When will indyref2 happen?

[SandyCromarty]

8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Nah.....highlighting these actions by Britnat politicians in the not too distant past is completely relevant. It's an absolute certainty their successors are still up to the same stuff behind the scenes today. 

I was not aware of Gordon Campbell's actions until SC's post.

The more that comes out about these folk and is repeated the better.

 

Correct.

But what's your take on Dominic Cummings?

[oneteaminglasgow]

2 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Exactly, the past does affect the future as I was saying, the fact that Scotland by itself cannot readily access funds easily is an injustice.

 However Mixu would prefer you talk about Dominic Cummings, what he has to do with Scotlands future is beyond me as his mission is to wreck the westminster establishment.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just missing his fairly obvious point?

While the stuff you’re talking about is real and obviously matters, if you want to convince a no or undecided to vote yes, then you’re much better off chatting about the here and now. Talking about Dominic Cummings, Brexit, Johnson’s shameless populism and the obvious disdain which they have for Scotland will have far more effect than saying “50 years ago, this happened and that has caused a plethora of problems.” Because people can see the effects clearly as they happen, and because people can do something about them.

[git-intae-thum]

1 minute ago, SandyCromarty said:

Correct.

But what's your take on Dominic Cummings?

Johnson's Sejanus

[git-intae-thum]

4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

While the stuff you’re talking about is real and obviously matters.

Should have stopped at that bit tbh.

The rest of your post, like Mixus, is just pure speculation about effects on the undecided. Speculation based on what?

Like I mentioned....I did not know the story of Campbell's treachery until I looked into it after SC's post, so putting that info out is very much of relevance.

[oneteaminglasgow]

7 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Should have stopped at that bit tbh.

The rest of your post, like Mixus, is just pure speculation about effects on the undecided. Speculation based on what?

Like I mentioned....I did not know the story of Campbell's treachery until I looked into it after SC's post, so putting that info out is very much of relevance.

Because I’m someone who has gone from a very soft no last time, to a hard yes this time, and because I know full well that telling me about something that happened 20 years before I was born and which I could do nothing to stop the effects of would have less impact than saying “this terrible thing is happening now, and you can stop it by voting yes”. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Telling my undecided neighbour he has to vote for independence due to the terrible injustice meted out Rob Roy in 1732

[SandyCromarty]

8 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just missing his fairly obvious point?

While the stuff you’re talking about is real and obviously matters, if you want to convince a no or undecided to vote yes, then you’re much better off chatting about the here and now. Talking about Dominic Cummings, Brexit, Johnson’s shameless populism and the obvious disdain which they have for Scotland will have far more effect than saying “50 years ago, this happened and that has caused a plethora of problems.” Because people can see the effects clearly as they happen, and because people can do something about them.

There are many clued up posters on here who are totally au fait with British politics and the role of Dominic Cummings who apparently has the ear of one man, the average Scottish voter is only aware of the Dominice Cummings who recently flouted the lockdown rules and that he works in westminster.

Since the UK was accepted into the EU in 1973 there was even a large tory MP faction dead against it then which grew over the years and that was before Dominic Cummings was born, so to even think he was the main architect of Brexit is ludicrous.

The tory anti Independence establishment is Scotlands problem and if I want to highlight it's acts against us,whether past or present. it is all relevant.

Gordon Campbell who I mentioned earlier was defeated by Winnie Ewing in the Feb 1974 election for the Moray and Nairn seat.

In that same election the SNP doubled it's share of the Scottish vote and increased their MP's at Westminster from 1 to 7.

It was a start and it is relevant to where we are now.

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

5 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

There are many clued up posters on here who are totally au fait with British politics and the role of Dominic Cummings who apparently has the ear of one man, the average Scottish voter is only aware of the Dominice Cummings who recently flouted the lockdown rules and that he works in westminster.

Since the UK was accepted into the EU in 1973 there was even a large tory MP faction dead against it then which grew over the years and that was before Dominic Cummings was born, so to even think he was the main architect of Brexit is ludicrous.

The tory anti Independence establishment is Scotlands problem and if I want to highlight it's acts against us,whether past or present. it is all relevant.

Gordon Campbell who I mentioned earlier was defeated by Winnie Ewing in the Feb 1974 election for the Moray and Nairn seat.

In that same election the SNP doubled it's share of the Scottish vote and increased their MP's at Westminster from 1 to 7.

It was a start and it is relevant to where we are now.

 

I’m going to hazard a guess that if the average member of the public doesn’t know or care about Dominic Cummings beyond the lockdown stuff, then they also won’t care about some guy who’s been dead 15 years - even if he did f**k them over with his actions in the 70s.

If anyone asks you “why is the country like what it’s like” then it’s an interesting case study. If they say “why should I vote yes” then it’s maybe not the most effective way to convince them.

[SANTAN]

14 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Pushes the same buttons. Not treating folk fairly is what I'm getting at. It's a very primal motivator, brings up very strong emotions. No c**t is going to bother reading enough Wikipedia to understand what happened, and in any case can we go back and re-do all the budgets and compound the interest to give Scotland its due? No.

You need to batter the message with Cummings and say look he cheated, knew fine he cheated, had the brass balls to say he didn't on telly, broke all kinds of protocol to do so, the whole thing is a big long 'f**k you' to the public and there's nothing you can do to get rid of people like him in the UK. If instead you start talking about some guy from half a lifetime ago folk will just fall asleep.

I don't think that's how it works, well it is but I think with any public figure you run the risk of making it about their identity rather than the issue at hand, I think if you reference things Dominic Cummings has done then that may be off putting to some but the more that people call him out by name the more it also falls on death ears, in these polarised times I see a lot of people that will blindly stick up for Dominic Cummings because he is their man and when there's been worse breaches of lockdown and every day people see people they know having made minor breaches etc then hearing the name Dominic Cummings just comes across as grating and hypocritical. I could be wrong but I think bringing up Cummings usually just cements peoples opinions, I think it's a reductive way to make a wider point. 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Stormzy said:

I see a lot of people that will blindly stick up for Dominic Cummings because he is their man

The only people I've noticed doing that are these futurology cultists he's keen on. My life is a bit sheltered at the moment though.

[SANTAN]

38 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The only people I've noticed doing that are these futurology cultists he's keen on. My life is a bit sheltered at the moment though.

The documentary on him after Brexit and then his role in the Boris vs Parliament debacle definitely put him up as a figurehead for crazy Brexiteers. 

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Exactly, the past does affect the future as I was saying, the fact that Scotland by itself cannot readily access funds easily is an injustice.

 However Mixu would prefer you talk about Dominic Cummings, what he has to do with Scotlands future is beyond me as his mission is to wreck the westminster establishment.

It's irrelevant that my example includes an old policy btw, it's just an easy and fairly well known way to understand the kind of policy the Scottish Government still can't have. If I could have thought of a more recent example I would have used that instead.

[Gordon EF]

7 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Since the UK was accepted into the EU in 1973 there was even a large tory MP faction dead against it then which grew over the years and that was before Dominic Cummings was born

Cummings was born in 1971 but it's still kind of blown my mind that he's only 48. He's younger than Will Smith.

Spoiler

 

[DiegoDiego]

I'm not sure banging on about Cummings is a good tactic either, there's nothing to say that an independent Scotland wouldn't be full of deplorable people of influence and there's nothing to say that in a year's time Cummings won't be out on his arse anyway. Independence isn't for the short term and I think any persuasive argument needs to reflect that.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Cummings was born in 1971 but it's still kind of blown my mind that he's only 48. He's younger than Will Smith.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I watched Seven Pounds last night.  Maybe Cummings could be pursued to donate his organs to deserving recipients.  I’ll happily supply the box jellyfish.

Not his eyes of course.

[Broomhill Ultra]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1354225/Nicola-sturgeon-news-Brexit-uk-space-agency-Shetland-space-centre-scotland

Game changer.

[Stellaboz]

56 minutes ago, Broomhill Ultra said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1354225/Nicola-sturgeon-news-Brexit-uk-space-agency-Shetland-space-centre-scotland

Game changer.

Aye so it is. Just like staying in the EU by voting no. 

[renton]

11 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I dunno why folk are dismissive of the space sector, it's  surprisingly big in Scotland.

Yeah, me neither. Some left over cringe factor. It's a growing sector that will only keep doing so, and it'll be good for Scotland's economy. We have the tech expertise and the right geography for certain orbits so why not? 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Some amount of rockets in the tory party right enough. 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

5 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Some amount of rockets in the tory party right enough. 

The one's in Scotland seem to be the worst of the lot.