Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

I mean, he only has 6 months or whatever of his deal to run so it's not like binning him should be a problem.

What is a problem is that I don't trust the judgement of anyone who's likely to be involved in the process of finding a replacement.

Either way, he should absolutely be toast now - that's the sort of result and general omnishambles that there's no coming back from.

On 05/02/2023 at 16:13, capt_oats said:

I'd be surprised if he didn't get next week but out of curiosity I had a look at the runs preceding recent managers leaving and respective league positions:

Alexander (sacked/mutual consent  - 29th July 2022) (N/A previous season 5th) - 3 wins in 18 league games
Robinson (resigned - 31st December 2020) (10th) - 0 wins in 8 league games
McGhee (sacked - 28th February 2017) (10th) - 2 wins in 13 league games
Baraclough (sacked 23rd September 2015) (9th) - 2 wins in 8 league games
McCall (resigned - 2nd November 2014) (10th) - 2 wins in 12 league games

I mean, Hammell is currently 11th with 1 win in 15 and no prior track record to fall back on.

That...doesn't look good?

As for replacements I've posted before but we've generally had a profile of candidate that's worked out for us in the past...I'll just re-up the post from when we lost the run of ourselves and just thought "f**k it" and gave Hammell the job:

On 02/05/2022 at 12:07, capt_oats said:

Give or take you can generally profile what we look for: 40-50, some experience - likely with 1 or 2 jobs behind them plus coaching, we generally don't make appointments who have managed at other Scottish clubs and I'm pretty sure you have to go back as far as Davies for a former (or current) player.

Of our recent managers Brown and McGhee are really the only ones who don't fit that description in terms of age and experience, although we seemed to go through a phase in the 90s - 00s of giving folk their first management jobs. Understandably we haven't done that since Malpas.

Also AFAIK McGhee's the only manager we've had to have 2 stints in the job.

Since McLean;

(94-98): McLeish -35, Previous club managed; n/a
(98): Kampman - 43, Previous clubs; Reipas (?), MyPa47 (?)
(98-01): Davies - 34, previous club; n/a
(01-02): Black - 39, previous club; n/a
(02-06): Butcher -43, previous clubs; Coventry (33.33%), Sunderland (30.23%)
(06-07): Malpas -43, previous clubs; n/a
(07-09): McGhee - 50, previous clubs; Reading (43.2%), Leicester (31.4%), Wolves (40.9%), Millwall (46.0%), Brighton (28.8%)
(09): Gannon - 40, previous clubs; Dundalk (36.1%), Stockport (43.4%)
(09-10): Brown - 69, previous clubs; Clyde (33.17%), Scotland u21s (43.18%), Scotland (45.07%), Preston (33.96%) 
(10-14): McCall - 46, previous club; Bradford (34.6% win)
(14-15): Baraclough - 44, previous clubs; Scunthorpe (23.5%), Sligo (55.0%) 
(15-17): McGhee - 58, previous clubs; Reading (43.2%), Leicester (31.4%), Wolves (40.9%), Millwall (46.0%), Brighton (28.8%), Motherwell (39.8%), Aberdeen (27.4%), Bristol Rovers (26.7%)
(17-20): Robinson - 42, previous club; Oldham (21.2%)
(21-present): Alexander - 49, previous clubs; Fleetwood (38.6%), Scunthorpe (46.9%), Salford (48.2%)

[fat_tony]

Bring back Jim Gannon. Finally the rest of the league has caught up with his style of football. Visionary.

[CoF]

46 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Would it?

The last time he inherited Randolph, Hateley, Hammell, Craigan, Hutchinson, Reynolds (albeit for a month), Jennings, Lasley, Humphrey, Murphy and Sutton. 

We can only dream of that standard of player nowadays.

I think I give him more credit when I look back at 2013 2014 where he took us to second with regular starts from Gunnar Neilson, Lee Hollis, Craig Reid, Simon Ramsden, Paul Lawson, Zaine Francis-Angol, Stuart Carswell and Fraser Kerr. Granted he still had a good core group with Faddy, Sutton, McManus, Hammell, Lasley and Hutchison but that season still feels like a kinda remarkable achievement. I always think McCall was pivotal to success that year as opposed to any luck with the squad. 

 

[Al B]

Just seen Liam Kelly's post match interview. He's definitely been crying, and looks like he's about to start again any second.

He also doesn't know what "they had no right to be there" means.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Al B

[Swello]

End of the line stuff tonight - I thought Saturday was that but the late goal prolonged things by a game. 

The same logic that had St Johnstone and County make their move applies to us too. 

Nothing is irretrievable at this point and we would be better acting while that's still the case. 

Changing manager is needed now but the management structure at the club needs fixed too - those running the place are underperforming every bit as badly as the manager. We've gone from a stable club that were well run to a bit of a mess. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I really feel for Kettlewell, he genuinely seems like a decent guy which really isn't a given for Scottish Premiership managers. I'd probably give him Saturday if I had any faith that he'd play a 5-3-2 with a left footed wingback and a midfield 3 of 3 midfielders but it feels like he's straying further away from that rather than closer.

[rowsdower]

27 minutes ago, Al B said:

Just seen Liam Kelly's post match interview. He's definitely been crying, and looks like he's about to start again any second.

He also doesn't know what "they had no right to be there" means.

Yeah, I'm guessing he either meant that the players didn't have the right to expect the fans to travel all that way to support them, or that the fans shouldn't have to go up there on a Tuesday.  Either way, nice gesture to put himself out there and apologize, ruined by him not knowing what words mean.

[Stevie Kirk]

We have no right to go up to Dingwall and expect three points. 

However that was a “ sack the manager” performance from the team - SK is not getting a tune out of them anymore and it’s not going to change. If we keep him in place we will continue to lose game after game until he is sacked as he isn’t turning this around.

I really didn’t want this for him as he seems like a very decent bloke. 

 

 

[ropy]

34 minutes ago, Al B said:

Just seen Liam Kelly's post match interview. He's definitely been crying, and looks like he's about to start again any second.

He also doesn't know what "they had no right to be there" means.

Is that not just a rerun of his Raith Rovers interview with the same dodgy phraseology.

[Hoose Rice]

I feel really bad for Kettlerwell. (sp)  for a Rangers fan who looks like he he irons his hair he seems a good guy and probably a very good coach. 

Hope you guys stay up. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Hoose Rice

[rowsdower]

We need to practice not ignoring wee guys at crosses, are we only looking up?

[MurrayWell]

Serious questions need to be asked, and not only of the coaching staff.

Fully expect Kettlewell to be away one way or another after that result, but have absolutely zero faith in those making the decisions at the club. Gave Hammell a job he wasn't qualified for, over more experienced options, because "he's a good Motherwell man".

Still no sign of a permanent CEO, so absolutely no direction. Time for new ideas from the very top down imo. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by MurrayWell

[Sonam]

7 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I really feel for Kettlewell, he genuinely seems like a decent guy which really isn't a given for Scottish Premiership managers. I'd probably give him Saturday if I had any faith that he'd play a 5-3-2 with a left footed wingback and a midfield 3 of 3 midfielders but it feels like he's straying further away from that rather than closer.

Yeah, apparently he is a geniunely nice person and the players at County liked him. I wanted him to do really well when he left. He was a hard working, solid player as well and did a lot of good things at County. I was sad when he left tbh.

Hope he stays and you beat St. Johnstone, then St. Mirren. Rangers too!!

Really decent support Motherwell had last night, singing positively up until the 3rd goal. I expected negativity and there wasn't from what I could hear.

Despite an off form Motherwell, there is no way they will be relegated or in the play offs. Your goaly isnae good tho!

[well fan for life]

I'm not even particularly pushing for Kettlewell to get sacked tbh. Even if we bin him and win on Saturday it's going to be a sticking plaster over a gaping wound and we'll be back in this position in about 6 months time.

Not going to retread old ground but the club is a complete mess from top to bottom and I can't see any of it improving any time soon. 

[18May1991]

9 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I'm not even particularly pushing for Kettlewell to get sacked tbh. Even if we bin him and win on Saturday it's going to be a sticking plaster over a gaping wound and we'll be back in this position in about 6 months time.

Not going to retread old ground but the club is a complete mess from top to bottom and I can't see any of it improving any time soon. 

This. It’s pretty depressing tbh. 

[Handsome_Devil]

18 minutes ago, 18May1991 said:

This. It’s pretty depressing tbh. 

I actually think we'll scramble to safety this year, maybe through the playoff, but even if so next year is relegation o'clock.

On the other hand, maybe it's just my old age but I'm actually relatively calm about it. The goal of Society ownership is/was to secure the future of the club and it's done/doing that. We've had an insane run, which no one could expect, and if it's our turn to take a hit then so be it. 

In due course things will turn again.

 

[Kempes]

13 hours ago, billyg said:

Peter Dolan ?

The very man. I didn’t want to name him.

[capt_oats]

10 hours ago, btb said:

From the outside - are we saying Kettlewell got lucky with Van Veen hitting a hot streak around the time of his appointment?

Not really. Van Veen was scoring goals for Hammell and we were still 11th when he was emptied.

There's a credible argument that Van Veen's 'hot streak' as you put it was a direct result of Kettlewell's management and him getting the best out of the player - that's not really getting lucky.

Kettlewell benefitted from having one of the best strikers in the league available to him, sure but there's no getting away from the fact that Hammell's side was manifestly broken and he fixed it.

He immediately improved us defensively, simplified our game tactically and we stopped shipping as many daft goals on top of that we started playing players in their correct positions rather than things like trying to play KVV as a winger - the irony that Kettlewell seems to have come full circle with an absolutely wild starting XI last night isn't lost on us.

As I said the other day Kettlewell being the right guy for the job he was asked to do last season is very different to him being the right guy for the long term.

Edited December 6, 2023 by capt_oats

[Ron Aldo]

I was still on the fence re Kettlewell but he needs to go after last night. The team selection alone shows he's out of ideas and just flinging shite at the wall.

That being said it now means that Kelly, O'Donnell, Slattery and Mugabi (all so called senior players) are now seeing their 3rd manager out the door with a few others on their 2nd.

Whoever comes in HAS to have experience. Hammell was completely wrong and Kettlewell has now shown in his 2 managerial jobs that when plan A goes to shit, he's done. 

[eliphas]

15 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

I was still on the fence re Kettlewell but he needs to go after last night. The team selection alone shows he's out of ideas and just flinging shite at the wall.

That being said it now means that Kelly, O'Donnell, Slattery and Mugabi (all so called senior players) are now seeing their 3rd manager out the door with a few others on their 2nd.

Whoever comes in HAS to have experience. Hammell was completely wrong and Kettlewell has now shown in his 2 managerial jobs that when plan A goes to shit, he's done. 

100% agree with all this. 

It looked like the manager was out of ideas last night, looked like the players have lost all confidence him in too. His language has also changed to shifting blame on to players. All signposts to a sacking I think.

I'd maybe hold on to him if I had confidence in his recruitment ability.  But I really lack his judgement on that and it doesn't seem like he has the contacts to bring anyone else outside the box to the table.