The Official Former President Trump thread

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Never been a fan of Bercow, but fair play to him, that was good. All we need now is for Liz to throw a sickie and the state visit will just consist of dinner at Downing Street and a weekend at Nigel's.

[Granny Danger]

23 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

Looking at my user name I'm obviously a p***k.
Looking at your user name you're obviously a c**t.

No it's nothing to do with your name.  You're a 'nationalist' in the worst sense of the word.  Small minded and myopic.  If there was a Trump-like character in this country espousing "Scotland First" in the same way that Trump espouses "America First" he would be your hero.

 

[RadgerTheBadger]

There are only three people who have spoken to the MP's at Westminster Hall- Obama, Mandela, and Aung San Suu Kyi

Would that be Mandela the mass murdering terrorist b*****d?
Let's not even mention Obama who was at war for every single day of his tenure, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who were killed, injured or displaced as a result of his actions

[welshbairn]

Would that be Mandela the mass murdering terrorist b*****d?
Let's not even mention Obama who was at war for every single day of his tenure, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who were killed, injured or displaced as a result of his actions

Time for your pills Ranger.

[Cerberus]

40 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

No it's nothing to do with your name.  You're a 'nationalist' in the worst sense of the word.  Small minded and myopic.  If there was a Trump-like character in this country espousing "Scotland First" in the same way that Trump espouses "America First" he would be your hero.

 

Weren't you a mad Yes voter?

[RedRob72]

Isn't the Speaker supposed to be completely neutral and independent, steering clear of personal political comment? I've no time for Trump, but Bercow has clearly stepped beyond his remit, role and position in the house. A very self-important man indeed! He certainly did offer a warm welcome to the Chinese Premier at WM.

[jmothecat]

Weren't you a mad Yes voter?

I can't say I'm overly fond of any sort of nationalism but there is a clear distinction between civic nationalism and the above nationalism expressed by willie. It's also quite clearly possible to be a yes voter but not a nationalist.

[mjw]

Never been a fan of Bercow, but fair play to him, that was good. All we need now is for Liz to throw a sickie and the state visit will just consist of dinner at Downing Street and a weekend at Nigel's.

Nigel's house or Nigel's 'bachelor pad'?

[Theo Snelders]

52 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

Isn't the Speaker supposed to be completely neutral and independent, steering clear of personal political comment? I've no time for Trump, but Bercow has clearly stepped beyond his remit, role and position in the house. A very self-important man indeed! He certainly did offer a warm welcome to the Chinese Premier at WM.

This is pretty much unprecedented for a Speaker. What he said was:

"What I will say is this. An address by a foreign leader to both House of Parliament is not an automatic right. It is an earned honour. Moreover, there are many precedents for state visits to take place to our country which do not include an address to both Houses of Parliament. That’s the first point.

In relation to Westminster Hall, there are three key holder to Westminster Hall: the speaker of the House of Commons, the speaker of the House of Lords and the lord great chamberlain. Ordinarily we are able to work by consensus and the hall would be used for a purpose such as an address or another purpose by agreement of the three key holders.

I must say to the honourable gentleman, to all who signed his early day motion and to others with strong views about this matter on either side of the argument, that before the imposition of the migrant ban I would myself have been strongly opposed to an address by President Trump in Westminster Hall. After the imposition of the migrant ban by President Trump I am even more strongly opposed to an address by President Trump in Westminster Hall.

So far as the Royal Gallery is concerned, again I operate on advice, I do not perhaps have as strong a say in that matter. It is in a different part of the building [ie, in the House of Lords, not the Commons], although customarily an invitation to a visiting leader to deliver an address there would be issued in the names of the two speakers. I would not wish to issue an invitation to President Trump to speak in the Royal Gallery.

And I conclude by saying to the honourable gentleman this. We value our relationship with the United States. If a state visit takes place, that is way beyond and above the pay grade of the Speaker.

However, as far as this place [the House of Commons] is concerned, I feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons."

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Theo Snelders

[WaffenThinMint]

2 hours ago, Theo Snelders said:

All I'm going to say is that I'm pretty sure John Bercow is very aware of human rights abuses given the horrendous things his family endured at the hands of the Nazis. It's pretty laughable to suggest he'd not be aware of China's abuses and if memory serves there was disquiet amongst many quarters about that state visit.

In entrenched regimes you have to work with them and hope diplomacy helps bring change.

Yep, because that was such a bloody rip roaring success last time around.

I have always regarded it as ironic that the west couldn't wait to jump all over South Africa, Iran, Libya, Cuba, etc every chance they got, but turned a blind eye even after the Communist bloc imploded to China where those who offend the regime are executed on trumped up charges if someone with good connections is in need of a new kidney, heart, lungs, etc.

[Theo Snelders]

Well quite, WTM. Hence standing up to Trump now. The Nazis weren't as entrenched as China is now.

[Cerberus]

Poor excuses. Bercow could have kept his opinion to himself. He is fully play to the gallery to inflate his own self-worth and he is rightly getting rebuked for it.
He also welcomed the Kuwaiti government, where homosexuality is illegal and they have a travel ban on Israelis.

Trade with the US is pivotal with Brexit coming soon. He's stuck his neck out big time and possibly sullied one of the few good relationships that the UK has left.
It'll be interesting to see if he gets chopped. Hopefully he does. He's a egotist and a hypocrite. An utter welt of a man.

[doulikefish]

Poor excuses. Bercow could have kept his opinion to himself. He is fully play to the gallery to inflate his own self-worth and he is rightly getting rebuked for it.
He also welcomed the Kuwaiti government, where homosexuality is illegal and they have a travel ban on Israelis.

Trade with the US is pivotal with Brexit coming soon. He's stuck his neck out big time and possibly sullied one of the few good relationships that the UK has left.
It'll be interesting to see if he gets chopped. Hopefully he does. He's a egotist and a hypocrite. An utter welt of a man.

Any tories going mental at Bercows actions when he made his little speech?
If not then its a nice bit of politiking by them,Trumps coming to visit but something that nobody gives a fuck about looks like its been taken away from him
Anybody actually remember anything that obama or mandela said in there speech in parliament without googling ?

[HTG]

I couldn't give any fucks about Bercow or his motives but I'm glad he did what he did. 

Evidently the decision to allow leaders of states with hellish views on human rights to address parliament is contentious but maybe it was justifiable in seeking to effect change (unlikely but possible).

Trump needs told now that this shite he's coming out with is unacceptable. His latest pack of lies about the media not reporting terrorist attacks is utterly ridiculous. The man is a liability and a threat to the entire planet. Get him to fuck before he really makes a cunt of it

[RiG]

Some truly bizarre claims by Trump that the media under reported terrorist attacks like the one in Paris

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/07/white-house-list-donald-trumps-undereported-terror-list-paris-attacks-berlin-truck-killings

You can tell were he starts going off script around 0:20 in the video until around 0:35 to get his wee "dishonest press" jibe in because he's no longer having to look at his speech.

[Granny Danger]

The question here is what do we expect from world leaders?  Sadly I don't expect the President of China to be a liberal democrat, but I think we have to play our small part in trying to influence what happens in that very important country.

Neither do I expect the US President to be flawless, but I expect him to be something significantly better than the demagogue Trump.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 2017/02/05 at 18:55, Zetterlund said:

Trump says he respects "killer" Putin and suggests the US is just as bad.

"You get a lot of killers".

 

The entry ban is lunatic kneejerk populism, as is the wall with Mexico, but it's difficult to argue with him on the idea that the USA has had a long line of ruthless killers in the Oval office. Richard Nixon and the madman theory of war, dropping the first nuclear bomb on a large Japanese city like Nagasaki rather than on an uninhabited mountain area to demonstrate its power, and the list goes on and on.

[Wee Willie]

12 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

No it's nothing to do with your name.  You're a 'nationalist' in the worst sense of the word.  Small minded and myopic.  If there was a Trump-like character in this country espousing "Scotland First" in the same way that Trump espouses "America First" he would be your hero.

 

How da fuck am I 'small minded and myopic'?
If a Donald Trump or a Nigel Farage or anybody else were able to vote YES to Scottish independence I would welcome them with open arms.
What would you do?
Tell them "Naw, ye cannae vote for independence coz I dinnae like ye"
I always put 'Scotland First' while you're too busy standing up for the downtrodden anywhere outside Scotland where you (and I) have nae say in the matter.
Is that being small minded and myopic?

 

13 hours ago, jmothecat said:

 

A Nationalist nationalist rather than a civic nationalist.

 

WTF does that mean?

11 hours ago, jmothecat said:

 

I can't say I'm overly fond of any sort of nationalism but there is a clear distinction between civic nationalism and the above nationalism expressed by willie. It's also quite clearly possible to be a yes voter but not a nationalist.

 

But you're a Britnat while I'm a Scotnat - does that make me the bad guy?
I suppose you could be a YES voter but no a nationalist but unless it's a referendum you must vote for the SNP to gain independence.
In a way I'm no a nationalist coz as soon as Scotland has independence then I'll be voting for the leftmost party which may not be the SNP.
Voting SNP is a means tae an end.
And it's funny tae think that in an Independent Scotland, GD and I would probably be in the same political party

 

[thisal]

10 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Yep, because that was such a bloody rip roaring success last time around.

 

Chamberlain is very hard done to. There's a very strong case that the "piece of paper" allowed Britain to win the the Battle of Britain. As Britain wasn't ready for war in 1938 and if we had gone to war then Germany would have still taken Europe, but would also have had air superiority and would have been able to invade Britain.  Britain went on a catch up in the arms race after Munich.

[Wee Willie]

23 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The entry ban is lunatic kneejerk populism, as is the wall with Mexico, but it's difficult to argue with him on the idea that the USA has had a long line of ruthless killers in the Oval office. Richard Nixon and the madman theory of war, dropping the first nuclear bomb on a large Japanese city like Nagasaki rather than on an uninhabited mountain area to demonstrate its power, and the list goes on and on.

Hiroshima - The Complete Miniseries Event
https://www.amazon.com/Hiroshima-Complete-Miniseries-Event-Various/dp/B01IDHQYWY
It’s easy to look back 72 years and make decisions on the best way to show the power of an atomic bomb.
Hiroshima is a superb mini series of three episodes starting from the construction of Los Alamos to the surrender of Japan.
The American Cabinet deliberated on how to proceed with the A-bomb.
Some wanted to invite the Japanese to an A-bomb test while others wanted it to be exploded far away from civilian populations as well as other suggestions.
All of these were dismissed on the grounds that the Japanese government would bring in all the American POW into the cities and if a bomb was dropped then the Yanks would be among the first to die.