Sportsound Watch

[kingjoey]

Very disappointed with Tom English today, who before this crisis all kicked off I really liked, in that he was intent on trapping Donald Findlay into going back on things that he was saying. The only one who did actually get trapped was Levein after he said that he doubted that Hearts would ever loan another player to Cowdenbeath. The second that Findlay had a go at him about that, you could tell that he realised that he’d made an arse of himself with that one. Never, ever thought that I would find myself saying that the only person that came out of the discussion today with any credit was Donald Findlay.  Again nobody acknowledging that the permanent reconstruction to a top league of 14 would have been a horror story, which is where all the arguments fell down.

[Florentine_Pogen]

7 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Is anyone really surprised, eminent QC, Donald Findlay is running rings round these mugs? His personal views might be on the iffy side, but he's not daft.

Findlay must have had a wee chuckle to himself when he was told he'd be up against Levein and English.

Like throwing sticks for a blind dug..........................

[arab_joe]

13 hours ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

As we saw when Rangers died and the likes of Billy Dodds attempted to dissect insolvency and tax laws, the usual suspects on Sportsound are embarrassingly out of their depth when confronted with a complex topic and someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I have listened to the Sportsound podcast every day for the past 5 or 6 years.  It is far from perfect, I know (how could any podcast be perfect that regularly features Willie Miller and Chick Young?), but generally it is a good listen and passes the time on my commute.  During this lockdown, however, it has been absolutely brutal.  Truly painful stuff.

At least Off the Ball had the brainwave to call in someone with a Masters in public health (from Harvard, no less...) to discuss public health.  Having the likes of Neil McCann and James McFadden (both brilliant footballers, don't get me wrong, and even decent pundits) debating epidemiology is genuinely ridiculous.  Almost as ridiculous of the time that Derek Ferguson and Billy Dodds were invited on to have a balanced debate about Rangers' orange tops and how they were "because there were lots of Dutch players at the club" and absolutely nothing to do with sectarianism. 

13 hours ago, theoriginalhedge said:

As long as Tom English is continually put in his place then the BBC might actually realise that he is indeed just a bar room bore with a massive chip on his shoulder. 

The odd thing is that, historically, Tom English was frequently the voice of reason when those around him talked absolute nonsense (especially the aforementioned Willie Miller and Packie Bonner, who luckily has not been called upon much recently as Celtic have not been playing).  This lockdown seems to have genuinely rattled him - he has barely made a rational argument since it started.

12 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Is anyone really surprised, eminent QC, Donald Findlay is running rings round these mugs? His personal views might be on the iffy side, but he's not daft.

I've seen Donald Findlay in Court and he can run rings around the most intelligent minds - with this bunch it is like taking sweets from a baby...

8 hours ago, Spring Onion said:

Tom English has really came across badly since this kicked off. It's not even because of the side he is batting for, but more the way he is unable to ask a question normally and listen then react to the answer. If he doesn't get the answer he wants then he just repeats it over and over. He has not appeared to be able to deal with interviewees or fellow panelists who explain things to him or right his wrongs. He becomes very petulant and stubborn and likes to put words in people's mouth.

Can't argue with any of that.

5 hours ago, kingjoey said:

The only one who did actually get trapped was Levein after he said that he doubted that Hearts would ever loan another player to Cowdenbeath. The second that Findlay had a go at him about that, you could tell that he realised that he’d made an arse of himself with that one. 

Craig Levein embarrassed himself by saying that Hearts would withdraw the loaning of players - it was hilarious to hear him backtrack when Donald Findlay told him off (who made a good point - what hope does Scottish football have if these are the people in charge).  Levein needs a holiday - perhaps him and English can both go away when the airports re-open...

[Jacksgranda]

I'm listening to it at the moment, 10 minutes in. Findlay's running rings round them. Levein sounded very petty with his "loan" comment, shouldn't even be dignified with an answer.

I'm surprised nobody picked up on "this has never happened before" (teams being relegated without the season finishing), after the war the divisions were reorganised and a few teams who had been in the top flight were "expelled", Cowdenbeath among them.

[Dons_1988]

FIndlay wasn't that great tbh but f**k me, Tom English got absolutely shown up. Just a screeching journalist with child like attempts to catch Findlay out.

'Did you pick up the phone to Hearts?' was the point you felt the referee should have stopped the fight. I'm not entirely sure why Levein was even there.

More broadly, I don't understand why the likes of English can't get their head around that 'natural justice' doesn't exist here. 

'Is this natural justice, Donald?'

Well no, Tom, clearly it's not but it's the least worst method of navigating an incredibly difficult situation. There is plenty of sympathy for Hearts/Partick/Stranraer here but none of the alternatives explored have met the needs of the other member clubs. So that's it. You can't just keep shouting 'It's not fair!!!' on the radio.

 

[Zing.]

Tom English continually missing how relegation from League Two works was a highlight for me. 

 

[EdinburghPar1975]

10 hours ago, Spring Onion said:

You were going to get relegated, one thing we can guarantee is that Hearts were going down Craig. Even since you left, they were going down. 

Loved it. 

The one thing I was hoping was going to be said was to point out to Levein that he had actually done more to relegate Hearts than either the SPFL board or the clubs voting against reconstruction. If he had an ounce of competency in his spell as manager, and with the budget at his disposal, then Hearts would've been nowhere near the bottom of the table.

Levein can bang on about things being unfair but lets be completely honest - if Hearts had beaten St Mirren in the last pre-lockdown game this whole situation wouldn't be happening. There would be no look into reconstruction, no threats against the league and no attempts to try and be the saviours of all that is fair and good....Hearts would've let St Mirren, Hamilton or whoever fall and there is no way they'd have went for reconstruction if they were 11th...

[Green Day]

11 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

FIndlay wasn't that great tbh but f**k me, Tom English got absolutely shown up. Just a screeching journalist with child like attempts to catch Findlay out.

'Did you pick up the phone to Hearts?' was the point you felt the referee should have stopped the fight. I'm not entirely sure why Levein was even there.

I think Findlay kept his powder dry for most of this. He is many things, but not daft - he knew he was invited on the show as the punchbag for English.

The part in bold was pathetic.

Findlay was making the - very valid - point that if you want to garner support for a resolution, you hit the phones and chat to everyone involved, see if there are any issues to iron out etc.

His point was that Budge had just made a few public statements and assumed that everyone would agree that saving Hearts was paramount regardless of the fallout.

English was apoplectic at this and didnt even explore the point or discuss the rather obvious downsides of the reconstruction proposals.

English has never once looked at this from the view of the other clubs, indeed if we are being truthful from the view of anyone except Hearts.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Green Day said:

English has never once looked at this from the view of the other clubs, indeed if we are being truthful from the view of anyone except Hearts.

He's heard a few chairmen say they have sympathy with Hearts and translated it into 'this is the greatest footballing injustice seen in British football for a generation' and that clubs have just voted to carry it out.

The truth is that clubs were open to 'righting a wrong' as long as it balanced out with their own needs and met certain requirements of a reconstruction, both for themselves and the game as a whole. No reconstruction proposal came close to doing that.

Why? Because permanent reconstruction isn't something you can chuck together in a few weeks. This was obvious from day 1.

[The Minertaur]

Just listening to this right now.  I'm aware of the image a lot of people have of Donald Findlay but obviously I know him mainly as the Cowdenbeath chairman.  He's a smart guy and comes across well in my interactions with him.  He's excellent on the podcast.

Levein - did he actually put across any point that wasn't just "it's unfair"?

Tom "come on" English - clearly favouring Levein the whole way through but still coming across as an idiot

Love the Hearts fans moaning about it on Twitter.

 

[theauldyin]

12 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

Just listening to this right now.  I'm aware of the image a lot of people have of Donald Findlay but obviously I know him mainly as the Cowdenbeath chairman.  He's a smart guy and comes across well in my interactions with him.  He's excellent on the podcast.

Levein - did he actually put across any point that wasn't just "it's unfair"?

Tom "come on" English - clearly favouring Levein the whole way through but still coming across as an idiot

Love the Hearts fans moaning about it on Twitter.

 

WOH CAREFUL !! they will no lend you any players 

[rainbowrising]

2 hours ago, The Minertaur said:

Just listening to this right now.  I'm aware of the image a lot of people have of Donald Findlay but obviously I know him mainly as the Cowdenbeath chairman.  He's a smart guy and comes across well in my interactions with him.  He's excellent on the podcast.

Levein - did he actually put across any point that wasn't just "it's unfair"?

Tom "come on" English - clearly favouring Levein the whole way through but still coming across as an idiot

Love the Hearts fans moaning about it on Twitter.

 

People mix up the dyed in the wool *** with someone regarded very high as a QC. He defended Craig Whyte in the case that fell apart for the prosecution. As a QC he wont give much shrift to "it's no fair". 

Edited June 16, 2020 by rainbowrising

[ropy]

‘Setting aside your argument, what about my argument?’

[ropy]

Are the BBC rallying around Hearts simply to protect their documentary?

[The Minertaur]

Since I started supporting Cowden in 2000 we've always had an excellent relationship with Hearts.  We've had loan players such as Craig Gordon and more recently Lewis Moore get their first real playing experience at Central Park.

We've also had:

David Armstrong, John Armstrong, Matthew Doherty, Jordan Morton, Stephen Simmons not to mention the fact that we put Liam Fox in charge to basically aid in his development so he could return to Hearts in the future.

For Levein to basically say that there's no chance Hearts would loan us anymore players for voting against this sums up how petty a man he really is.  Cowdenbeath voted in the best interests of Cowdenbeath. We did not vote to spite Hearts which is the point which both Tom and Craig seemed to not understand.

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, rainbowrising said:

People mix up the died in the wool *** with someone regarded very high as a QC. He defended Craig Whyte in the case that fell apart for the prosecution. As a QC he wont give much shrift to "it's no fair". 

TBF defending Craig Whyte would be like petitioning the BMA to get Harold Shipman's right to practice back.

[CM.]

11 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

Since I started supporting Cowden in 2000 we've always had an excellent relationship with Hearts.  We've had loan players such as Craig Gordon and more recently Lewis Moore get their first real playing experience at Central Park.

We've also had:

David Armstrong, John Armstrong, Matthew Doherty, Jordan Morton, Stephen Simmons not to mention the fact that we put Liam Fox in charge to basically aid in his development so he could return to Hearts in the future.

For Levein to basically say that there's no chance Hearts would loan us anymore players for voting against this sums up how petty a man he really is.  Cowdenbeath voted in the best interests of Cowdenbeath. We did not vote to spite Hearts which is the point which both Tom and Craig seemed to not understand.

Jordan Morton - we're still waiting on a friendly against Hearts which was part of the deal for them signing him from us when he was a youngster.

Genuinly can't get over Levein's comment about Hearts not sending any more players out on loan to Cowdenbeath. Hopefully that actually is the case for any club that's voted against reconstruction as the loanee they sent us this season was rotten.

[NJ2]

Since I started supporting Cowden in 2000 we've always had an excellent relationship with Hearts.  We've had loan players such as Craig Gordon and more recently Lewis Moore get their first real playing experience at Central Park.
We've also had:
David Armstrong, John Armstrong, Matthew Doherty, Jordan Morton, Stephen Simmons not to mention the fact that we put Liam Fox in charge to basically aid in his development so he could return to Hearts in the future.
For Levein to basically say that there's no chance Hearts would loan us anymore players for voting against this sums up how petty a man he really is.  Cowdenbeath voted in the best interests of Cowdenbeath. We did not vote to spite Hearts which is the point which both Tom and Craig seemed to not understand.

Levein thankfully is no longer employed by us. Most of our players would be lucky to get a game for Cowdenbeath anyway.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

FIndlay wasn't that great tbh but f**k me, Tom English got absolutely shown up. Just a screeching journalist with child like attempts to catch Findlay out.

'Did you pick up the phone to Hearts?' was the point you felt the referee should have stopped the fight. I'm not entirely sure why Levein was even there.

More broadly, I don't understand why the likes of English can't get their head around that 'natural justice' doesn't exist here. 

'Is this natural justice, Donald?'

Well no, Tom, clearly it's not but it's the least worst method of navigating an incredibly difficult situation. There is plenty of sympathy for Hearts/Partick/Stranraer here but none of the alternatives explored have met the needs of the other member clubs. So that's it. You can't just keep shouting 'It's not fair!!!' on the radio.

 

Findlay wasn't great as he never had to get out of second gear. English made a rip roaring c**t of it. Levein was like the mate who stands beside you saying stupid shite that you can't keep under control. You end up with a hiding while he walks away unscathed.

[Aim Here]

8 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Findlay wasn't great as he never had to get out of second gear. English made a rip roaring c**t of it. Levein was like the mate who stands beside you saying stupid shite that you can't keep under control. You end up with a hiding while he walks away unscathed.

That pretty much characterises Hearts relationship with Craig Levein these past couple of years.