Nowhereman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes, if they form a new club from scratch as you or I could tomorrow and apply to our local amateur league. The potential difference comes if they transfer memberships, and league shares (SPL membership's done in shares), from AB Ltd to CD Ltd. But they did transfer their league membership etc. from one company to another? Yes its two different companies so presumably the English FA and English League must have allowed the existing league member to sell the membership to another company. Don't know what SFA rules say about that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWatt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Copied from STV report: Roddy Dunlop QC, representing the Ibrox club, claimed that Rangers could appoint administrators as the floating charge holder, owner Craig Whyte, had approved it. HMRC has disputed this, claiming Rangers could not call in administrators for five working days from lodging their notice of intent to appoint insolvency experts. Under the Insolvency Act 1986, companies have to give at least five days written notice before appointing an administrator after submitting a notice to the court It would be nice if Whyte had been outplayed at this early stage. As Whyte has a qualifying floating charge this enables him to appoint an administrator without the need for an order of the court. (The change was introduced by the Enterprise Act 2002) If HMRCs attempt to block this today in the Court of Session fails then it will be Whyte 1 0 HMRC. Whyte may be 'colourful' as Spiers euphemistically puts it but he is not daft. Edited February 14, 2012 by MacWatt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes, if they form a new club from scratch as you or I could tomorrow and apply to our local amateur league. The potential difference comes if they transfer memberships, and league shares (SPL membership's done in shares), from AB Ltd to CD Ltd. Surely that would open the door for all the clubs in Scotland to dump their existing company for another one and start debt-free from scratch? That's nothing but another form of cheating, and should never be allowed to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I've just posted my own note of caution on the main thread. It seems that administration is a facility for football clubs to largely dodge responsibility for financial imprudence. I'm no expert on the process, but it seems to me that Whyte has had this one up his sleeve for a while. Whether he is looking for personal gain is another question, but I suspect that Rangers as an entity will suffer a mere flesh wound regardless. How will it pan out? It wouldn't surprise me if Whyte has someone in the wings who will swoop in and assume ownership of Rangers for a song, but this time, minus the crippling debts. Whyte will get his 'cut', and Rangers will still be in a position to operate at a financial level way beyond the rest of Scottish football, Celtic excepted. It is sickening to contemplate, but they'll steer a way through this. Obviously the masterplan, the word patsy springs to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgf Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Surely that would open the door for all the clubs in Scotland to dump their existing company for another one and start debt-free from scratch? That's nothing but another form of cheating, and should never be allowed to happen. It's already happened many times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would assume the SFA would be able to transfer a membership in the same way the SPL can. It clearly happens; afterall, barely any clubs today are as they were in the Victorian era in terms of their legal/financial situation. I'm not suggesting it's easy-as-pie, btw, just liquidation doesn't necessarily mean "au revoir". It would probably go to the professional board. Comprising 10 members of which 4 will already be on board with an SPL plan (which I would imagine needs to happen first) Topping, Doncaster, Lawwell and Petrie. And if Hibs and Petrie are on board then the 2 Vice Presidents would probably fall into line as well. Giving the plan a clear majority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 As Whyte has a qualifying floating charge this enables him to appoint an administrator without the need for an order of the court. (The change was introduced by the Enterprise Act 2002) If HMRCs attempt to block this today in the Court of Session fails then it will be Whyte 1 – 0 HMRC. Whyte may be 'colourful' as Spiers euphemistically puts it but he is not daft. You obviously seem well versed in this. It has been reported that Whyte has a close personal relationship with the company he wants appointed as administrators (technically i think it is an individual rather than a company that is appointed but you get my point). Would the Court take this into account if HMRC were to raise it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 As Whyte has a qualifying floating charge this enables him to appoint an administrator without the need for an order of the court. (The change was introduced by the Enterprise Act 2002) If HMRCs attempt to block this today in the Court of Session fails then it will be Whyte 1 – 0 HMRC. Whyte may be 'colourful' as Spiers euphemistically puts it but he is not daft. 1-0, although i've got no idea what it actually means. If they're appointed does it secure his preferred creditor status? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 HMRC are panicking a bit here - and rightly so. Their debt is UNSECURED debt and someone in that organisation has royally fcuked up in allowing the payback negotiations to get to this point. They are staring at a major loss of potential revenue here after all. I'm beginning to wonder if there aren't personality issues involved here to complicate things further ? CW has SECURED debt and stands first in line to get money in ANY liquidation scenario. On the appointment of Administrators..... HMRC's petition is secondary to the initial one and is, in all likelyhood, pinned to the size of owings claimed. Rangers' petition is primary and is seeking to hold off the second (HMRC) one. Could be that neither petitioner gets to appoint an Administrator and that the Court will appoint one which BOTH PARTIES will have to accept. But - yes administration beckons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) From STV twitter Cara Sulieman#Rangers given until 3.30pm to appoint administrators. If they do HMRC's application will no longer stand. Edited February 14, 2012 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It would probably go to the professional board. Comprising 10 members of which 4 will already be on board with an SPL plan (which I would imagine needs to happen first) Topping, Doncaster, Lawwell and Petrie. And if Hibs and Petrie are on board then the 2 Vice Presidents would probably fall into line as well. Giving the plan a clear majority. Yes, plus remember Campell Ogilvie the President is ex-Rangers. If it went before Main Board then (IIRC) it's Ogilvie, Regan, the Cove bloke whose name escapes me, Petrie, plus Topping (from Pro Board) and Juniors Secretary Tom Johnstone (from Community Board), plus the independent director from United Brewers(?). Either way, SPL interest possesses potent voting strength. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 From STV twitter Cara Sulieman#Rangers given until 3.30pm to appoint administrators. If they do HMRC's application will no longer stand. Expect HMRC to attempt an appeal against that ruling..... they stand to have serious amounts of egg on their face if CW has his way with them.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So they'll officially enter Admin today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So they'll officially enter Admin today? Yes...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 HMRC are panicking a bit here - and rightly so. Their debt is UNSECURED debt and someone in that organisation has royally fcuked up in allowing the payback negotiations to get to this point. They are staring at a major loss of potential revenue here after all. I'm beginning to wonder if there aren't personality issues involved here to complicate things further ? CW has SECURED debt and stands first in line to get money in ANY liquidation scenario. On the appointment of Administrators..... HMRC's petition is secondary to the initial one and is, in all likelyhood, pinned to the size of owings claimed. Rangers' petition is primary and is seeking to hold off the second (HMRC) one. Could be that neither petitioner gets to appoint an Administrator and that the Court will appoint one which BOTH PARTIES will have to accept. But - yes administration beckons. The interesting point here is that in order to make the application then HMRC must ALREADY be owed a significant amount of money which is long overdue. They cannot apply to appoint an administrator on the basis of a likely outcome of a future tax case. Rangers must already be well behind with PAYE payments. Perhaps this was already commonly known but I wasn't conscious of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWatt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You obviously seem well versed in this. It has been reported that Whyte has a close personal relationship with the company he wants appointed as administrators (technically i think it is an individual rather than a company that is appointed but you get my point). Would the Court take this into account if HMRC were to raise it? It is this floating charge over the assets that gives Whyte secured creditor status and gives him wide latitude to appoint administrator and go along the pre-pack route. So it may simply be down to a ruling on whether it is lawful under the Enterprise Act. HMRC can subsequently object to such a pre-pack solution but the courts will take into account the interests of other stakeholders (such as fans and employees/players?), not merely those of the creditors. If the pre-pack was the only way of saving the jobs of the employees and in the affairs of the club being dealt with, with the minimum of disruption then this would influence the courts decision on such an appeal by HMRC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo Stu Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Looks like they will get their own administrators then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotelandywalker Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 1-0, although i've got no idea what it actually means. If they're appointed does it secure his preferred creditor status? You got your characters mixed up there ... it's actually -10 by 3:30pm today I hear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie-7 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 One of my Rangers pal's trying to tell me that they could exit Administration in 24 hours. Please tell me that he is deluded and talking absolute horse turd? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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