Old Firm Colts in L2

[The Minertaur]

Perhaps if Celtic and Rangers stopped signing all the best young talent from rivals to sit on the bench 90% of the time we might actually be able to improve our national team as players get valuable game time at the top level

Nah let's give these talented youngsters a game against Cowdenbeath - that's just as effective.

[The Minertaur]

1 hour ago, Tartantony said:

Don't go down the road of getting all offended because I support one of the OF Lichtie. My opinion has nothing to do with who I support. Why should the 12 to 20 biggest clubs in the Country be held to ransom by 20 absolute nobodies who offer nothing to Scottish football?

I didn't say that colt teams would work in the current system, I said that its worth giving it a go because it works in other Country's.

I think it would work in a 2 league set up which didn't include most of the current L1 and L2 teams because the colt teams would then be playing against a much higher standard which would develop players better.

What amazing logic.  So when this half arsed attempt at revitalising Scottish football fails what should we try next?  The Belgian league set up? Or should we go back to copying England?

[dee_62]

3 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

If all of the top 22 clubs vote in favour of a change it would only take 11 of the 20 lower league clubs to vote against it that's why.

Let me put it in another way.

Lets say me and you start a business. You put in £95,000 and I put in £5,000. You then go away and generate 95% of the Companies revenue and I generate 5%. I want half the shares and voting rights and the final say on any decisions to take the Company forward. Would you be happy with that?

Not a great example though, this isn't a start up, is it?  This structure is in place already so you'd know ahead of investment and generating revenue what the voting rights look like.

Your point goes against the whole collective bargaining system that many of the "richer" clubs are baulking at.  To follow on with your thoughts - what happens when we get down to your top 22 and the big boys get fed up of that set up too.  We then get to a top 18, then maybe it's a top 12 or 10.  Before you know it, we're either left with Franchise Celtic playing Franchise Rangers every week, in different countries, in front of the Sky cameras or the "big 2" decide to move to a European Leauge.  While Aberdeen are left winning the Highland league, Hearts are winning the East of Scotland League, Partick the West and Killie the South of Scotland League.

[SilverWolfe]

4 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

Perhaps if Celtic and Rangers stopped signing all the best young talent from rivals to sit on the bench 90% of the time we might actually be able to improve our national team as players get valuable game time at the top level

Nah let's give these talented youngsters a game against Cowdenbeath - that's just as effective.

Not this argument again. Its not Celtics fault if a young player doesn't have the correct attitude and belief in himself to make the first team. I'm pretty sure if these players were actually good enough or wanted to be good enough then they would be in our first 11 as has been shown by certain players throughout the years.

[The Minertaur]

Just now, Tartantony said:

Not this argument again. Its not Celtics fault if a young player doesn't have the correct attitude and belief in himself to make the first team. I'm pretty sure if these players were actually good enough or wanted to be good enough then they would be in our first 11 as has been shown by certain players throughout the years.

So signings players who aren't good enough for you? 

The Colts idea is pish - can you actually explain the benefits to Celtic and Rangers of having their youth players play in the lower leagues? Then explain what the benefit will be to the rest of Scottish football? 

[CowdenConvert]

Tony is obviously fed up with being ripped to bits on the dundee match thread so thought he'd come down here for a bit of sport.

like all celtic supporters he's a c**t that cares not a jot about whats best for Scottish football and only about beating rangers.

Edited December 22, 2016 by CowdenConvert

[SilverWolfe]

3 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

Not a great example though, this isn't a start up, is it?  This structure is in place already so you'd know ahead of investment and generating revenue what the voting rights look like.

Your point goes against the whole collective bargaining system that many of the "richer" clubs are baulking at.  To follow on with your thoughts - what happens when we get down to your top 22 and the big boys get fed up of that set up too.  We then get to a top 18, then maybe it's a top 12 or 10.  Before you know it, we're either left with Franchise Celtic playing Franchise Rangers every week, in different countries, in front of the Sky cameras or the "big 2" decide to move to a European Leauge.  While Aberdeen are left winning the Highland league, Hearts are winning the East of Scotland League, Partick the West and Killie the South of Scotland League.

Doesn't matter if its a start up or not, take my example and imagine its been running for 5 years. The point still stands that the minor shareholders (in terms of generating revenue and contributing) are able to have an equal say on what is good for Scottish football. What we all do know about Scottish football is that the 42 shareholders only care about themselves. A TV company could in theory come to the SPFL and say that they will give us a £5bn contract if we restructured and went to 30 clubs. I can guarantee you that the other 12 that would miss out would veto that deal because they lose out. Not one of them would even consider what was good for the game, they would act in self interest and vote no.

I think you got a bit carried away with your second paragraph.I don't think the number needs to be 22 exactly. Id be happy with anything from 28 to 32 teams. I am a massive fan of the Portuguese set up and given that they are quite similar to us in terms of population category in European terms, attendances, big clubs dominating over every other team, I would look to them as a good example of how 2 leagues work with 5 colt teams.

[JakeSAFC]

Not this argument again. Its not Celtics fault if a young player doesn't have the correct attitude and belief in himself to make the first team. I'm pretty sure if these players were actually good enough or wanted to be good enough then they would be in our first 11 as has been shown by certain players throughout the years.

So if they dont have the right attitude or belief what makes you think they'll become a star playing for a colt team?

You really are an absolute roaster.

[SilverWolfe]

7 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

So signings players who aren't good enough for you? 

The Colts idea is pish - can you actually explain the benefits to Celtic and Rangers of having their youth players play in the lower leagues? Then explain what the benefit will be to the rest of Scottish football? 

We sign players who we think are going to be good enough or are already good enough. If they don't apply themselves that's their fault not ours.

I haven't said anywhere that having a colt team in the lower leagues of the current system would be beneficial to Celtic or Rangers or Scottish Football. I have no idea if it would be or not but would be open to trying it out

[SilverWolfe]

1 minute ago, JakeSAFC said:

 

 

So if they dont have the right attitude or belief what makes you think they'll become a star playing for a colt team?

You really are an absolute roaster.

 

Are you just reading what you want to. I literally have not said that anywhere

[Cowden Cowboy]

So signings players who aren't good enough for you? 
The Colts idea is pish - can you actually explain the benefits to Celtic and Rangers of having their youth players play in the lower leagues? Then explain what the benefit will be to the rest of Scottish football? 

The benefit to Rangers and Celtic would be obvious - in that they play in a professional competitive environment not against the same cosseted kids they have played against for years. What the reserve league used to provide but probably more competitive. The benefits for the rest of Scottish football are arguable and will form part of the sell - then it is largely a matter of opinion or point of view. Presumably Rangers and Celtic as the clubs involved would be underpinning directly or indirectly any financial arrangement that could see this introduced.

On the subject of voting power favouring the smaller clubs that is nonsense as the voting structure is weighted in favour of the bigger clubs given the higher the League you are in the greater your voting power - that is subject to checks and balances to prevent big or small clubs having the ability to impose their will on the other party. Not perfect by any means but a reasonable arrangement which helped get agreement to the SPFL being introduced.

[JakeSAFC]

Are you just reading what you want to. I literally have not said that anywhere

Its getting quite hard to read what you're writing considering the amount of shite you are slabbering.

[The Minertaur]

2 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

We sign players who we think are going to be good enough or are already good enough. If they don't apply themselves that's their fault not ours.

I haven't said anywhere that having a colt team in the lower leagues of the current system would be beneficial to Celtic or Rangers or Scottish Football. I have no idea if it would be or not but would be open to trying it out

This is the point - if there is no actual clear benefits to anybody why should us lower league sides just accept it or be in favour it when we have the most to lose?  Perhaps there will be more money available for us but then players know this and can ask for higher wages etc.

If the SPFL had taken their time and come up with a proposal with clear benefits for the national game then I'm sure there would be a lot more in favour.  Instead we're handed the Old Firm colts teams which has been discussed for a few years.  It's embarrassing that this is the best we can come up.

[CowdenConvert]

5 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

The benefit to Rangers and Celtic would be obvious - in that they play in a professional competitive environment not against the same cosseted kids they have played against for years. What the reserve league used to provide but probably more competitive. The benefits for the rest of Scottish football are arguable and will form part of the sell - then it is largely a matter of opinion or point of view. Presumably Rangers and Celtic as the clubs involved would be underpinning directly or indirectly any financial arrangement that could see this introduced.

On the subject of voting power favouring the smaller clubs that is nonsense as the voting structure is weighted in favour of the bigger clubs given the higher the League you are in the greater your voting power - that is subject to checks and balances to prevent big or small clubs having the ability to impose their will on the other party. Not perfect by any means but a reasonable arrangement which helped get agreement to the SPFL being introduced.

If we're pinning our hopes on rangers underpinning something financially we may as well pack it in now.

[SilverWolfe]

Its getting quite hard to read what you're writing considering the amount of shite you are slabbering.

You're a complete mess because a Celtic fan thinks your shite club is an irrelevance which it is

[SilverWolfe]

I only came here to see the utter rage an OF fan can cause to the mob. It's been quite delightful, I'll get back to the forums that are relevant now.

Cheery bye now [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Tartantony said:

Don't go down the road of getting all offended because I support one of the OF Lichtie. My opinion has nothing to do with who I support. Why should the 12 to 20 biggest clubs in the Country be held to ransom by 20 absolute nobodies who offer nothing to Scottish football?

I didn't say that colt teams would work in the current system, I said that its worth giving it a go because it works in other Country's.

I think it would work in a 2 league set up which didn't include most of the current L1 and L2 teams because the colt teams would then be playing against a much higher standard which would develop players better.

[JakeSAFC]

You're a complete mess because a Celtic fan thinks your shite club is an irrelevance which it is

That much of an irrelevance youve come onto a League 2 forum.

You, just like the rest of your sub human support, are so ill informed its actually quite funny. Believe it or not theres more to Scottish football than Celtic and Rangers.

[Jan Vojáček]

 

37 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

TartanTony doing a masterful job of ignoring the fact he's got no evidence to back up the 'fact' that B teams will have us on the way to international tournaments in a jiffy.

If it's a choice of sacrificing club football for international football (which would, remember, still require proof that this will help us emulate Wales and Northern Ireland) then I doubt any sane person would support it. I care very, very little about the national team, and I doubt I'm the only one.

 

5 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

I only came here to see the utter rage an OF fan can cause to the mob. It's been quite delightful, I'll get back to the forums that are relevant now.

Cheery bye now

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Randy Giles said:

 

 

I'm not seeing you make a single argument on what makes it better. Plenty of people have made solid arguments to the negatives and your own argument against is "something new blah blah diddies" which I suppose is to be expected from both sides of the OF thickos on here, but why don't you try and actual argument to how it benefits Scottish football?

 

"Blah, blah diddies,

Something new, something new

Blah, blah diddies,

Something new, something new"

To the tune of Manfred Mann's classic Do Wah Diddy