The DA Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Has anyone ever explained how King intends to get around section 216 of the Companies Act re: phoenixing. https://www.purnells.co.uk/limited-company/creditors-voluntary-liquidations/phoenix-companies/section-216-insolvency-act-1986.html I'm quite sure the SFA's fit and proper test will be circumvented, but the law seems pretty black and white here? From http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud_protection/phoenix_company_fraud Phoenix company fraud Phoenix company fraud happens after company goes bankrupt and a second company (known as a phoenix company) is started up overnight with the same directors. Although this is perfectly legal, fraud is committed when the directors abuse the phoenix company arrangement and transfer the assets of the failing company below their market value, before insolvency. More about phoenix company fraud When a company goes bankrupt, a second company can start up overnight with the same directors – but without any obligation to pay for the failed company’s losses. That’s because they appear to be different entities. This is known as a phoenix company. It’s perfectly legal to form a new company from the remains of a failed company. Any director of a failed company can become a director of a new company, unless he or she is: subject to a disqualification order or undertaking personally bankrupt subject to a bankruptcy restrictions order or undertaking. Fraud happens when directors abuse the phoenix company arrangement by transferring the assets of the failing company below their market value before insolvency. By doing this, the fraudulent directors reduce the funds available to creditors when the original company becomes insolvent. As a result, the creditors are left out of pocket for the goods or services they supplied. Once a company enters insolvency or liquidation proceedings, the creditors will be paid in order of priority from whatever remaining company funds are made available. If you’re a trade creditor, it’s likely that you’ll receive only a small proportion of the money you are owed. Clearly, this may result in serious financial loss and have a direct impact on your company’s ability to keep trading and stay solvent. In addition, business confidence in your company may suffer, your customer base might shrink and your suppliers may impose less favourable payment terms on you. This will impact on your cash flow and, again, adversely affect your company’s ability to stay solvent. Are you a victim of phoenix company fraud? You are a trade creditor owed funds from the insolvency of a company but can’t contact the company or get paid. You are a business that has suffered substantial financial loss after giving trade credit to a new business that has gone under. What should you do if you are a victim of phoenix company fraud? If you have a claim or an outstanding complaint against the failed company, don’t give up on it. Be persistent. You should not be put off if the phoenix company claims the failed company’s liabilities are not theirs, when both companies appear to be the same. Tell the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) about it. It can’t help with individual disputes between you and the phoenix company, but the generic problem of phoenix companies is a priority for the FCA. If you’re a creditor to a company undergoing insolvency, it’s essential that you help the official receiver or insolvency practitioner to understand the causes of failure. They have a duty to investigate the affairs of companies in compulsory liquidation and report evidence of criminal offences to a prosecuting agency. If you believe that the company is withholding information about its assets, or if you have information about the conduct of the company, you should contact the official receiver or insolvency practitioner with the relevant facts. Protect yourself against phoenix company fraud Most phoenix companies are perfectly legitimate businesses. But, as with any new customer, you should vet them carefully first. In particular, follow up trade references and check the directors’ credentials. Find out why the previous company failed and ensure the directors aren’t serial abusers of the phoenix company arrangement. You can find information on company directors from Companies House or by getting hold of a status report from a credit ratings agency. Only extend trade credit if you are confident that you will be paid on time. If you suspect that an individual is acting in breach of a disqualification or bankruptcy order, you should report them to the Insolvency Service. It’s a criminal offence to contravene a disqualification order or undertaking, a bankruptcy order, a bankruptcy restrictions order or undertaking. It’s also a criminal offence for another person to assist a disqualified person to act in this way. Anyone who contravenes the order or undertaking could become personally liable for any debts a company incurs while the order or undertaking is contravened. Anybody who carries out that person’s instructions may also be personally liable. Interesting. A slightly different slant on the whole phoenix thing. This doesn't mention disqualification of directors but it does say that 'Fraud happens when directors abuse the phoenix company arrangement by transferring the assets of the failing company below their market value before insolvency.'. Would anyone say that happened? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIEA Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Has anyone ever explained how King intends to get around section 216 of the Companies Act re: phoenixing. https://www.purnells.co.uk/limited-company/creditors-voluntary-liquidations/phoenix-companies/section-216-insolvency-act-1986.html I'm quite sure the SFA's fit and proper test will be circumvented, but the law seems pretty black and white here? Very much this! If the " real " authorities start taking an interest which they haven't as yet then this could get very messy ( funny ) very quickly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The problem is Newcastle fans suffer from the same disease Rangers fans do in expecting to be far better than they are regardless of the situation. He's turned them into a club who make a profit and are steadily rising up the league sustainably. Thats his pedigree. Whats Dave Kings pedigree with owning a football club? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 He has no interest in Newcastle being successful, he is only interested in bleeding the fans dry and using that profitability to his (sports direct) benefit, he does this by constantly lying to them. No. Thats what the fans, who've hated him from day one, are saying. Look at the facts instead of their conjecture. Ashley have got Newcastle comfortably in the top flight, and turning a profit. Dave King was part of the board that saw Rangers die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This light at the end of the tunnel that the P'n'B berrz see..... ....probably another oncoming train,eh? Hopefully the old club / new club issue will be resolved when King triggers an Administration event and the points that the SPFL deduct reflects whether it is a first or second occurance for Rangers / The Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) And woah, Somers' resignation letter is a bit of a peach. Full text: "When I was approached about the chairmanship of Rangers, friends warned me that the world of football has different rules and codes of behaviour. I now know that is a gross understatement. "I am a non-confrontational man and have always tried to bring harmony to boardrooms and with stakeholders. "At the risk of antagonising my army of critics I would point out that Rangers managed to pay its bills and avoid going under during my tenure. These critics might not agree with how we achieved this. "I look forward to alternative solutions from whoever is running the club in the future. "Despite the personal attacks on me from various sources I genuinely wish the club the very best in the future and I am confident that with such a passionate and vociferous fan base they will be restored to their former glories." http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/312239-rangers-chairman-david-somers-resigns-as-dave-king-prepares-for-control/ --- To translate that, from polite businessese: "friends warned me that the world of football has different rules and codes of behaviour. I now know that is a gross understatement": Thank Christ I won't have to look at these godawful plebs any more. "I am a non-confrontational man and have always tried to bring harmony to boardrooms and with stakeholders": I'm pretending it wasn't me who put in that hilarious giving-everyone-the-finger AGM performance. "my army of critics": Shower of absolute zoomers. "I would point out that Rangers managed to pay its bills and avoid going under during my tenure": If Rangers fans want to be angrier with the men who kept the doors on the Big Hoose open than they are at the men who wound up getting them padlocked, then Hell mend them. "I look forward to alternative solutions from whoever is running the club in the future": The club's finances are hopelessly fvcked and I will laugh and fondle myself watching Dave King trying to milk this particular dead cat. The biggest FU of the lot, this one. "I genuinely wish the club the very best in the future and I am confident that with such a passionate and vociferous fan base they will be restored to their former glories": I hope the club folds and you're all miserable, you shower of absolute zoomers. they paid bills and stayed open on his watch. Now that he's gone let's see if they can stay open long enough for the egm to happen. Oh and when are wages due to be paid. .? Edited March 2, 2015 by scottxs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Doncaster already clarified the matter...apologies for reminding you Doncaster confirmed it IS an oncoming train? michty me! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 He has no interest in Newcastle being successful, he is only interested in bleeding the fans dry and using that profitability to his (sports direct) benefit, he does this by constantly lying to them. ???? Silly Newcastle fans... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 They owe Mike Ashley £130M that is one hundred and thirty millions, he creams off all of the profitable stuff for himself...not the club, the fans loathe him, that's the facts. And that, as the saying goes, is business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Doncaster already clarified the matter...apologies for reminding you That'll be the learned Judge Doncaster? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printer Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Just walked past Paul Murray walking on Grove Street in Edinburgh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You can actually taste the seed. FTFY. Settle down. Only a few more days to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Just walked past Paul Murray walking on Grove Street in Edinburgh. Did he look prosperous? Enough to float a football club perhaps? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Rangers fans not get all uppity and excited when Mr White came to power and how did that end up.? And then the same when Mr Greene came to save them? And now the same arrogance with Mr king is almost here. Now there are some decent Rangers fans out there and I do feel sorry for them, but then you get the knuckledraggers on here and you hope it all goes Horribly for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Name one.not on p&b but I've got some family that are decent people and support the Rangers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 They owe Mike Ashley £130M that is one hundred and thirty millions, he creams off all of the profitable stuff for himself...not the club, the fans loathe him, that's the facts. You do realise the overwhelming majority of football club owners own football clubs to try and make money out of them? Please tell me you realise that. They don't do it for love of the club, even if they do love the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 They owe Mike Ashley £130M that is one hundred and thirty millions, he creams off all of the profitable stuff for himself...not the club, the fans loathe him, that's the facts. The reason they owe Ashley £130 million is that he lent the club the money. Nobody else would have. The man is the saviour of NUFC, not the villain of the piece. Newcastle and Rangers fans seem to share the same distorted view of their "rightful place" in the world, and that someone else should pay for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Rangers fans not get all uppity and excited when Mr White came to power and how did that end up.? And then the same when Mr Greene came to save them? And now the same arrogance with Mr king is almost here. Now there are some decent Rangers fans out there and I do feel sorry for them, but then you get the knuckledraggers on here and you hope it all goes Horribly for them. Knuckledraggers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Knuckledraggers? scottxs is maybe a bit strong with 'knuckledraggers' 'zoomers' would be a better word. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You do realise the overwhelming majority of football club owners own football clubs to try and make money out of them? Please tell me you realise that. They don't do it for love of the club, even if they do love the club. Utter nonsense. Very few businessmen make money from football clubs. They invest in clubs for a whole host of reasons and making money for themselves would not be anywhere near the top of the list 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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