Scotrail

[Ginaro]

20 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

It’s almost as if they’ve planned to bring in all these new trains, but only realised right at the last minute as they’re being implemented “oh f**k, we need to retrain all these c***s to drive these things”.

I struggle to think of any other industry so routinely affected from a lack of basic planning. Complete and utter charlatans.

Well until they have the trains, you can't train staff on them. Drivers can't be trained too far in advance as their competency will run out, and there's conductors who will need different training to deal with the slam door HSTs because their refurbishment is taking ages.

Of course if everything went perfectly then with the transfer of trains from other operators, their refurbishment, and new trains/infrastructure then all would be fine. But there just seems to be no slack or contingency planning in the system.

[eez-eh]

5 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Well until they have the trains, you can't train staff on them. Drivers can't be trained too far in advance as their competency will run out, and there's conductors who will need different training to deal with the slam door HSTs because their refurbishment is taking ages.

Of course if everything went perfectly then with the transfer of trains from other operators, their refurbishment, and new trains/infrastructure then all would be fine. But there just seems to be no slack or contingency planning in the system.

But that is clearly known well in advance by the operators. Surely it would be sensible to either A. Have some sort of plan in place for such times that would allow services to run as normal, or B. Be honest and give passengers plenty of warning that services will be severely disrupted on X dates while training is in progress.

From the outside looking in it’s as if they just wait right until the moment shit hits the fan before they start cancelling services left, right and centre.

[drs]

There have been major issues with the refurbishment programme of the old HSTs. I've been told that currently only 2 sets of HST are operational and one of those is having to be used for training hence some of the problems. Apparently they have discovered that there is a severe corrosion issue on the  roofs of the old HSTs, hence why its taking so long to complete the refurbs.

As I've mentioned before, the new timetable and trains were supposed to come online last May, at the same time as those well publicised new timetable fiascos in England, but delays on the refurbishment and the electrification programme pushed that back to December and they still didn't have the trains or trained staff for that go live date. Its staggering that with over six months notice of the go live date of these changes that they have still managed to make a total Horlicks of it.

 

 

[jamamafegan]

Scotrail have an absolute cheek hiking their prices up given the shocking standards of late. I’m dreading over giving them my money for going to work tomorrow. I think they’re taking the piss out of us and aren’t being held to account for it.

[DA Baracus]

They raise the prices every year and it just gets more and more of a rip off.

[Ross.]

50 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

Scotrail have an absolute cheek hiking their prices up given the shocking standards of late. I’m dreading over giving them my money for going to work tomorrow. I think they’re taking the piss out of us and aren’t being held to account for it.

The service you get and the value for money is absolutely horrendous. Still find it odd that I pay less a month for a travel pass which covers the entire country for busses, trains, ferries on the lakes and trains up the mountains that it would cost for a zone card covering Glasgow alone.

[Hampden Diehard]

At least in Scotland if a train stops you can get on it. I think I'm correct in saying that in England you buy a ticket for a particular company's service and have to wait for their train.

The whole privatisation thing for transport is a feckin mess. The sooner we have one organisation covering all transport the better. I'm just back from the Netherlands and one card gets you on all transport. Mind you, it relies on the honesty of the passengers. We see getting something for nothing as a target in the UK.

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

At least in Scotland if a train stops you can get on it. I think I'm correct in saying that in England you buy a ticket for a particular company's service and have to wait for their train.
 

I know people who have been done for traveling with a Scotrail ticket between Edinburgh and Inverness on a LNER train or whatever they're calling it now. Not sure if you get the same trouble on Virgin trains. In England you only have to pay more if you buy a cheap ticket for a slow train and jump on an express service instead, like between London and Gatwick

[19QOS19]

At least in Scotland if a train stops you can get on it. I think I'm correct in saying that in England you buy a ticket for a particular company's service and have to wait for their train. 

The whole privatisation thing for transport is a feckin mess. The sooner we have one organisation covering all transport the better. I'm just back from the Netherlands and one card gets you on all transport. Mind you, it relies on the honesty of the passengers. We see getting something for nothing as a target in the UK.

 

I know people who have been done for traveling with a Scotrail ticket between Edinburgh and Inverness on a LNER train or whatever they're calling it now. Not sure if you get the same trouble on Virgin trains. In England you only have to pay more if you buy a cheap ticket for a slow train and jump on an express service instead, like between London and Gatwick

If it says Any Permitted Route you're fine. But if people buy tickets to go south online they can sometimes get cheaper deals providing they travel with that company (Transpennine and Virgin normally).  

It's normally the guard's discretion. As it takes about an hour longer on the services I take I usually let people travel as they have enough on their plate because they tend to miss their connection by getting on the wrong one from Glasgow. I know some guard's will charge people the excess or send them back to Glasgow to get the correct service but generally that's if the passenger is giving them grief.

 

 

 

[MONKMAN]

My day return ticket to Glasgow on Thursday, was the same price as my return flights to Frankfurt at the end of this month.

[Highland Capital]

I was looking up the train to Edinburgh a while back (the same one where I saw the woman eating a slice of bread which I mentioned on another thread).  The 0530 and 0650 trains Inverness trains were reasonably priced as they go.  The one at 0430 was...£56!

[Ginaro]

29 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

But that is clearly known well in advance by the operators. Surely it would be sensible to either A. Have some sort of plan in place for such times that would allow services to run as normal, or B. Be honest and give passengers plenty of warning that services will be severely disrupted on X dates while training is in progress.

From the outside looking in it’s as if they just wait right until the moment shit hits the fan before they start cancelling services left, right and centre.

The issue is Scotrail has lost at least twenty Class 170 trains to Northern over the course of 2018, so it's not like they can say we'll just go back to a normal service. The refurbished HSTs were meant to start arriving in June 2018 with all 27 delivered and in service by December. But in fact there's only one just now, plus some other unrefurbished ones which have arrived too late. 

It is a shitshow but you wonder if any other private or nationalised company would have done better (for the same price). You would expect Hitachi to be able to make new electric trains which didn't have windscreen issues to delay their introduction. But there aren't any other diesel trains lying around that meet the franchise requirements for Inter-city stock, so it's either refurbish some trains or buy new ones at greater cost - and who knows if they could have been built in time.

3 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

Scotrail have an absolute cheek hiking their prices up given the shocking standards of late. I’m dreading over giving them my money for going to work tomorrow. I think they’re taking the piss out of us and aren’t being held to account for it.

85% of Scotrail's revenue comes from tickets whose fares increases are controlled by the Scottish government, if they wanted they could reduce the price rise but then taxpayers would need to make up the shortfall.

46 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

At least in Scotland if a train stops you can get on it. I think I'm correct in saying that in England you buy a ticket for a particular company's service and have to wait for their train.

Not necessarily, there are LNER or Scotrail-only tickets from say Edinburgh to Aberdeen or Virgin v TPE services to England. You can buy anytime singles to allow you on any train but tickets for a particular company will usually be cheaper as there's fewer trains for you to catch.

It's the same in England with the Birmingham to London route for example as there's multiple operators.

[Savage Henry]

18 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I know people who have been done for traveling with a Scotrail ticket between Edinburgh and Inverness on a LNER train or whatever they're calling it now. Not sure if you get the same trouble on Virgin trains. In England you only have to pay more if you buy a cheap ticket for a slow train and jump on an express service instead, like between London and Gatwick

The cheapest tickets usually say which routes they are valid for, and can only be transferred if there are delays or cancellations, or so it would seem from my experience.  In any case, I have no idea why anyone would choose a Scotrail service to Edinburgh from Inverness if the LNER is a genuine option.  The 0755 service is a cracker.  The difference between Scotrail's First Class service and LNER's variant is night and day.

[jamamafegan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46775079

Seems things are reaching boiling point. Get Abellio to f**k, I want a public railway.

[Guest JTS98]

I was back in Scotland for a few months last year and was genuinely astonished at how bad the trains were.

I travelled frequently between Glasgow and Edinburgh. At least three times a week for various reasons. Weekdays, weekends, mornings, afternoons, evenings.

There was not one week where I didn't have either a cancellation or a significant delay. On one occasion I was sitting on the train to Motherwell from Waverley (three something in the afternoon), which didn't leave on time with no explanation. Then, to the bewilderment of all on board, suddenly the board on the platform indicated that our train was now going somewhere else. No mention of what had happened to the scheduled Motherwell train. No staff around, obviously. Total confusion. I got off the train and went for a pint.

Another day I was waiting for the train to leave Waverley to go to Queen Street when they announced a platform change about two minutes before departure. Dozens of people run round to the new platform and jump onto the train which was sitting with the doors open. It's quite busy, lots of people on board. One guy near me notices that there's nothing on the wee destination screen at the end of the carriage. Spots a staff member walking up the platform so shouts to ask him if this is the Glasgow train. The guy laughs and says no, the Glasgow train is the one further up the platform and ours is going nowhere. This arsepiece could see dozens of people crammed into the carriages, obviously expecting to go to Glasgow, and unless he'd been asked, he wouldn't have bothered his arse to tell us all we were on the wrong train. Incredible. The boy that asked him the question spoke for us all when he said "Thanks for your help, arsehole".

These are the two most memorable occasions, but I think there were only three days where my journey just worked as planned. It was ridiculous. It got to the point where I was deliberately making plans later than necessary because I assumed the trains would let me down. I was usually right.

ETA: Special mention for the day the Glasgow to East Kilbride train dumped everyone out at Clarkston after sitting there for about ten minutes, no explanation given, just told to wait for the next train. Got to the platform to see the next two trains showing as 'cancelled'. I went for a pint then went back to check the board again. Third train also showing as 'cancelled'. I got another pint and got a mate to pick me up.

The trains in Scotland are miles and miles and miles behind the times. Shite service, far too expensive, unhelpful and clearly poorly trained staff. The whole thing needs a complete reboot.

Edited January 7, 2019 by JTS98

[Jason King]

4 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46775079

Seems things are reaching boiling point. Get Abellio to f**k, I want a public railway.

Ah, someone not old enough to remember the bad old days of British Rail.

Abellio are dreadful but are still miles better than the service we had to put up with in the 70s, nationalisation is not the answer.

 

[Scary Bear]

Hallelujah! The 4.34 Edinburgh to Perth Train - the last off-peak service in the evening, and busiest service in Scotland - finally has 3 coaches. If this is a permanent feature then things are looking up.

That’s only taken the various Scotrail operators 10+ years to sort out the difficult process of adding one additional carriage to a service. Celebrate good times, come on! Well done Scotrail!

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Jason King said:

Ah, someone not old enough to remember the bad old days of British Rail.

Abellio are dreadful but are still miles better than the service we had to put up with in the 70s, nationalisation is not the answer.

 

No, accountability is, but it seems that Abellio are allowed to do whatever the f**k they want with no consequences.

[jamamafegan]

My train has been cancelled, b*****ds. I deliberately left work needing the toilet so I wouldn’t miss the train. Then I was faced with having to pay the exact 30p to pish at the station. I contemplated jumping the barrier but shat out of it and instead opted to walk to Cafe Nero and pish there. No chance these c***s are getting any more of my money, especially after their own incompetence scuppered my pissing plans.

[MEADOWXI]

Ah, someone not old enough to remember the bad old days of British Rail.
Abellio are dreadful but are still miles better than the service we had to put up with in the 70s, nationalisation is not the answer.
 

Any thought that nationalisation would be a return to the 70s is as stupid as current Abellio management.
Too much has changed for that and public services when accountable work.

The East Coast Main Line has three times be run by the public Direct Rail, each time after a private company has fucked off after making a f**k of the service or the accounts or both.

Every time it has been publicly run it has run at a profit and handed more money to the treasury than the private companies