One for the seething Britnats

[pandarilla]

You really are more simple than a primary 1 maths test.

Here's HTH though - so that's good.

[Clarkston5]

So you are dividing immigrants into productive and non productive categories now ? Here was me thinking we were talking about immigrants and not lazy immigrants.

You can also divide the indigineous population into productive and non productive categories to.

Look, you're either an alias or a new poster who's a complete fucknugget. Either way, YOU ARE THE MORON

Over and out.

That's the problem isn't it? There are people who've come here and worked hard and then there are others who haven't and they shouldn't be here. As you say there are people in this society who are a drain on its resources but they should be put ahead of those in the same category who have come here from elsewhere.

Nice to see that you're taking this well at making a mess of this argument by not reading my original post or the supportive comments made by an immigrant who appears to share my views. You're really thick btw

[AUFC90]

That's the problem isn't it? There are people who've come here and worked hard and then there are others who haven't and they shouldn't be here. As you say there are people in this society who are a drain on its resources but they should be put ahead of those in the same category who have come here from elsewhere.

Nice to see that you're taking this well at making a mess of this argument by not reading my original post or the supportive comments made by an immigrant who appears to share my views. You're really thick btw

I read your post. Disagreed that open border immigration was a strain on the economy and then provided a link showing that immigration is a NET contributer to the economy. You then posted something from the comments page, went off in a tangent and started with the abuse.

Canny be arsed with wee cunty aliases anymore. You are, from this point forward, on the ignore list. Thank f**k.

[Clarkston5]

I read your post. Disagreed that open border immigration was a strain on the economy and then provided a link showing that immigration is a NET contributer to the economy. You then posted something from the comments page, went off in a tangent and started with the abuse.

Canny be arsed with wee cunty aliases anymore. You are, from this point forward, on the ignore list. Thank f**k.

Of course it is. Your link focuses on skilled and knowledgeable migrants who contribute to the economy. It doesn't include the figures for benefits and the associated costs for NHS and property. As for the abuse, you started that off but it was ironic because you are not too sharp.

The liberal contention that "we are all equal" doesn't stack up when the report focuses on the skills and knowledge shortage immigration attempts to fill and I support controlled immigration as I said

[Enigma]

On the other hand, people who espouse an independent Scotland are nationalists - they are arguing for a Scottish nation, which is quite nationalistic behaviour however you cut it.

There's really no way of disputing this, and I don't really see why anyone would bother giving it a bash.

What about somebody who voted for independence purely and solely because they believed themselves and their descendants would be better off in the long run if Scotland voted yes? Is that person a nationalist?

When people criticize immigration, they get branded as nationalists rather than people with common sense!

Open Borders European immigration is something that was imposed on EU members and while it has its advantages, the strain on a country's economic resources and the long term effects on the country mean that it needs to be controlled.

I admire people who have come over here and they should be respected and treated fairly but there need to be controls put in place for the good of the migrants and the domiciled residents.

Of course you are a nationalist if you want to end EU immigration. We are in Europe. The old adage of more in common with a Flanders blacksmith or a Slovakian car factory worker? If you lived in say, London, surly you could make the same argument about preventing immigration from the rest of the UK?

[Clarkston5]

What about somebody who voted for independence purely and solely because they believed themselves and their descendants would be better off in the long run if Scotland voted yes? Is that person a nationalist?

Of course you are a nationalist if you want to end EU immigration. We are in Europe. The old adage of more in common with a Flanders blacksmith or a Slovakian car factory worker? If you lived in say, London, surly you could make the same argument about preventing immigration from the rest of the UK?

Oh right. So you don't think there should be any controls on movement within Europe at all? just to get this correct before I laugh at your argument

[Tryfield]

That is magnificent.

[milhouse]

When did I say that immigration was to blame for society's ills? I said that "Open Borders immigration" was a strain on resources which is correct and that's supported by the views of an immigrant in the link that that moron provided me. Yes I am a Celtic fan but again it's not relevant.... like you really

A strain on what resources?

[ForzaDundee]

Let me say this again. Open Borders immigration without stringent controls is a strain on the economy because there are only finite resources.

HTH

You are an idiot.

[Clarkston5]

A strain on what resources?

Thick much? Health, property etc etc etc. People who don't work, commit crime from other countries in addition to the ones who are domiciled here = Strain on resources

[Clarkston5]

You are an idiot.

So open borders is a terrific idea.

Do you think we should enable the population of Albania and Romania to make that move here?

[ForzaDundee]

So open borders is a terrific idea.

Do you think we should enable the population of Albania and Romania to make that move here?

Anyone that thinks that borders or immigration are even issues worth thinking about is a complete and utter simpleton. The real strain on resources on this planet is greed and capitalism which relies upon unsustainable practices for its assumed infinite growth.

The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed.

[Enigma]

Oh right. So you don't think there should be any controls on movement within Europe at all? just to get this correct before I laugh at your argument

No.

Why do you believe there should be no controls over the movement of people within the UK but there should be in Europe? Why should the UK be able the close the doors the Romanians but London can't stop economic migrants from the north of England?

[Clarkston5]

No.

Why do you believe there should be no controls over the movement of people within the UK but there should be in Europe? Why should the UK be able the close the doors the Romanians but London can't stop economic migrants from the north of England?

What the f**k are you talking about?

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Anyone that thinks that borders or immigration are even issues worth thinking about is a complete and utter simpleton. The real strain on resources on this planet is greed and capitalism which relies upon unsustainable practices for its assumed infinite growth.

The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed.

We throw away more food/ consumables in first world countries than what would be needed to sustain many in the third world. the eu at one point (dont know if they still do ) paid farmers to leave fields empty and produce less due to massive surplusses of grain wheat and dairy. This is not tin foil hat shit, it was part of standard grade geography. sort out this calamity and you might find the millions heading towards western europe might just stay at home

[AberdeenBud]

Some wonderful four legs good, two legs bad nonsense from Flying Rodent on this thread.

[Tom McB]

Are you ? I'll say it again just so it sinks in. Immigrants are a net contributor to the UK economy. That's with open borders.

Really, we don't have open borders.

Please provide rigorous academic proof that should we move to open borders there would be a net economic benefit.

One can have a welfare state or one can have open borders. Not both.

[AUFC90]

Really, we don't have open borders.

Please provide rigorous academic proof that should we move to open borders there would be a net economic benefit.

One can have a welfare state or one can have open borders. Not both.

We have open borders for Europeans and EU immigrants are the biggest contributors to our economy out of all the immigrants that make it here.

Immigrants are a NET contributor to the economy. WE NEED THEM.

[flyingrodent]

Some wonderful four legs good, two legs bad nonsense from Flying Rodent on this thread.

This has been a bit of an eye-opening thread for me, TBH. I've seen Irvine Welsh on Twitter doing the whole I am fervently in favour of an independent Scotland and I voluntarily and angrily repeat Scottish Nationalist talking points, but how dare you call me a nationalist thing and had assumed that it was just one of his many weird hang-ups.

Now, I see that this kind of malarkey is a bit more widespread. I don't know whether this is because the word nationalism has (justifiably) negative connotations from other countries, but the sheer denial is really a hilarious thing to see.

Much as I don't like nationalism, I don't think it's some kind of unacceptable horror of a political stance. I think nationalism is daft - it's mostly politics that appeals to people for whom being born in a particular country is a huge personal achievement, and it's almost always a straight line from incipient nationalism to sheer cvntery, but it's certainly possible to be one without being a 1940s-style ethnic nationalist.

Credit to Alex Salmond, I suppose. You never see him banging around on TV telling people that he's shit-hot for independence, but that he isn't a nationalist.

[AberdeenBud]

No, no, I get that, even if I'd dispute some of it.

It's your insitence that every Yes voter is a nationalist regardless whilst completely eschewing such warped logic towards No voters and the undoubtedly nationalistic British state that has me truly baffled?