The Partick Thistle thread

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

Except he overturned 2 of his original decisions. So not quite so competent. And the 1st one that he didn’t. It’s as clear as day a penalty. The County player is nowhere near the ball.

I've watched it half a dozen times now and I'm still not certain who fouled who to be honest. I'd not have given it as a penalty either and I've no skin in the game. It's certainly not "as clear as day a penalty". It's a coin flip. I think it's right VAR asked the ref to look at it but I think he was right to say there wasn't enough there to change his original call.

The other two VAR calls are very obviously correct. It's a penalty, it's not a red.

Thistle should absolutely have won. They were much the better side over two legs. The reason they didn't was being horribly wasteful on Thursday in a game they should have won by 4 or 5, not because of VAR yesterday.

[Old Pack]

1 hour ago, Stoo61 said:

I know you all know this but....OAFT, thats gotta be the sarest bottle job yet. 

Take some time off lads, you deserve it. 

Oh and we're all "perennial loser teams" and its better than being a fan of the sole team in Scotland that isn't. 

Fans of the second most successful club in Scotland in the last 10 years take offence at that comment.

[oneteaminglasgow]

The one on Docherty wasn’t a penalty. Haven’t seen the other two, but no reason to doubt the neutrals saying the referee got them right after the check. 

We lost because we panicked after the first goal and immediately gave away a second. If we just kept the ball for a few minutes and killed the game, we’re a Premiership club right now. Then we missed two really, really good chances in extra time. Not to mention that it really should’ve been more than two at Firhill.

[jagsfan57]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've watched it half a dozen times now and I'm still not certain who fouled who to be honest. I'd not have given it as a penalty either and I've no skin in the game. It's certainly not "as clear as day a penalty". It's a coin flip. I think it's right VAR asked the ref to look at it but I think he was right to say there wasn't enough there to change his original call.

The other two VAR calls are very obviously correct. It's a penalty, it's not a red.

Thistle should absolutely have won. They were much the better side over two legs. The reason they didn't was being horribly wasteful on Thursday in a game they should have won by 4 or 5, not because of VAR yesterday.

The first point I don’t get at all. You have a referee in the VAR room looking at an incident and telling the ref on the pitch that he has missed something. It is inexplicable to me why the referee didn’t award a penalty.

[JagsCG]

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/free-to-view-ross-county-reaction-kris-doolan-4th-june-2023/
 

Doolan’s post-match interview for anyone who’s yet to see it. 

 

[Stoo61]

6 minutes ago, Old Pack said:

Fans of the second most successful club in Scotland in the last 10 years take offence at that comment.

If a team wins 2 cups and no one is there to see it, does it really win 2 cups?

[JagsCG]

4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

The one on Docherty wasn’t a penalty. Haven’t seen the other two, but no reason to doubt the neutrals saying the referee got them right after the check. 

We lost because we panicked after the first goal and immediately gave away a second. If we just kept the ball for a few minutes and killed the game, we’re a Premiership club right now. Then we missed two really, really good chances in extra time. 

Putting the ball out of play right from kick off, with a slack pass was absolutely criminal. Quite literally telling the County lads to just come at us. The pendulum had well and truly swung after that point, we knew what was coming next. 

[Widge]

12 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

The first point I don’t get at all. You have a referee in the VAR room looking at an incident and telling the ref on the pitch that he has missed something. It is inexplicable to me why the referee didn’t award a penalty.

That's not the point of VAR though, the referee was asked to take a look at something that might have been deemed an error, except he stuck with his original on field decision as it was the correct one. The only fault that VAR played in the first penalty incident was getting involved in the first place, as there wasn't actually an on field mistake.

Inexplicable is a wild take, it's not a foul and therefore it's not a penalty no matter how much you're still clinging onto it as an excuse. The referee and ultimately VAR got each and every one of the "big" decisions correct, which impacts the game, but doesn't change the outcome. The only people worthy of blame are the Thistle player's who threw it all away. 

[jagsfan57]

2 minutes ago, Widge said:

That's not the point of VAR though, the referee was asked to take a look at something that might have been deemed an error, except he stuck with his original on field decision as it was the correct one. The only fault that VAR played in the first penalty incident was getting involved in the first place, as there wasn't actually an on field mistake.

Inexplicable is a wild take, it's not a foul and therefore it's not a penalty no matter how much you're still clinging onto it as an excuse. The referee and ultimately VAR got each and every one of the "big" decisions correct, which impacts the game, but doesn't change the outcome. The only people worthy of blame are the Thistle player's who threw it all away. 

It’s not a foul if you plant your leg in front of the other player, when you have made no attempt to get the ball ? Sure, we didn’t play well and panicked after the penalty, but that wouldn’t have happened without the VAR review. It was just unfortunate that the ball hit Grahams arm and not Samuels, which initially I thought it had.

[Skyline Drifter]

21 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

The first point I don’t get at all. You have a referee in the VAR room looking at an incident and telling the ref on the pitch that he has missed something. It is inexplicable to me why the referee didn’t award a penalty.

He's told him he may want to have another look at it as there's possibly some doubt he got it right. He had several other looks at it and decided he either did get it right or that there certainly wasn't enough evidence that he got it wrong. I don't see any issue with the process. It might be argued that there in fact wasn't enough evidence he got it wrong to take it to VAR in the first place but you'd have ended up with the same result.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

It’s not a foul if you plant your leg in front of the other player, when you have made no attempt to get the ball ? Sure, we didn’t play well and panicked after the penalty, but that wouldn’t have happened without the VAR review. It was just unfortunate that the ball hit Grahams arm and not Samuels, which initially I thought it had.

No it's not. If that's what you're saying happened then no, it's not a penalty.

It's a foul if he deliberately tripped the other player. I'm not at all convinced he did. If he planted his leg on the ground between ball and player and the Thistle player then kicks it then it's a foul on the Ross County player.

[deadasdillinger]

Nice wee song about Killie getting an airing yesterday.

Keep singing it down in the Championship even though we won't hear it, you guys really seem to enjoy that one.

[jagsfan57]

12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

No it's not. If that's what you're saying happened then no, it's not a penalty.

It's a foul if he deliberately tripped the other player. I'm not at all convinced he did. If he planted his leg on the ground between ball and player and the Thistle player then kicks it then it's a foul on the Ross County player.

Re looked at it on the highlights, he trips Docherty.

[Nightmare]

2 minutes ago, deadasdillinger said:

Nice wee song about Killie getting an airing yesterday.

Keep singing it down in the Championship even though we won't hear it, you guys really seem to enjoy that one.

You say you won't hear it, but here you are (yet again) talking about it.

We have numerous songs mentioning a variety of clubs. The Old Firm, Hearts, Airdrie, Bolton ffs. For some reason Killie fans are the only ones we get in our thread mewling about how much we supposedly care about them. You're not that special, mate.

[Its not only a game]

36 minutes ago, JagsCG said:

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/free-to-view-ross-county-reaction-kris-doolan-4th-june-2023/
 

Doolan’s post-match interview for anyone who’s yet to see it. 

 

Feel for you guys, better players, better team. I am afraid though ( and know will not be a popular view)  but your manager blew it! You cant play against  10 men for most of the first game and then be 3 up in aggregate with 20 to go and lose. I know Doolan is a hero but he looked like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday-frozen by nerves- whilst Mackay( not a fan) was making changes, substitutions.

 

Great shame- don’t do an Arbroath next year. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

21 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He's told him he may want to have another look at it as there's possibly some doubt he got it right. He had several other looks at it and decided he either did get it right or that there certainly wasn't enough evidence that he got it wrong. I don't see any issue with the process. It might be argued that there in fact wasn't enough evidence he got it wrong to take it to VAR in the first place but you'd have ended up with the same result.

 

In terms of the procedure that would surely mean VAR should not have intervened though? VAR is meant to get involved when the VAR team 'thinks the on-field referee team has made a clear and obvious error'. They shouldn't be sending a referee over to look just because there may be some doubt. If that is what happened then they haven't followed the correct procedure.

To be honest I think Aitken will just have thought it was a clear penalty so has asked Walsh to go and look at the monitor, and Walsh has disagreed. It's one of those ones where I can see how people would have strong views either way, if you interpret Docherty as initiating the contact (as I do) then it's never a penalty. If you see it that Docherty has been tripped, then it's a blatant one. We've seen both views on here and perhaps Aitken and Walsh were on either side of that fence.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Diamonds are Forever

[Skyline Drifter]

7 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

Re looked at it on the highlights, he trips Docherty.

Fair enough, he might. That's your opinion, and it's understandably biased. I'm far from certain whether he trips Docherty or Docherty kicks him. Personally don't think there's enough in it for a penalty but I fully accept you might interpret it that way.

It's certainly not "as clear as day a penalty".

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

In terms of the procedure that would surely mean VAR should not have intervened though? VAR is meant to get involved when the VAR team 'thinks the on-field referee team has made a clear and obvious error'. They shouldn't be sending a referee over to look just because there may be some doubt. If that is what happened then they haven't followed the correct procedure.

To be honest I think Aitken will just have thought it was a clear penalty so has asked Walsh to go and look at the monitor, and Walsh has disagreed. It's one of those ones where I can see how people would have strong views either way, if you interpret Docherty as initiating the contact (as I do) then it's never a penalty. If you see it that Docherty has been tripped, then it's a blatant one. We've seen both views on here and perhaps Aitken and Walsh were on either side of that fence.

Yeah, take the point and said as much in the post you quoted. I'm not sure he should have called him over at all. I think in England as VAR works now they wouldn't. I think in Scotland we're still at the stage where the VAR is effectively re-refereeing it as they would have called it rather than viewing it as a "was there enough to be sure he's got it wrong" decision.

[par-adise]

44 minutes ago, JagsCG said:

Was thinking exactly this earlier. A mountain of work to be done for Doolan in the next few weeks leading up to pre season. On the plus side we do have some youngsters that will been keen to impress, I’ve really liked the look of MacKenzie, and Stanway seemed to be rated by some Airdrie fans from his loan there. 

Yes I was thinking about this while watching yesterday. Your squad will presumably be going off on holiday today feeling pretty low and negotiating contracts etc. Looks like you have a few out of contract who will have plenty of suitors (Turner and Tiffoney in particular).

Compare that to us who have the core of last season's squad signed up and back in for the first day of preseason today after a month off. 

[craigkillie]

4 minutes ago, Its not only a game said:

Feel for you guys, better players, better team. I am afraid though ( and know will not be a popular view)  but your manager blew it! You cant play against  10 men for most of the first game and then be 3 up in aggregate with 20 to go and lose. I know Doolan is a hero but he looked like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday-frozen by nerves- whilst Mackay( not a fan) was making changes, substitutions.

 

Great shame- don’t do an Arbroath next year. 

 

Mackay had to make changes because his team were playing badly, Doolan didn't have to make changes because his team were playing relatively well. It's easy to say this stuff in the aftermath, but ultimately Thistle did enough to win the tie 95% of the time. Unfortunately for them, yesterday was the other 5%, where everything that could go wrong did from about the 70th minute onwards.