The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[stu2910]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

It might be lost on you, but it's not lost on the wider population.

I love Scottish football. I watch a lot of it.

But I also understand that it's a niche interest. In the UK, hardly any c**t fucking cares about Scottish football. Expecting it to be front and centre in UK-wide news broadcasts is wild.

This is missing the point entirely though. Why do people in Scotland care about English football?  The very top teams fine, but why are people watching Blackburn v Sheff We’d earlier today?  Is it because it’s so much better than Motherwell v Aberdeen?

[eez-eh]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

So what's your fucking point?

BBC One and Five Live are defacto English stations. If you haven't grasped this, then I can'thelp you.

Scotland has its own BBC media. They cover Scottish football. Absolutely nobody who isn;t accessing BBC Scotland's Scottish football coverage in the UK gives a flying f**k about Scottish football, so it is not widely covered elsewhere.

What part of this is difficult for you?

The BBC's regional English output is irrelevant in all of this. English people find English football interesting. They do not find Scottish football interesting.

Do. You. Get. It?

That they shouldn’t be defacto English stations. I don’t think anyone is contesting that they are.

Why are you struggling so much to grasp that?

And why are you being such a condescending w**k?

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, stu2910 said:

This is missing the point entirely though. Why do people in Scotland care about English football?  The very top teams fine, but why are people watching Blackburn v Sheff We’d earlier today?  Is it because it’s so much better than Motherwell v Aberdeen?

f**k me.

BECAUSE IT'S QUITE GOOD.

And, to be honest, aye, it is miles better than Motherwell v Aberdeen.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, eez-eh said:

That they shouldn’t be defacto English stations. I don’t think anyone is contesting that they are.

Why are you struggling so much to grasp that?

And why are you being such a condescending w**k?

Jesus Christ.

Good night to you.

[stu2910]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

So what's your fucking point?

BBC One and Five Live are defacto English stations. If you haven't grasped this, then I can'thelp you.

Scotland has its own BBC media. They cover Scottish football. Absolutely nobody who isn;t accessing BBC Scotland's Scottish football coverage in the UK gives a flying f**k about Scottish football, so it is not widely covered elsewhere.

What part of this is difficult for you?

The BBC's regional English output is irrelevant in all of this. English people find English football interesting. They do not find Scottish football interesting.

Do. You. Get. It?

We are essentially making the same points here but from opposite viewpoints.  You’re saying bad football has lead to a lack of coverage.  I’m saying a lack of coverage has lead to bad football.  You say English media doesn’t care about Scottish football, I say that’s exactly our biggest problem.

[eez-eh]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

f**k me.

BECAUSE IT'S QUITE GOOD.

And, to be honest, aye, it is miles better than Motherwell v Aberdeen.

Do you seriously not think that, as well as the quality, a big part of why Scottish people care so much about English football is due to English coverage relentlessly being beamed to Scotland?

[eez-eh]

“I don’t think that this should be the way it is.”

”Aye but that is what it is so deal with it.”

Brilliant argument. f**k me.

[2426255]

3 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

BBC Scotland reports on the Scottish stuff. It's of absolutely no interest to the vast majority of Five Live's audience. Scottish people living in England have access to BBC Scotland. It cannot be expressed enough that Scottish football is not of interest to a general UK audience.

That's true in my experience, live down there for 5 minutes and it's easy to completely lose touch with Scottish football.

[Ray Patterson]

14 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Not sure why you think anyone would or should be interested.

We've got BBC Scotland for our stuff. Nobody down south gives a f**k about the Scottish Cup, and very few people could even tell you who is playing in the semis.

No point pretending it's news.

I'm not sure that's completely true in all honestly. The BBC (network) went all out for Darvel, and in the past have done some pretty big stuff for Scottish Cup stories.

[Connor1874]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

So what's your fucking point?

BBC One and Five Live are defacto English stations. If you haven't grasped this, then I can'thelp you.

Scotland has its own BBC media. They cover Scottish football. Absolutely nobody who isn;t accessing BBC Scotland's Scottish football coverage in the UK gives a flying f**k about Scottish football, so it is not widely covered elsewhere.

What part of this is difficult for you?

The BBC's regional English output is irrelevant in all of this. English people find English football interesting. They do not find Scottish football interesting.

Do. You. Get. It?

Wait. Are you telling me, contrary to what I'm led to believe, that the people of England don't tune in to watch Celtic vs Rangers 6 times a year?!

[Salvo Montalbano]

7 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

BBC One and Five Live are defacto English stations. If you haven't grasped this, then I can'thelp you

But as mentioned previously, Five Live mention all the SPFL Results (and noted the consequences for promotion, relegation and play off places), have a reporter at a Premiership game on a Saturday (usually whomever the Old Firm are playing, but not always) and had full live commentary of the recent Rangers v Celtic game. So, it can be done. They also cover all the teams in the 6 Nations, cover British athletes when in individual competitions (golf, tennis, athletics, whatever) and will obviously do the same at the Euros. Or do you think Five Live ignores Wales v Scotland, Andy Murray, Laura Muir and our Euros games because they are really just an English station?

[TheScarf]

Being the forum contrarian is obviously @VincentGuerin 's gimmick, but I agree with him on this one.

[AndyM]

9 hours ago, 2426255 said:

That's true in my experience, live down there for 5 minutes and it's easy to completely lose touch with Scottish football.

Totally and @VincentGuerin is correct on this.

I was down there after I finished University for 2 years in the mid 1990s. Worked and live in North London. Used to go watch Barnet regularly and occasionally trips to White Hart Lane which was more expensive on a grad's salary. Scottish Football was not on the radar. Only time I reconnected was when I'd sometimes buy a Sunday Mail and read inevitably about Rangers and Celtic.   It's really easy to lose touch with it. 

Nobody was interested. My local boozer had two tvs, SkySports was gaining traction and it was always on and they just didn't bother with even the Old Firm game. Why show that when Watford v West Brom was also on?

Edited April 22 by AndyM

[Dons_1988]

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment here but the bbc and plenty of media outlets have shown that if they want people to give more of a f**k about something then they will do it. There’s a chicken and egg situation here with what influences what people are interested in. 

Id suggest that the level of interest shown in womens football going back 5-10 years wouldn’t have justified the level of coverage it has received in recent times and yet (and I say this as a supporter of this effort) they have made a decision that womens football is criminally under represented beyond a niche interest and it needed addressed.

Thats not to say that Scottish football should be front and centre but they clearly feel that its place in the uk psyche is a regional backwater and that suits them. Theres plenty of levers they could pull to increase it, whether it was an incremental increase in coverage at a uk level or more funding to regional outlets.

But they absolutely perpetuate the ‘no one gives a f**k about Scottish football’ opinion. 

[kennie makevin]

21 hours ago, Charles Stiles said:

Any more? 

Yep. There are no Scots living in England of course. Sounds like you work for the BBC.

Having lived in England for many years through the 80s and 90s I can concur that no one cares about Scottish football down there. Why should they when it's for the most part such predictable garbage. 

[Leith Green]

16 minutes ago, AndyM said:

Totally and @VincentGuerin is correct on this.

I was down there after I finished University for 2 years in the mid 1990s. Worked and live in North London. Used to go watch Barnet regularly and occasionally trips to White Hart Lane which was more expensive on a grad's salary. Scottish Football was not on the radar. Only time I reconnected was when I'd sometimes buy a Sunday Mail and read inevitably about Rangers and Celtic.   It's really easy to lose touch with it. 

Nobody was interested. My local boozer had two tvs, SkySports was gaining traction and it was always on and they just didn't bother with even the Old Firm game. Why show that when Watford v West Brom was also on?

None of that is untrue, and it reflects my experience when I go to visit my Sister who stays in the west country.

They have no idea (except my brother in law, who does actually follow scottish fitba as well and comes to ER when he is up here).

But I think part of the point is that the likes of the BBC will give more coverage to the Womens Super League where ( apart from Arsenal who are a massive outlier ) their crowds are pretty small than Scottish Football.......except for the usual "Rangers won, or Celtic drew with" etc.

I dont think that they are genuinely reflective of "the nation" and its regions relative interest in football.

I get that Scotland is a small country relative to England, but I dont need to be a maths whizz to know that the relative amounts spent on football coverage dont add up.

[kennie makevin]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment here but the bbc and plenty of media outlets have shown that if they want people to give more of a f**k about something then they will do it. There’s a chicken and egg situation here with what influences what people are interested in. 

Id suggest that the level of interest shown in womens football going back 5-10 years wouldn’t have justified the level of coverage it has received in recent times and yet (and I say this as a supporter of this effort) they have made a decision that womens football is criminally under represented beyond a niche interest and it needed addressed.

Thats not to say that Scottish football should be front and centre but they clearly feel that its place in the uk psyche is a regional backwater and that suits them. Theres plenty of levers they could pull to increase it, whether it was an incremental increase in coverage at a uk level or more funding to regional outlets.

But they absolutely perpetuate the ‘no one gives a f**k about Scottish football’ opinion. 

No one is 'perpetuating' that 'opinion.' In England it is a fact, as any time spent living down there will confirm.

[Lex]

25 minutes ago, AndyM said:

Totally and @VincentGuerin is correct on this.

I was down there after I finished University for 2 years in the mid 1990s. Worked and live in North London. Used to go watch Barnet regularly and occasionally trips to White Hart Lane which was more expensive on a grad's salary. Scottish Football was not on the radar. Only time I reconnected was when I'd sometimes buy a Sunday Mail and read inevitably about Rangers and Celtic.   It's really easy to lose touch with it. 

Nobody was interested. My local boozer had two tvs, SkySports was gaining traction and it was always on and they just didn't bother with even the Old Firm game. Why show that when Watford v West Brom was also on?

Yeah having spent a lot of time in England over the years I'd broadly agree with this. I've always thought that English football fans attitude to domestic Scottish football is similar to Scottish football fans attitude to domestic Irish football.  They know it exists and they could tell you the names of some of the teams. If there's a bit of geekery there they might even know one or two managers and players. Beyond that there's no real knowledge of who's winning what or who's in what league, and like us about Irish football, they just aren't interested.  

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, kennie makevin said:

No one is 'perpetuating' that 'opinion.' In England it is a fact, as any time spent living down there will confirm.

I’ve lived there too and I know they don’t care. But you’re being naive if you think that isn’t at least in part influenced by media coverage. It’s played a key part in women’s football. Increased coverage means increased interest, which leads to increased investment which leads to the quality improving which drives more interest. It’s a self fulfilling cycle. 

[VincentGuerin]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’ve lived there too and I know they don’t care. But you’re being naive if you think that isn’t at least in part influenced by media coverage. It’s played a key part in women’s football. Increased coverage means increased interest, which leads to increased investment which leads to the quality improving which drives more interest. It’s a self fulfilling cycle. 

It's not quite the same thing. Women's football happens in England and is of interest to the local population.

Of course media attention drives interest, but to what end would there be media attention on Scottish football in England? What does the local population do with that?

There's only so much space, and England is a more multi-sport envronment than Scotland as well. They've got the Premier League, well-supported lower league, cricket, rugby, etc to cover. It's a very hard sell to say that their audience is being served in any way by shoe-horning in coverage of something that just isn't relevant to them.

We have our own coverage. It may be shite, but that's a different issue.

The plus side to all this is that most of my English mates have absolutely no idea Hearts have been relegated twice in the last decade. Didn't register at all. Which is nice. Most folk reckon we're still owned by that Latvian/Russian/foreign guy.