The Arbroath Thread

[clashcityrocker]

The likelihood is we will avoid the play offs due to the teams below us being unable to win their games ( although I would be cautious in assuming Cove won't beat Dundee - anything is possible in this league) !

The season will end as it began with DC urgently needing to recruit 2 championship level strikers - he will have a window of opportunity to do this in the summer months.

If we do avoid the play offs this will be a great achievement for a part time club to have remained the Championship for 5 years and we can learn from the mistakes made at the start of the season.

It's not over yet, but I suspect we will be safe (but only just).

 

[ExiledLichtie]

56 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

 

 (still don’t know how to play against teams setup defensively)

Absolutely key I think. When we were first promoted as plucky wee Arbroath, I think teams just assumed they could come to the wee part timers and roll us over, and we thrived against that.  But by now, we are no longer seen as plucky wee Arbroath full of bus drivers and posties.  Teams come to Gayfield set up defensively and designed to counter our style.  Some teams still have the arrogance to assume we will roll over (hi Dundee!), but most don't.  Its partly why we are better away from home, and its why we can get points from the top teams, while hanging on for dear life against our fellow strugglers.

Can the management adapt?

 

[timlichtie]

Cove got the points yesterday because we were awful in front of goal. They’re poor defensively. I’m fairly confident that Dundee will win at a canter and we’ll go to Partick to enjoy a decent away day. 
Nobody at the Club can be under any illusions about what’s needed in the summer. I’ve heard quite a lot of encouraging stories about signings and I really can’t see this season’s mistakes being repeated.

Somebody has already mentioned the playing surface. Gayfield used to be famed for its pitch. Yesterday it looked hard and bumpy. I lost count of the number of shots that went high. Could the state of the pitch be contributing to our poor home form?

 

[1320Lichtie]

6 minutes ago, timlichtie said:

Cove got the points yesterday because we were awful in front of goal. They’re poor defensively. I’m fairly confident that Dundee will win at a canter and we’ll go to Partick to enjoy a decent away day. 
Nobody at the Club can be under any illusions about what’s needed in the summer. I’ve heard quite a lot of encouraging stories about signings and I really can’t see this season’s mistakes being repeated.

Somebody has already mentioned the playing surface. Gayfield used to be famed for its pitch. Yesterday it looked hard and bumpy. I lost count of the number of shots that went high. Could the state of the pitch be contributing to our poor home form?

 

100 percent makes it harder to play football at home but don’t think there’s much that we can actually do about it although certainly not an expert in that department, just the mental weather is it 

[ecto]

4 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

I’ve a feeling all 3 teams are going to end up on 33 points and we’ll stay up on goal difference.

No matter how anyone spins it, this has been a dreadful season. My worry is that the management have learned nothing (still don’t know how to play against teams setup defensively) and we’ll get more of the same next season. It looks like a stronger league next season too so it’s unlikely there’ll be teams as bad as Accies, Cove or us. Also can’t imagine any team shitting the bed like Cove did in getting rid of McIntyre.

Big changes needed.

Had exactly the same thought today, about all three teams finishing on 33pts 

[DUAFC]

From 36 games that's got to be some sort of record....

[Smokerson]

Think we’ll get to 35 possibly even 36/37, We’ve been pretty good at picking up points away from home since January and as poor as we’ve been at home I don’t think Hamilton will beat us. 
 

Hamilton and cove are the two poorest teams I’ve seen in the championship in the last 5 years. It’s no real achievement to finish above them but looks like job done. With 5 minutes to go away to Cove I would’ve bitten your hand off for our current position. 

[farflung lichtie]

Too much pessimism after that really poor showing on Saturday.  As usual, expectations around that single game were somewhat inflated - a common pattern for Arbroath over the decades - so seasoned observers are familiar with the deflation that followed.  The big crowd, even the lively young ultra mob, were strangely quiet the whole second half so I feel we collectively shared in that poor showing.

Once again, the closeness of the Championship (no other division ever has the same small ratio of points between top and bottom 2:1 this year) means you can’t rely on other results going our way.  Since a re-energised Cove ( thanks to us, they’ve picked up 8 points over the season - a really dire gift to your nearest rival) could pick up 4-6 points in their last 2 games. So we need one or possibly two results.  We can do that.

As mentioned, earlier we would have been delighted to be in this position going into the final games. We need to grind it out ourselves to get over the line, without relying on others.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by farflung lichtie

[Tattie36]

I agree that we should be doing this ourselves without relying on other results. However, if we have to get something from Accies on the final day then I feel we’ll see a familiar pattern as we’ve seen over and over. 

We quite simply can’t play against teams who setup to defend, stifle us and hit on the break. Just look at where our points have come from this season. Hardly any points against teams in the bottom half of the league but promotion playoff form v the teams at the top end. Even our victory v Accies this season was a grim slog which could have gone either way and 2 points and 2 goals v a Cove team who’ve been battered by pretty much everyone else tells it all.

We saw the same last season where we struggled against teams who setup to defend - the games v Accies being a perfect example and… of course, the playoff v ICT.

For that reason, I’ll be crossing every digit for a comfortable Dundee win on Friday as I can definitely see Cove beating Morton on the last day.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Tattie36

[1320Lichtie]

9 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

I agree that we should be doing this ourselves without relying on other results. However, if we have to get something from Accies on the final day then I feel we’ll see a familiar pattern as we’ve seen over and over. 

We quite simply can’t play against teams who setup to defend, stifle us and hit on the break. Just look at where our points have come from this season. Hardly any points against teams in the bottom half of the league but promotion playoff form v the teams at the top end. Even our victory v Accies this season was a grim slog which could have gone either way and 2 points and 2 goals v a Cove team who’ve been battered by pretty much everyone else tells it all.

We saw the same last season where we struggled against teams who setup to defend - the games v Accies being a perfect example and… of course, the playoff v ICT.

For that reason, I’ll be crossing every digit for a comfortable Dundee win on Friday as I can definitely see Cove beating Morton on the last day.

I think Cove will get a maximum of 1 point over their next 2 games. If they never had us in the league they’d have been utterly doomed by now. 8 points off us. Dundee will have the game won in the first half Friday and Morton will beat them too. 
 

If Accies are in that position on the last day they’ll not be setting up to defend either they’ll need the points themselves to try and finish above Cove seeing as they can no longer finish above us

[Tattie36]

32 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I think Cove will get a maximum of 1 point over their next 2 games. If they never had us in the league they’d have been utterly doomed by now. 8 points off us. Dundee will have the game won in the first half Friday and Morton will beat them too. 
 

If Accies are in that position on the last day they’ll not be setting up to defend either they’ll need the points themselves to try and finish above Cove seeing as they can no longer finish above us

I hope you’re right. I do think Accies know how to play against us and would setup to defend and frustrate, and hit us on the break.

Also remember that Morton have nothing to play for so won’t exactly be busting a gut to win at Cove. Of course they’ll want to win but Cove at home on that big, fast pitch will have a decent chance.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Tattie36

[1320Lichtie]

Just for information - a Goals scored table below 

 

1. Dundee - 61

1. Partick Thistle - 61 

3. Queens Park - 59

4. Ayr - 58

5. Inverness - 51 

6. Morton - 49

7. Raith - 44 

8. Cove Rangers - 37

9. Hamilton - 31 

10. Arbroath - 29

 

A real lack of entertainment and goals this year. Really pretty incredible. Think Dick might need to change his attitude in regards to team selections next year. Even when we were flying Liam Henderson and James Craigen left midfield still managed to do my nut in. 
 

Only Peterhead have scored less from the 42 clubs in the 4 leagues. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by 1320Lichtie

[Tattie36]

15 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Just for information - a Goals scored table below 

 

1. Dundee - 61

1. Partick Thistle - 61 

3. Queens Park - 59

4. Ayr - 58

5. Inverness - 51 

6. Morton - 49

7. Raith - 44 

8. Cove Rangers - 37

9. Hamilton - 31 

10. Arbroath - 29

 

A real lack of entertainment and goals this year. Really pretty incredible. Think Dick might need to change his attitude in regards to team selections next year. Even when we were flying Liam Henderson and James Craigen left midfield still managed to do my nut in. 
 

Only Peterhead have scored less from the 42 clubs in the 4 leagues. 

 

 

Add in the amount of draws we’ve had and it’s really depressing football to watch. Excuse my ignorance on this but do we have a dedicated attack coach? If not, why not? It’s been glaringly obvious all season that our Achilles heal is putting the ball in the net.

Even if we’d scored 6 or 7 more goals all season then the likelihood is that some of those draws would have been wins and we would be comfortable by now.

[lichtie23]

How many times have we scored over 2 in a game? 4 against Dundee at New Year is the only one sticking out for me 

[SotesBornalichtie]

22 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Absolutely key I think. When we were first promoted as plucky wee Arbroath, I think teams just assumed they could come to the wee part timers and roll us over, and we thrived against that.  But by now, we are no longer seen as plucky wee Arbroath full of bus drivers and posties.  Teams come to Gayfield set up defensively and designed to counter our style.  Some teams still have the arrogance to assume we will roll over (hi Dundee!), but most don't.  Its partly why we are better away from home, and its why we can get points from the top teams, while hanging on for dear life against our fellow strugglers.

Can the management adapt?

 

I think the answer to that question is a resounding no. They only seem to know one way to set up a team and one tactic. OK, they are working with part time players, but if the management can't, or won't, adapt we can't expect the players to change things by themselves.

We are not in this position because of losing to Cove. We are in this position because of the f**k ups by the management last summer and the signing of duds from obscure leagues that few of us have heard of. 2 league wins before the turn of the year helped us to the bottom of the league. Things improved after the January transfer window but the damage had already been done. We are still relying on other teams doing us a favour by taking points from Cove and Hamilton to keep our Championship status next season.

 

[Tattie36]

4 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

How many times have we scored over 2 in a game? 4 against Dundee at New Year is the only one sticking out for me 

That’s it as far as I’m aware. Off the top of my head, the only times we’ve scored more than 1 in a game (in the league) is that 4-2 win at Dundee, the 4-2 loss at Dundee, twice v Ayr and twice v Morton. So 6 games out of 34. Add in that we’ve not ever scored once against Partick in 4 attempts, even when they were conceding loads of goals.

I for one am astonished that the fans are still turning out in such numbers home and away, although I fear that the game on Saturday may have been the final straw for quite a few of our more casual fans.

[Mon eh Ton]

3 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

Also remember that Morton have nothing to play for so won’t exactly be busting a gut to win at Cove.

Morton can still make the playoffs and even if they don't, can still have a top half finish. If results don't go our way, though, I wouldn't underestimate the satisfaction of relegating Hartley as a motivator to close the season with a win.

[Tattie36]

2 minutes ago, Mon eh Ton said:

Morton can still make the playoffs and even if they don't, can still have a top half finish. If results don't go our way, though, I wouldn't underestimate the satisfaction of relegating Hartley as a motivator to close the season with a win.

Yeah, sorry. Can’t imagine you have much love for us either considering recent results.

[1320Lichtie]

11 minutes ago, Mon eh Ton said:

Morton can still make the playoffs and even if they don't, can still have a top half finish. If results don't go our way, though, I wouldn't underestimate the satisfaction of relegating Hartley as a motivator to close the season with a win.

Add that to the fact that Morton are a much better team than Cove Rangers too. 
 

Obviously it’s down to ourselves but again being realistic we really should’ve limped over the line already after Saturdays result in Hamilton. Cove derailing Dundee in any way would be an absolute miracle. Even if they did somehow manage a point you’re looking at us getting a single point from Partick away and Hamilton at home to seal 8th. 
 

Can go back and forth all week long we’d be as well just waiting to see what happens on Friday night but I’ve got a feeling come 10pm all this discussion would be a waste of time and we can all relax 

[Smokerson]

It would take an astonishing result for Cove to finish above us. I think we are pretty much safe, our away form since Jan has been good (3 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss) so chances are we can pick something up at Thistle. 

The over reaction to wins and defeats on here are way over the top. We have had a poor season, players and management deserve credit for getting us out the shit when the going got tough. We need to sign two or three attacking players that are going to make us score goals and turn some of the draws into wins.  

At the moment I'd think Dundee, Hamilton and Cove will be replaced with Dunfermline and possibly Ross County and Falkirk so its going to be a very tough league where 8th will again be the objective.