UKIP

[git-intae-thum]

Everyone forgetting that there is precedent for the UK govt to ignore the results of a referendum majority.

On that occassion the excuse was the issue was too big and the majority not decisive enough.

[Broomhill Ultra]

Everyone forgetting that there is precedent for the UK govt to ignore the results of a referendum majority.

On that occassion the excuse was the issue was too big and the majority not decisive enough.

Aye but the rules were set out before the vote at least.

[strichener]

Everyone forgetting that there is precedent for the UK govt to ignore the results of a referendum majority.

On that occassion the excuse was the issue was too big and the majority not decisive enough.

You will have to enlighten me. When was this referendum that was ignored rather than meeting the conditions of the referendum?

[Bishop Briggs]

I know, they covered that in Politicks at Glasgow yooni , however this is not just a new PM though - it's a new cabinet presumably and they'll be pushing through policy that by definition wasn't in the manifesto last year. In this context 'mandate' also means giving Corbyn's Labour a complete shafting leaving them in further disarray. Better?

 

Not necessarily. The manifesto will apply to Cameron's successor. The referendum was in the manifesto. Michael Fallon made it clear that the manifesto and Queen's speech will determine the legislative programme. Corbyn's opponents in his own party are shafting him. They don't need the Tories as today's resignations have proved.

[LongTimeLurker]

Everyone forgetting that there is precedent for the UK govt to ignore the results of a referendum majority.

On that occassion the excuse was the issue was too big and the majority not decisive enough.

 

The 40% rule was inserted into the devolution legislation before the referendum based on an amendment from a backbencher called George Cunningham, so there is no parrallel with the current sitaution. Was once told that if Gordon Wilson of the SNP had kept speaking for 90 more seconds during the debate it would not have been added, but no idea if it's true or not.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There is no way a GE victory gives you the mandate to reverse a single issue referendum vote.

It does if you put it in your manifesto and get elected.

But I don't believe that would be strategically the best thing to do - it would play right in to UKIP's hands.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I totally agree. A single issue referendum trumps any other form of public decision making. Talk of a GE or a second referendum because people don't like the result is a nonsense.

The only way you could have a second referendum is if there were an entirely new EU deal on the table - and with the Mexican stand-off that's going on just now I don't believe that is likely to happen.

[LongTimeLurker]

Not necessarily. The manifesto will apply to Cameron's successor. The referendum was in the manifesto.

 

That's what people don't seem to grasp. Brexit was inherently part of the Tory manifesto if the people (have spoken, the b*****ds! - Dick Tuck) voted to leave, so they are committed to invoking Article 50 at this point. The Tories would be annihilated by UKIP in England & Wales if they attempted a U-turn on that, because most of their voters backed Leave and turkeys with otherwise safe Tory seats don't vote for an early Christmas in career terms.

[Granny Danger]

I know, they covered that in Politicks at Glasgow yooni , however this is not just a new PM though - it's a new cabinet presumably and they'll be pushing through policy that by definition wasn't in the manifesto last year. In this context 'mandate' also means giving Corbyn's Labour a complete shafting leaving them in further disarray. Better?

Who am I to argue with a student of politics?

Still. I don't think it negates my point and the Tory policy was to hold a referendum on Europe with all rational people realising that policy would follow on from the result of that referendum.

Whatever my views on the outcome, or on the xenophobia that played a large part in it, I think it would be wholly wrong to try to circumvent the result in any way. It would create a very dangerous precedent and the practical effects in driving more people towards UKIP would create even further conflict.

It would be dishonest of me not to add that from a Scottish Indepence perspective I think it's a very good result, though even without that I would still argue that the result must be respected.

[Broomhill Ultra]

Who am I to argue with a student of politics?

Still. I don't think it negates my point and the Tory policy was to hold a referendum on Europe with all rational people realising that policy would follow on from the result of that referendum.

Whatever my views on the outcome, or on the xenophobia that played a large part in it, I think it would be wholly wrong to try to circumvent the result in any way. It would create a very dangerous precedent and the practical effects in driving more people towards UKIP would create even further conflict.

It would be dishonest of me not to add that from a Scottish Indepence perspective I think it's a very good result, though even without that I would still argue that the result must be respected.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's right, wrong or should/could have been predicted but I don't get the impression it's about challenging the result of the referendum. Ironically most of the winners don't really seem to know what the result is either so can see the merit in an early GE. Would lead to 65% SNP result.

[welshbairn]

That's what people don't seem to grasp. Brexit was inherently part of the Tory manifesto if the people (have spoken, the b*****ds! - Dick Tuck) voted to leave, so they are committed to invoking Article 50 at this point. The Tories would be annihilated by UKIP in England & Wales if they attempted a U-turn on that, because most of their voters backed Leave and turkeys with otherwise safe Tory seats don't vote for an early Christmas in career terms.

 

The Tory party is as ripped apart as much as the Labour and Lib Dem parties are broken. The present Parliament is overwhelmingly against Brexit, so there will have to be a General Election. A united rational centrist party will have to be formed to contest it. 

[Fullerene]

I thought UKIP was going to disappear once they won the referendum and their job was done.
Wasn't that what they said?

 

I wonder how many people voted Leave if it meant they never Nigel Farage on the TV again!
(Probably none - but it worth a thought)

[LongTimeLurker]

The Tory party is as ripped apart as much as the Labour and Lib Dem parties are broken. The present Parliament is overwhelmingly against Brexit, so there will have to be a General Election. A united rational centrist party will have to be formed to contest it. 

 

If the Tories remain intact there is no need. Not a single Remainer amongst the Tories has said anything about doing a U-turn as far as I am aware. The Guardian is pushing this scenario, but it doesn't exactly have its finger on the pulse when it comes to what the Tories will do.

[mjw]

RT: UKIP wanted Brexit and is set to get exactly that. But that decision's now put Westminster on a collision course with Scotland, where people rejected splitting from the EU and now there's talk of independence. That's fair isn't it, with Scotland wanting quite the opposite to England and Wales?

DC: Absolute nonsense. We had a referendum, which everyone used to call ‘referendum’ to decide, whether we remain in the UK or not. We decided overwhelmingly to remain in the UK – that was a very recent plebiscite. And now we voted 60/40 to stay in the EU. But that is 40 percent of the Scottish people voted to leave the EU. Despite all the propaganda of the Scottish government and all the propaganda from Westminster – they still voted 40 percent against. That is only 10 percent of half of Scottish public…

David Coburn being interviewed on Russia Today.

When do the MEPs get their P45s?

[Cream Cheese]

DC: Absolute nonsense. We had a referendum, which everyone used to call ‘referendum’ to decide, whether we remain in the UK or not. We decided overwhelmingly to remain in the UK – that was a very recent plebiscite. And now we voted 60/40 to stay in the EU. But that is 40 percent of the Scottish people voted to leave the EU. Despite all the propaganda of the Scottish government and all the propaganda from Westminster – they still voted 40 percent against. That is only 10 percent of half of Scottish public…

 

It was 62/38 actually. A little less convincing than 55/45. Yet you seem to think the exact opposite is true? 

[mjw]

It was 62/38 actually. A little less convincing than 55/45. Yet you seem to think the exact opposite is true?

The imbecile Coburn thinks that.

[Cream Cheese]

The imbecile Coburn thinks that.

 

Sorry bud. My bad. There are a number of roasters on here that agree with him however. Deeply worrying.

[Wee Willie]

Keen observers of the last general election in Scotland will realise why a three way split amongst the traditional mainstream parties against a single upstart opponent fueled by a recent referendum is a recipe for almost complete wipeout and will notice that UKIP's starting position in a Westminster context is not that far off where the SNP were in the 2010 Westminster election with Euro elections being their version of Holyrood polls where significantly greater success had been achieved. A lot of politically aware people across the UK are now at the bargaining stage of the five stages of separation basically. Once they realise it is futile and the result is going to have to be implimented whether they like it or not, we will be into depression and then acceptance.

That's what people don't seem to grasp. Brexit was inherently part of the Tory manifesto if the people (have spoken, the b*****ds! - Dick Tuck) voted to leave, so they are committed to invoking Article 50 at this point. The Tories would be annihilated by UKIP in England & Wales if they attempted a U-turn on that, because most of their voters backed Leave and turkeys with otherwise safe Tory seats don't vote for an early Christmas in career terms.

If the Tories remain intact there is no need. Not a single Remainer amongst the Tories has said anything about doing a U-turn as far as I am aware. The Guardian is pushing this scenario, but it doesn't exactly have its finger on the pulse when it comes to what the Tories will do.

You're making some excellent points.

Carry on

[Jacksgranda]

You're making some excellent points.

Carry on

 

LTL always writes a lot of sense, in my experience.

[Wee Willie]

LTL always writes a lot of sense, in my experience.

 

I concur, but I'll qualify that by saying almost always writes a lot of sense.

(I'm covering my back in case there's a post I dinnae agree wi’)