1320Lichtie Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 It may have to go through SFA and/or SPFL boards (perhaps where this 8 originates?) but it would then have to face SPFL club votes: that's an 11-1 vote of Premiership then 75% of Premiership-&-Championship then 75% of all 42 clubs, IIRC. Good. It'll never happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 So the worrying possibility is that L2 gets shafted as the Colts are dumped there and not allowed promotion and the other 32 vote it through. Sweetners would really only need applied to the teams in L1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Loonytoons said: So the worrying possibility is that L2 gets shafted as the Colts are dumped there and not allowed promotion and the other 32 vote it through. Sweetners would really only need applied to the teams in L1. There would need to be benefits given to all 40 clubs outside Old Firm. Bottom line is they need considerable votes at all levels. If they got 11-1 in SPFL then why would Championship, League 1 & 2 vote for it? Only need 10 teams voting no over the 30 teams to knock it back. I don't see this going through. From a personal St Mirren point of view. The only way I'd back this is if it formed part of a bigger restructure. Bigger top flight of 16/ 18/ 20 otherwise I'd want a no vote and from what I've read most St Mirren fans want a No regardless of situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Who can say for sure. If a couple of Premiership clubs didn't vote against it out of principle or to stop OF becoming stronger, you doubt 5 or 6 Championship clubs would vote against (it would affect them less than anyone). If it got through those 2 votes it could then be approved even if half SPFL1 & SPFL2 clubs (or all SPFL2 clubs) voted against. It's certainly not impossible, put it that way. However, how likely is it all SPFL1 would vote one way 'en bloc' and SPFL2 another. Plenty SPFL1 clubs know they'll go down to SPFL2 sooner or later. It's also possible any "no promotion" commitment could be futile - if OF 'B' teams were denied promotion there'd be clamour to remove it, and it could block proper clubs promotion. Edited December 19, 2016 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Formally-speaking clubs didn't agree to 'B' teams in the Challenge Cup: it's an SPFL Board decision, whereas this would require a club vote... Evidently there was consultation, but there were competing claims on here over 'how many clubs actually wanted it' and 'whether they had to take it or leave it as part of the wider package' etc. etc. They did agree by not raising any objection - the SPFL Board presented proposals re the 2 cups - there were pluses and minuses in the total package but the clubs obviously agreed the pluses outweighed the minuses so the package went through. Clubs could have stopped colts but that wasn't in their best interests overall. They thus accepted the board proposals - not at the point of a gun. Overall a win/win for all the parties involved. That is the same way this latest change would likely have to be packaged to get through - otherwise how will it garner the necessary support? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_j Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Shit idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Loonytoons said: 31 minutes ago, marty_j said: Shit idea. yep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 The news this morning is full of stories about this being a big part of 'project brave'. You'd imagine this would end up with L2 a 12 team league with a split but then again will the colts teams be allowed promotion (or relegation) and how will it affect the highland and lowland playoff system......... lots of questions and very few answers for something that will help the OF and judging by the crowd numbers for colts games in the irn bru cup season, nobody else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 News stories this morning about lowland league clubs saying it's a good idea but they should start at the bottom. Do no clubs from the bottom right to the top engage with their supporters at all? I can count on one hand the number of non old firm fans who have expressed and kind of positive spin on this idea. If anyone from any clubs read this FANS DON'T WANT THE OLD FIRM COLT TEAMS! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Update from Record today: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/celtic-rangers-proposals-leaves-current-9486698 I can see why people are against the Colts joining League 2 but I cant see the issue with them joining a restructured Lowland League or below. You have to consider that there is NO West of Scotland feeder League into the LL. It makes no sense to have the most populated area of Scotland, with the most teams, unrepresented in the Pyramid. Perhaps the Old Firm Colts will be part of a new West of Scotland League or a Lowland League West. That's the only way they will be able to join as the LL is at capacity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeSAFC Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Update from Record today: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/celtic-rangers-proposals-leaves-current-9486698 I can see why people are against the Colts joining League 2 but I cant see the issue with them joining a restructured Lowland League or below. I can see the issue. They arent real clubs, they are glorified under 20's for Scotland's shames. They belong in the u20 league not in the senior set up. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee_62 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm still struggling to get my head round why it's only Rangers and Celtic being considered for any initial entry into the grown up leagues and by that I mean: 1) They don't appear to generate any bigger crowds than any of the other U20s sides (apart from when they play each other) 2) Rangers certainly don't have a claim to getting there based on footballing ability. 3) Over the last few years, neither team would appear to be delivering huge numbers of youth players through their current set ups into their first team. Going forward, I don't suddenly see either of those teams stopping their current transfer policies of bringing in players performing well at other clubs either at home or cheap foreign imports. As others have commented, any stunningly good youngsters would surely be moved straight into their 1st team squads without going through the U20 route, leaving those squads choc full of average Joes, who could actually fare better by going out on loan to Championship, League 1 or League 2 team. If they're not allowed promotion, would any points won against them count for the other teams, if not, would any team fancy risking their best players in those matches? Also, if you've got a League game against the 'B' team one week and a cup game against the senior side the next - the possibility of having your best players injured by some nutcase youngster thinking he's doing the "right thing" must surely be a risk. One thing is fairly clear and that's that this is extremely unlikely to benefit Scottish Football / the International team and will surely only be a benefit to Celtic and Rangers themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, edinabear said: I can see why people are against the Colts joining League 2 but I cant see the issue with them joining a restructured Lowland League or below. You have to consider that there is NO West of Scotland feeder League into the LL. It makes no sense to have the most populated area of Scotland, with the most teams, unrepresented in the Pyramid. Some of the issues are aired in that piece. LL isn't bottom of the pyramid and has no vacancies. Officially the South of Scotland League is the feeder - although it's now lost its presence in Lanarkshire and Ayrshire, granted. LL clubs and some below have invested in ground improvements and licences, formed a new league which has reached its full complement of 16, and aspire to reaching SPFL2. All of those aspects could be circumvented, undermined or made more difficult by OF 'B' teams. Also they'd clearly pursue promotion - although Warburton said yesterday he wouldn't want to play below SPFL2 at all - in which case they still arrive in SPFL2, just in X years time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 11 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Some of the issues are aired in that piece. LL isn't bottom of the pyramid and has no vacancies. Officially the South of Scotland League is the feeder - although it's now lost its presence in Lanarkshire and Ayrshire, granted. LL clubs and some below have invested in ground improvements and licences, formed a new league which has reached its full complement of 16, and aspire to reaching SPFL2. All of those aspects could be circumvented, undermined or made more difficult by OF 'B' teams. Also they'd clearly pursue promotion - although Warburton said yesterday he wouldn't want to play below SPFL2 at all - in which case they still arrive in SPFL2, just in X years time. I agree with a lot of what you say. My point is that any potential negatives that could occur with the Colts could be lessened as part of an overall restructure of the Lowland League down. Take the existing Junior Pyramid as a guide and work the SofS and EofS into that. Same with the Highland League and North Juniors Within that structure there is definite space for 5-6 Colt teams to play without negatively impacting the league. I would also be for limitations on overage players and how far up the leagues the colts teams can go. If I have the time over xmas I'll put it all together on a spreadsheet to show what I mean! Also, I know we've discussed this before, but Tier 6 of the Pyramid currently has a 'B' team in Stirling Uni and has had Hibs B a few years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Given that age is a factor here, what if you have a very good crop of players that gets the Colt team easily promoted but they are ineligible to play the next season and the next influx are crap and are just cannon fodder for the higher league. How is that meant to help either of those groups of players to develop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenConvert Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 30 minutes ago, Loonytoons said: Given that age is a factor here, what if you have a very good crop of players that gets the Colt team easily promoted but they are ineligible to play the next season and the next influx are crap and are just cannon fodder for the higher league. How is that meant to help either of those groups of players to develop. The only way to save Scottish football is to allow promotion but not relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I wish the Old Firm c***s were in League Two... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenConvert Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 38 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: I wish the Old Firm c***s were in League Two... Aberdeen would still find a way to bottle the league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeSAFC Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I wish the Old Firm c***s were in League Two... One of them was a few years ago, good times and some good memories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The discussion from said old firm fans supporting this idea just shows you how out of touch they are with the rest of Scottish football So wit if we have b teams who is gonnae be bothered the 3 hunner ppl that watch Elgin lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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