he emphasises the good to Scottish football of clubs getting the prize money. A good number of clubs in the lower three tiers live hand to mouth with very narrow room for manoeuvre in terms of finances. If that weren't the case this proposal wouldn't have gotten as far as it has. 

Clark has repeatedly mentioned why Raith are against Null and Void. So it's not like the club is hiding that fact. It's perfectly possible for Clark to note Rovers self interest in the current proposal while noting that it is also to the benefit of the game to keep clubs solvent. Maybe he could be looking harder to see if there is a solution that releases money independent of the league finishing, but why should he? Reading Falkirk's statement it doesn't seem like they are particularly interested in finding routes to releasing money to clubs, why should they be, paragons of financial rectitude that they are? They just want a solution that restores them to the second tier and those revenue streams.

So, no Rovers self interest is not any worse than Falkirk's. Rovers self interest may better align to the immediate needs of the game better than Falkirk's currently does. I dont think Clark is a hypocrite in that case.

As to the rest, our fans inquired as to how the club could be helped and the club responded by setting up the Just Giving page. A laudable effort to make the most of the goodwill while it's there. How necessary it is for the club to make it through the Summer, I dont know. It was set up prior to the furlough scheme. Other clubs will be in the same boat.

Two questions do spring to mind:

1) for argument's sake, let's say the SPFL produce paperwork that categorically states that the prize money can only be released with the final league positions and associated promotion/delegations. Lets say the two were inextricably linked: would you still want to vote No?

2) Reconstruction is proposed that lifts Falkirk but screws over Airdrie and Montrose. Do you vote Yes?

We're voting on basing the season results on a random weekend in march so you cant say to me that the clubs cant vote to release some more of the prize money at an early stage ffs. And going by what your saying your chairman would be voting yes even if the positions are reversed  which I find impossible to believe.

[renton]

Just now, Shadwell Dog said:

We're voting on basing the season results on a random weekend in march so you cant say to me that the clubs cant vote to release some more of the prize money at an early stage ffs. And going by what your saying your chairman would be voting yes even if the positions are reversed  which I find impossible to believe.

Well, you've repeatedly referred to Rovers as skint and made reference to our begging bowls. Given you believe we dont have any money, how is it a stretch to believe we wouldn't vote Yes in a reversed position? 

As to the first bit, what I'm asking is a theoretical: if there literally was no way of doing it, that is, releasing money without calling the league and the subsequent promotions and relegations - if you knew that for a fact, would you still advocate a vote against?

[Grangemouth Bairn]

12 minutes ago, renton said:

Falkirk aren't being shafted of a chance of promotion though. The season won't continue to a finish, so whether it's null and void, the current proposal or some variation  of the Dundee, The Rangers and Hearts proposal then Falkirk are going nowhere.

The only way Falkirk gain out of the current situation is via reconstruction, which is why your board put such an emphasis on that idea in their statement. Well and good, each club must look after itself. 

I don't think Clark is being necessarily untruthful when he emphasises the good to Scottish football of clubs getting the prize money. A good number of clubs in the lower three tiers live hand to mouth with very narrow room for manoeuvre in terms of finances. If that weren't the case this proposal wouldn't have gotten as far as it has. 

Clark has repeatedly mentioned why Raith are against Null and Void. So it's not like the club is hiding that fact. It's perfectly possible for Clark to note Rovers self interest in the current proposal while noting that it is also to the benefit of the game to keep clubs solvent. Maybe he could be looking harder to see if there is a solution that releases money independent of the league finishing, but why should he? Reading Falkirk's statement it doesn't seem like they are particularly interested in finding routes to releasing money to clubs, why should they be, paragons of financial rectitude that they are? They just want a solution that restores them to the second tier and those revenue streams.

So, no Rovers self interest is not any worse than Falkirk's. Rovers self interest may better align to the immediate needs of the game better than Falkirk's currently does. I dont think Clark is a hypocrite in that case.

As to the rest, our fans inquired as to how the club could be helped and the club responded by setting up the Just Giving page. A laudable effort to make the most of the goodwill while it's there. How necessary it is for the club to make it through the Summer, I dont know. It was set up prior to the furlough scheme. Other clubs will be in the same boat.

Two questions do spring to mind:

1) for argument's sake, let's say the SPFL produce paperwork that categorically states that the prize money can only be released with the final league positions and associated promotion/delegations. Lets say the two were inextricably linked: would you still want to vote No?

2) Reconstruction is proposed that lifts Falkirk but screws over Airdrie and Montrose. Do you vote Yes?

Did you board set up a ‘Just Giving’ page when a lot of Scottish football fans are going through tough times financially, emotionally and mentally ??

[CALDERON]

4 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Did you board set up a ‘Just Giving’ page when a lot of Scottish football fans are going through tough times financially, emotionally and mentally ??

The board set the page up prior to the lockdown, in the days after the Scottish football shutdown.  Before it was really clear how things are in the wider social and economic landscape. 

At the end of the day, the fans asked how they could help - and were given an option to help. The club have also made it clear that fans have to look after their own families and welfare first, and should only donate if they are comfortable to.

Don't really see what the problem is.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by CALDERON

[knee jerk reaction]

I don't think 1 or 2 should go up as it has to be fair, screwing over airdrie or east fife isn't right, just as raith going up wouldn't be fair. I'd say again look at the bigger picture, millions for Celtic and Rangers in prize money, share it out more equally. In Europe we have leagues being dominated by clubs as the European prize money gives them an advantage, we need to spread the wealth out or all leagues will end up uncompetitive for the benefit of a small number of clubs. It can't be right saying it's not fair if raith go up and we don't and then not look at everything else that is unfair and for the benefit of a few elite clubs. 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

7 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

The board set the page up prior to the lockdown, in the days after the Scottish football shutdown.  Before it was really clear how things are in the wider social and economic landscape. 

At the end of the day, the fans asked how they could help - and were given an option to help. The club have also made it clear that fans have to look after their own families and welfare first, and should only donate if they are comfortable to.

Don't really see what the problem is.  

Listen it’s peoples money and they can do what they like with it.

Just doesn’t feel right to me personally. Just an opinion though.

[Shadwell Dog]

7 minutes ago, renton said:

Well, you've repeatedly referred to Rovers as skint and made reference to our begging bowls. Given you believe we dont have any money, how is it a stretch to believe we wouldn't vote Yes in a reversed position? 

As to the first bit, what I'm asking is a theoretical: if there literally was no way of doing it, that is, releasing money without calling the league and the subsequent promotions and relegations - if you knew that for a fact, would you still advocate a vote against?

I can bet you now that if the vote comes out no a proposal to get the money out to teams who are struggling without deciding anything else will be on the table asap either that or a concrete proposal for league reconstruction.  I cant see the spfl sitting on millions of pounds watching clubs go bust. Too many clubs though are willing to drop their pants at the first offer instead of saying no come back to us with a better offer. 

[Shadwell Dog]

6 minutes ago, knee jerk reaction said:

I don't think 1 or 2 should go up as it has to be fair, screwing over airdrie or east fife isn't right, just as raith going up wouldn't be fair. I'd say again look at the bigger picture, millions for Celtic and Rangers in prize money, share it out more equally. In Europe we have leagues being dominated by clubs as the European prize money gives them an advantage, we need to spread the wealth out or all leagues will end up uncompetitive for the benefit of a small number of clubs. It can't be right saying it's not fair if raith go up and we don't and then not look at everything else that is unfair and for the benefit of a few elite clubs. 

It's a chance to do that but as usual noones interested in anything but themselves. The top flight must be lapping it up.  They can sit laughing whilst the smaller clubs fight amongst themselves knowing that when there was a chance of reconstruction the lower leagues couldnt get their act together to force it through.

[Specky Ginger]

13 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Did you board set up a ‘Just Giving’ page when a lot of Scottish football fans are going through tough times financially, emotionally and mentally ??

As said above, the board have stressed that people should only give what they feel they can afford and should not compromise their own welfare or that of their families. 

Obviously there's been a couple of large scale donations, but a lot of what's come in has been from people who have cancelled their Sky subscription and used the money to help the Rovers, or guys who have donated what they would have spent going to Peterhead four weeks ago, or on a home match day. 

 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

9 minutes ago, Specky Ginger said:

As said above, the board have stressed that people should only give what they feel they can afford and should not compromise their own welfare or that of their families. 

Obviously there's been a couple of large scale donations, but a lot of what's come in has been from people who have cancelled their Sky subscription and used the money to help the Rovers, or guys who have donated what they would have spent going to Peterhead four weeks ago, or on a home match day. 

 

Fair enough. As I’ve said, it’s just not an approach I agree with.

A lot of people could have spent their money a lot more sensibly during these unprecedented times.

And as for being told to only give what they can afford ?? We are all very passionate about football which means we are not always sensible.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Grangemouth Bairn

[CALDERON]

13 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Listen it’s peoples money and they can do what they like with it.

Just doesn’t feel right to me personally. Just an opinion though.

Aye thats fair enough.  

[RandomGuy.]

26 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Did you board set up a ‘Just Giving’ page when a lot of Scottish football fans are going through tough times financially, emotionally and mentally ??

Most clubs using...

https://mobile.twitter.com/DonateATicket

... where you simply donate the amount of money youd have paid out in terms of admission over the rest of the season.

Itll be minimal the higher up you go, but could save those at the bottom, and it's enitrely anonymous so you're under no pressure to do anything.