When will indyref2 happen?

[SANTAN]

25 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

The daft wee *** rinsed yet again

Lovely people so you guys are. 

[Blootoon87]

I'm saying why would I bother when you've all surely seen it here before, I'd be amazed if anyone says they haven't.

I haven't.

[DiegoDiego]

Lovely people so you guys are. 

Yet you continue to converse with them.

[Gordon EF]

32 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

I'm saying why would I bother when you've all surely seen it here before, I'd be amazed if anyone says they haven't.

Because you'd instantly prove that you're correct as opposed to having to cover for a hysterical  over reaction.

[SandyCromarty]

4 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

If you say this to a normal person who might be beginning to wonder about how well served they are by Westminster, congratulations they just switched off.

There's one discrimination against Scotland which for me stands out as one of the worst perpetrated against us, I mentioned it earlier on another post and you may recall that it concerned the Secretary of State for Scotland Gordon Campbell in the early seventies, it was the early days of North Sea oil and the oil price was through the roof due to the Arab embargo, Scotlands economy was in freefall and the Prime Minister Heath urged Campbell to divert oil money to help the Scottish economy, Campbell flatly refused and all oil money then and for the future went to Westminster.

Of course the story was suppressed under the 30 year rule and Campbell went onto a peerage, Baron Croy and a large house outside Inverness which recently sold for 2.1 million., a traitor in our midst.

Just consider the precedent that would have set if he had yes to a percentage of the oil revenue being set aside at the time and for the future for Scotland's people and industry on a yearly basis and completely separate from the Barnet shite.

But no the revenue was frittered fighting against the miners and home counties grandiose projects.

All we get is fuckin crumbs from the rich man's table. 

[SANTAN]

8 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Because you'd instantly prove that you're correct as opposed to having to cover for a hysterical  over reaction.

Not at all, plenty of times I've posted things that are correct and still been derided or ganged up on, I don't exactly trust the sincerity for me to bother looking when I've seen it so frequently before. 

Tbh I was replying to an overreaction about anti Scottish posting in the first place I don't even care that this place has a lot of anti English type of posts, I expect it. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

 

Tbh I was replying to an overreaction about anti Scottish posting in the first place I don't even care that this place has a lot of anti English type of posts, I expect it. 

It's a shame for your argument that they seem to be so hard to find.

[Gordon EF]

52 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Not at all, plenty of times I've posted things that are correct and still been derided or ganged up on,

I assume this has also happened so many times that there's no need to back it up?

[John Lambies Doos]

Not at all, plenty of times I've posted things that are correct and still been derided or ganged up on, I don't exactly trust the sincerity for me to bother looking when I've seen it so frequently before. 
Tbh I was replying to an overreaction about anti Scottish posting in the first place I don't even care that this place has a lot of anti English type of posts, I expect it. 

Examples please

[DAFC.]

On 01/11/2020 at 01:15, The_Kincardine said:

Not nearly as thick as the mutton-headed tartan gonks who pollute these threads.  This is no surprise:

 

What was your choice of spirit when you replied to me at that time?

Toilet Duck most likely, given how delusional you are. 

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

I'm sure you're right it's just nobody cares. Cheating and deception create very powerful emotions that can effect political change, but it needs to be relevant to people's day to day lives in a very direct way, because the emotions arose and served a very useful function when we were nomadic hunter gatherers 20,000 years ago. So Gordon Campbell doing what he did is bad but the moment you have to then move on to explain why this caused cumulative underinvestment blah blah you already lost half your audience. The focus needs to be on Dominic Cummings level shitebaggery.

If you care to read my opening statement again you will see that I highlight it as one discrimination which obviously had a severe financial affect at that tumultuous time, and truth be told it is more than possible that the loss of that revenue is still felt today.

Dominic Cummings?? It's the likes of the Ruth Davidsons and the Douglas Ross's of the tories where the shite lies.

And you can throw in the Gordon Browns and Blair's anti Independence rhetoric.

Cummings main objective is to feck over the westminster establishment.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You've not noticed any on this section of the forum? 

One ethnic nationalist was binned a few days ago for posting an antisemitic trope - he is not representative of most pro-independence supporters here.

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

I'm sure you're right it's just nobody cares. Cheating and deception create very powerful emotions that can effect political change, but it needs to be relevant to people's day to day lives in a very direct way, because the emotions arose and served a very useful function when we were nomadic hunter gatherers 20,000 years ago. So Gordon Campbell doing what he did is bad but the moment you have to then move on to explain why this caused cumulative underinvestment blah blah you already lost half your audience. The focus needs to be on Dominic Cummings level shitebaggery.

Why I think the absolute furthest back you can go is the Thatcher years and even then keep it to a minimum.

[John Lambies Doos]

One ethnic nationalist was binned a few days ago for posting an antisemitic trope - he is not representative of most pro-independence supporters here.

Who was that?

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

One ethnic nationalist was binned a few days ago for posting an antisemitic trope - he is not representative of most pro-independence supporters here.

Who was that?

BawWatchin 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

41 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Pushes the same buttons. Not treating folk fairly is what I'm getting at. It's a very primal motivator, brings up very strong emotions. No c**t is going to bother reading enough Wikipedia to understand what happened, and in any case can we go back and re-do all the budgets and compound the interest to give Scotland its due? No.

You need to batter the message with Cummings and say look he cheated, knew fine he cheated, had the brass balls to say he didn't on telly, broke all kinds of protocol to do so, the whole thing is a big long 'f**k you' to the public and there's nothing you can do to get rid of people like him in the UK. If instead you start talking about some guy from half a lifetime ago folk will just fall asleep.

Exactly, as tempting/interesting as it is to play "if only we'd been able to..." alternate history, people for the most part don't give a shit. Pointing out the impossibility of improving the state of the UK in the foreseeable future and the things which are feasible with independence is the way to go

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

3 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Aye. And I think when Ravenscraig elected a tory councillor that sort of closed that off for me.

The same base which let their club die, they have no clue. 

[git-intae-thum]

11 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

I'm sure you're right it's just nobody cares. Cheating and deception create very powerful emotions that can effect political change, but it needs to be relevant to people's day to day lives in a very direct way, because the emotions arose and served a very useful function when we were nomadic hunter gatherers 20,000 years ago. So Gordon Campbell doing what he did is bad but the moment you have to then move on to explain why this caused cumulative underinvestment blah blah you already lost half your audience. The focus needs to be on Dominic Cummings level shitebaggery.

Nah.....highlighting these actions by Britnat politicians in the not too distant past is completely relevant. It's an absolute certainty their successors are still up to the same stuff behind the scenes today. 

I was not aware of Gordon Campbell's actions until SC's post.

The more that comes out about these folk and is repeated the better.

 

[GordonS]

16 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

What;s new?

It has been ever thus since the 1st of May 1707.

Devolution. That's new.

I think the point here is that Scotland is supposed to have control over it's day-to-day affairs. That's what 75% voted for in 1997 and what a lot more than that support now. The Scottish Parliament has huge law-making powers and the Scottish Government is a strong administration, but without the money powers it's always significantly restricted compared to the government in England.

Take, say, forestry as an example. In the 1970s the UK government wanted to encourage more commercial forestry, so they offered tax breaks. They can repeat that, but we can't do that. We have to find money from our existing budgets to incentivise it instead. We can't do much on taxes, most of what we can do affects workers rather than businesses and we can neither borrow (other than for capital projects, within limits) nor pay down debt.

And the reason why it's such a problem is that 20% of people in the UK live under devolution while 80% live directly under the UK government - meaning they are run by someone that can make big changes to taxes and borrowing, and we don't. A lot of people will take the rough with the smooth and accept that reality, of course.

[SandyCromarty]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

Devolution. That's new.

I think the point here is that Scotland is supposed to have control over it's day-to-day affairs. That's what 75% voted for in 1997 and what a lot more than that support now. The Scottish Parliament has huge law-making powers and the Scottish Government is a strong administration, but without the money powers it's always significantly restricted compared to the government in England.

Take, say, forestry as an example. In the 1970s the UK government wanted to encourage more commercial forestry, so they offered tax breaks. They can repeat that, but we can't do that. We have to find money from our existing budgets to incentivise it instead. We can't do much on taxes, most of what we can do affects workers rather than businesses and we can neither borrow (other than for capital projects, within limits) nor pay down debt.

And the reason why it's such a problem is that 20% of people in the UK live under devolution while 80% live directly under the UK government - meaning they are run by someone that can make big changes to taxes and borrowing, and we don't. A lot of people will take the rough with the smooth and accept that reality, of course.

Exactly, the past does affect the future as I was saying, the fact that Scotland by itself cannot readily access funds easily is an injustice.

 However Mixu would prefer you talk about Dominic Cummings, what he has to do with Scotlands future is beyond me as his mission is to wreck the westminster establishment.