All things Dundee FC

[johnnydun]

Nelms is running a business, that incorporates a football club. The main draw of Dundee Football Club to Keyes was the brand (stop sniggering), and use this brand to progress the real estate development. But without the brand, they have nothing to use as temptation with financiers. They have always said it doesn't matter what league they are in, but in truth, it does, for maximum exposure. So football operations is hugely important. Nelms doesn't have a strong enough association with Scottish football to fully understand or control a football club in Scotland. So Nelms turns to advice from WGS, the one in charge of football operations. A former Dundee player, Scotland Manager and big enough name in World football, his CV would be enough for Nelms to bite his hand off for the role. As a newcomer to Scottish football, who wouldn't take WGS on right?

This was the error though, as the rest of us know that Strachan's ideas are, let's say, outdated.

Going by Bowyer's statement, it speaks volumes him not thanking WGS, (he even thanked all of us ffs, and we boo'd at times). Imo he is a bit pissed off with Nelms for standing with Strachan, as Strachan clearly wants to source the players and have a First Team Coach, not a Manager.

TL;DR.

Nelms is naive, Strachan's the issue.

[Ludo*1]

Just now, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I meant to quote both you - my bad.

Both of you are guilty of the same thing - one trying to defend Bowyer, the other trying to defend Nelms.

I don't think it's as clear cut as either of you think - and both views are not based on hard evidence but a supposition of the situation.

As I said - I don't think we'll ever know - and I don't particularly think it matters now.

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

Just want to apologise to the rest of the Dee's on here reading my thoughts and ramblings. Might not always get it right and totally in the process of a self confessed head's gone at all of this. Just so frustrated with the club right now and if it ultimately turns out Bowyer has been stringing the club along and fucking us over then fair enough I'll hold my hands up but as far as I can see, the information available points to the exact opposite.

Want to give another apology to all the Dee's on here as I know I can come across a bit full on with this sort of stuff and people are probably fed up reading it but the forums are really the only avenue for me to vent as my missus wouldn't put up with it for a second! 

[eindhovendee]

32 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

That’s you trying to create a narrative that paints the guys, without whom there probably wouldn’t be a club, in the worst possible light. 
 

We are the guys without whom there probably wouldn't be a club. Us. We saved it. Twice.

Not the Americans

We might not be experiencing the dizzy heights of yo-yoing between the Premiership and the Championship without them but we would have club.

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

Just want to apologise to the rest of the Dee's on here reading my thoughts and ramblings. Might not always get it right and totally in the process of a self confessed head's gone at all of this. Just so frustrated with the club right now and if it ultimately turns out Bowyer has been stringing the club along and fucking us over then fair enough I'll hold my hands up but as far as I can see, the information available points to the exact opposite.

Want to give another apology to all the Dee's on here as I know I can come across a bit full on with this sort of stuff and people are probably fed up reading it but the forums are really the only avenue for me to vent as my missus wouldn't put up with it for a second! 

No need to apologise @Ludo*1. All about opinions mate, it's not like you're ever offensive. Just want to see our club do well like the rest of us.

[rhumbaclub]

2 hours ago, Crawford said:

I really don't understand what he did that raised him to Scottish football god status.

Yeah i mean he's only in double figures for major honours won as a player, was 4th in the Ballon d'Or, 6 major honours managing Celtic and took them to successive last 16's in the Champions League, capped 50 odd times for Scotland...................boys like that are 10 a penny in Scottish football!

[DeeTillEhDeh]

11 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

Just want to apologise to the rest of the Dee's on here reading my thoughts and ramblings. Might not always get it right and totally in the process of a self confessed head's gone at all of this. Just so frustrated with the club right now and if it ultimately turns out Bowyer has been stringing the club along and fucking us over then fair enough I'll hold my hands up but as far as I can see, the information available points to the exact opposite.

Want to give another apology to all the Dee's on here as I know I can come across a bit full on with this sort of stuff and people are probably fed up reading it but the forums are really the only avenue for me to vent as my missus wouldn't put up with it for a second! 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[Shadow Play]

5 minutes ago, rhumbaclub said:

Yeah i mean he's only in double figures for major honours won as a player, was 4th in the Ballon d'Or, 6 major honours managing Celtic and took them to successive last 16's in the Champions League, capped 50 odd times for Scotland...................boys like that are 10 a penny in Scottish football!

That’s all good and well but can he jump over advertisement boardings at the side of a pitch?

[johnnydun]

Slightly off topic, but I can't help but read Giovanni Di Stefano's Twitter, pissed off with the Scotsman newspaper now and his family are still Dundee fans, someone on Twitter should invite him to this P&B thread.

 

[Ludo*1]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

That’s all good and well but can he jump over advertisement boardings at the side of a pitch?

The way I'm jumping to conclusions, I'm taking that as a sign that we are about to appoint Temuri Ketsbaia (although he battered the advertisement hoardings rather than fail to clear them, technically).

[Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll]

Not the best source but worth a read https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/10649213/gary-bowyer-dundee-exit-inside-letter-sacked-nelms-strachan/

[This Charming Man]

We can't all be wrong on here regarding not wanting Callum Davidson as manager at Dens.

A very real concern is considering he was the manager for two thirds of St. Johnstone's major trophy haul, I see very little warmth or indeed positive opinions from the Saintee followers on here.

Another major issue is, having tolerated James Mistake's signings for the last 3 or more years, we've finally cleared the decks and are about to hand the keys of the building to someone with arguably a worse record of disastrous signings for a smaller club. No disrespect intended Saintee fellers.

Regards.     

[eindhovendee]

16 minutes ago, This Charming Man said:

We can't all be wrong on here regarding not wanting Callum Davidson as manager at Dens.

A very real concern is considering he was the manager for two thirds of St. Johnstone's major trophy haul, I see very little warmth or indeed positive opinions from the Saintee followers on here.

Another major issue is, having tolerated James Mistake's signings for the last 3 or more years, we've finally cleared the decks and are about to hand the keys of the building to someone with arguably a worse record of disastrous signings for a smaller club. No disrespect intended Saintee fellers.

Regards.     

Not really surprising that the Fermers wanted him punted.

The next season after the cup wins they only finished 6 points ahead of the McPake/McGhee Dundee and stayed up beating ICT in the play-offs.

This season, as they have told us at length, they were hovering just above the bottom 3.

Hard to believe we were getting ready for the big game just a week ago, a tough gig being a Dee but this is a new experience where we are now pissing on our own chips.

[Crawford]

55 minutes ago, rhumbaclub said:

Yeah i mean he's only in double figures for major honours won as a player, was 4th in the Ballon d'Or, 6 major honours managing Celtic and took them to successive last 16's in the Champions League, capped 50 odd times for Scotland...................boys like that are 10 a penny in Scottish football!

Won trophies as a player

Played for Scotland

Didn't win a Ballon d'Or

Led Celtic to win in the two horse race

Out of everything the last 16 thing is impressive and that's it. 

He left Celtic to have a 28% win record at Middlesbrough and then the banter years with National squad. You can choose whichever random excuse you like from this time period.

The man's dogs aren't all barking and he shouldn't be making any decisions for the club. 

 

[rhumbaclub]

23 minutes ago, Crawford said:

Won trophies as a player

Played for Scotland

Didn't win a Ballon d'Or

Led Celtic to win in the two horse race

Out of everything the last 16 thing is impressive and that's it. 

He left Celtic to have a 28% win record at Middlesbrough and then the banter years with National squad. You can choose whichever random excuse you like from this time period.

The man's dogs aren't all barking and he shouldn't be making any decisions for the club. 

 

Strachan doesn't make the decisions, Nelm's does surely?

[Terry_Tibbs]

2 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Slightly off topic, but I can't help but read Giovanni Di Stefano's Twitter, pissed off with the Scotsman newspaper now and his family are still Dundee fans, someone on Twitter should invite him to this P&B thread.

 

 

[Ludo*1]

18 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

 

Oft. Sent me down a rabbit hole.

Made me nostalgic this one did:

 

[Dee Bliss]

12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

I think if he has applied, which the Blackpool Gazette has poured water on, then it goes against his statement of wanting to lead us next season. 

And I think you're now leaping to conclusions by saying if it wasn't for John Nelms or Gordon Strachan, we wouldn't have a club. That's the definition of trying to create your own narrative. We had fans really struggling to manage the club and a lot of infighting but I refuse to believe that without Nelms we'd have ceased to exist. I don't really see the relevance of that to the discussion either tbh.

We were fcked at the time Ludo. The supporters trust ran up huge debts to a level they couldn’t afford and without Keyes/Nelms our goose was pretty much cooked. 

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

We were fcked at the time Ludo. The supporters trust ran up huge debts to a level they couldn’t afford and without Keyes/Nelms our goose was pretty much cooked. 

Yeah, don't disagree. 

We were in a bind but I refuse to believe we wouldn't still be about without them. 

I still have an enormous amount of goodwill for Keyes just frustrated at Nelms mismanagement of his money when we could be so much better off.

[Dee Bliss]

12 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Nelms is running a business, that incorporates a football club. The main draw of Dundee Football Club to Keyes was the brand (stop sniggering), and use this brand to progress the real estate development. But without the brand, they have nothing to use as temptation with financiers. They have always said it doesn't matter what league they are in, but in truth, it does, for maximum exposure. So football operations is hugely important. Nelms doesn't have a strong enough association with Scottish football to fully understand or control a football club in Scotland. So Nelms turns to advice from WGS, the one in charge of football operations. A former Dundee player, Scotland Manager and big enough name in World football, his CV would be enough for Nelms to bite his hand off for the role. As a newcomer to Scottish football, who wouldn't take WGS on right?

This was the error though, as the rest of us know that Strachan's ideas are, let's say, outdated.

Going by Bowyer's statement, it speaks volumes him not thanking WGS, (he even thanked all of us ffs, and we boo'd at times). Imo he is a bit pissed off with Nelms for standing with Strachan, as Strachan clearly wants to source the players and have a First Team Coach, not a Manager.

TL;DR.

Nelms is naive, Strachan's the issue.

How are you coming to those conclusions about Strachan Johnny? 
 

How’s he outdated and what’s the issue with him? People I know at the club think he’s quite the opposite.

As far as I’m led to believe Strachan was Bowyers source of contact as he wouldn’t deal with Nelms. 
 

Bowyer’s statement played to the crowd. He said all the quotes you want to hear. Great club, loved the fans, fans backing was incredible, didn’t want to leave, board are bad.

If he wanted us to push the boat out too far on finances then that’s no good to me. Been there, done that.

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Yenitit

[Ludo*1]

Opened up Twitter and came across this, this morning:

Demoralising doesn't cover it!