Old Firm Colts in L2

[JakeSAFC]

Not surprised to see all the diddies are against this idea. Colt teams work in other Countries and its certainly worth giving it a try.
What is utterly ridiculous is that League 1 and League 2 clubs have almost a 50% say in what happens to Scottish Football as a whole.
If my understanding is correct the minimum votes to pass a special resolution would be as follows;
11 Premiership (>90%)
6 Championship (>75% of Prem/Cham)
15 League 1/ League 2 (>75% of ALL)
No special resolution can be passed if 11 of these 20 nothing clubs don't vote for it and in worst case scenario it would only take 6 of these 20 clubs to stop something from changing.
Get rid of most of these jobbers and go to a 32 team set up with 5 colt teams and we might start getting somewhere.

Tartontony showing that Old Firm fans are brain dead arseholes.

I agree maybe we should have a 32 team set up and the first clubs to be booted out the leagues should be Celtic and Rangers.

[SilverWolfe]

8 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Get fucked you c**t

Just because you've got more fans than the rest of the clubs put together doesn't mean you should be able to run the game

You've got most of they fans because you do run the game, get the most attention and success which leads to glory hunters from all over the country travelling to your middens

What evidence is there that these work? And why do you think 20 year olds playing in league 2 will help make them future internationals???????

Don't go down the road of getting all offended because I support one of the OF Lichtie. My opinion has nothing to do with who I support. Why should the 12 to 20 biggest clubs in the Country be held to ransom by 20 absolute nobodies who offer nothing to Scottish football?

I didn't say that colt teams would work in the current system, I said that its worth giving it a go because it works in other Country's.

I think it would work in a 2 league set up which didn't include most of the current L1 and L2 teams because the colt teams would then be playing against a much higher standard which would develop players better.

[JakeSAFC]

So are you suggesting that League 1 and 2 clubs should be thrown out to keep your scummy club along with your sister happy.

Get tae f**k.

[SilverWolfe]

9 minutes ago, JakeSAFC said:

So are you suggesting that League 1 and 2 clubs should be thrown out to keep your scummy club along with your sister happy.

Get tae f**k.

Where did I say that exactly?

Stop acting like a diddy and forget about me being an OF fan. My opinion has nothing to do with me being a Celtic fan its based on what's best for Scottish football in the future. And 20 diddy clubs like yours are a waste of space, get them to f**k into a regional set up where they belong

[David W]

Where is the evidence that it works in other countries?

[Ira Gaines]

Where did I say that exactly?
Stop acting like a diddy and forget about me being an OF fan. My opinion has nothing to do with me being a Celtic fan its based on what's best for Scottish football in the future. And 20 diddy clubs like yours are a waste of space, get them to f**k into a regional set up where they belong

I'm not seeing you make a single argument on what makes it better. Plenty of people have made solid arguments to the negatives and your own argument against is "something new blah blah diddies" which I suppose is to be expected from both sides of the OF thickos on here, but why don't you try and actual argument to how it benefits Scottish football?

[CityDave]

23 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

Don't go down the road of getting all offended because I support one of the OF Lichtie. My opinion has nothing to do with who I support. Why should the 12 to 20 biggest clubs in the Country be held to ransom by 20 absolute nobodies who offer nothing to Scottish football?

I didn't say that colt teams would work in the current system, I said that its worth giving it a go because it works in other Country's.

I think it would work in a 2 league set up which didn't include most of the current L1 and L2 teams because the colt teams would then be playing against a much higher standard which would develop players better.

Why do only the top clubs in Scotland offer something to Scottish football and every other club below else doesn't? Are you wanting the return of the SPL?

When have the smaller clubs held Scottish football to ransom? Isn't that what Celtic and Rangers have done for decades?

Scottish league football should be run like a democracy where everyone has a say, this is why the SPFL exists. One governing league body over our top clubs.

A huge part of the part of the problem in this country is the lack of investment in grass roots football. If we neglect from lower league downwards into the semi pro  and amateur levels it would restrict and discourage people from taking up the game or continuing in the game, our football suffers. Its not all about the top clubs.

Edited December 22, 2016 by CityDave

[dee_62]

44 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

Don't go down the road of getting all offended because I support one of the OF Lichtie. My opinion has nothing to do with who I support. Why should the 12 to 20 biggest clubs in the Country be held to ransom by 20 absolute nobodies who offer nothing to Scottish football?

I didn't say that colt teams would work in the current system, I said that its worth giving it a go because it works in other Country's.

I think it would work in a 2 league set up which didn't include most of the current L1 and L2 teams because the colt teams would then be playing against a much higher standard which would develop players better.

Good fishing trip...I'll bite.

I think part of the problem is it's not 12-20 of the biggest clubs being held to ransom - it's 2 clubs apparently and why should it be Celtic and Rangers that are allowed to put their youngsters in the league?  What gives them the right to dictate that their preferences are "what is best for Scottish Football"

Also, these "diddy" clubs that you mention, serve the local communities in the form of local community coaching sessions, men/women's fitness events, organise sessions using football memories as a stimulus to help those suffering from forms of Dementia in addition to offering their facilities for local groups at little/no cost. Much of the funding will come from grants because the clubs are part of the SPFL set up.

The perception from many (myself included) is that....Where were your concerns on the future of Scottish Football when you were looking to go to an Atlantic League or down to England?  The future of Scottish football deserves to be put in the hands of those who actually care about it and will be in it for the long run and not at the whim of two clubs/companies who would leave, in a heartbeat, if the money was right.

Edited December 22, 2016 by dee_62

[HibeeJibee]

17 minutes ago, David W said:

Where is the evidence that it works in other countries?

Fair question.

Obviously there are successful nations - often cited - who have 'B' teams. However there are also successful nations without them, and nations with them who are poor.

EDIT: Incidentally a Celtic fan moping about the voting system is quite outrageous hypocrisy given they'd fought tooth-n-nail for 20yrs to retain the SPL's 11-1 voting system in order to block anything they don't like, even if 10 out of 12 (now 40 out of 42) clubs wanted it. Shameless.

Edited December 22, 2016 by HibeeJibee

[JakeSAFC]

Where did I say that exactly?
Stop acting like a diddy and forget about me being an OF fan. My opinion has nothing to do with me being a Celtic fan its based on what's best for Scottish football in the future. And 20 diddy clubs like yours are a waste of space, get them to f**k into a regional set up where they belong

The only clubs holding back Scottish football are the old firm.

How are we in any way holding back the top 12-20 clubs?

How are we a waste of space? We have loyal fans just like the "big clubs" who support the Albion through thick and thin. Why should we lose our club to development sides to keep the Old Firm happy.

I knew you Old Firm supporters were thickos, but jeezo you win the award for being the biggest idiot on here.

[Jan Vojáček]

46 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

Not surprised to see all the diddies are against this idea. Colt teams work in other Countries and its certainly worth giving it a try.

What is utterly ridiculous is that League 1 and League 2 clubs have almost a 50% say in what happens to Scottish Football as a whole.

If my understanding is correct the minimum votes to pass a special resolution would be as follows;

11 Premiership (>90%)

6 Championship (>75% of Prem/Cham)

15 League 1/ League 2 (>75% of ALL)

No special resolution can be passed if 11 of these 20 nothing clubs don't vote for it and in worst case scenario it would only take 6 of these 20 clubs to stop something from changing.

Get rid of most of these jobbers and go to a 32 team set up with 5 colt teams and we might start getting somewhere.

Can you provide proof of that please? I've heard that spouted a lot, but I've yet to see any evidence. Do they use B teams in Wales?

The rest of your post is traditionally ill-informed Old Firm rambling. If your clubs cared that much about developing youths then you'd play them and not shell out £££s on overseas jobbers.

[haufdaft]

Not surprised to see all the diddies are against this idea. Colt teams work in other Countries and its certainly worth giving it a try.
What is utterly ridiculous is that League 1 and League 2 clubs have almost a 50% say in what happens to Scottish Football as a whole.
If my understanding is correct the minimum votes to pass a special resolution would be as follows;
11 Premiership (>90%)
6 Championship (>75% of Prem/Cham)
15 League 1/ League 2 (>75% of ALL)
No special resolution can be passed if 11 of these 20 nothing clubs don't vote for it and in worst case scenario it would only take 6 of these 20 clubs to stop something from changing.
Get rid of most of these jobbers and go to a 32 team set up with 5 colt teams and we might start getting somewhere.

Would you go and pay £13 to watch your team playing against U20s?

[SilverWolfe]

17 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

Good fishing trip...I'll bite.

I think part of the problem is it's not 12-20 of the biggest clubs being held to ransom - it's 2 clubs apparently and why should it be Celtic and Rangers that are allowed to put their youngsters in the league?  What gives them the right to dictate that their preferences are "what is best for Scottish Football"

Also, these "diddy" clubs that you mention, serve the local communities in the form of local community coaching sessions, men/women's fitness events, orgainse sessions using football memories as a stimulus to help those suffering from forms of Dementia in addition to offering their facilities for local groups at little/no cost.

The perception from many (myself included) is that....Where were your concerns on the future of Scottish Football when you were looking to go to an Atlantic League or down to England?  The future of Scottish football deserves to be put in the hands of those who actually care about it and will be in it for the long run and not at the whim of two clubs/companies who would leave if the money was right.

That's the key word here "apparently". No one knows yet which clubs may be included in a proposal. We went from one extreme in the SPL where the OF had all the power due to the 11/1 voting structure to the complete other where the bigger clubs can now be out voted by 20 clubs who's fan base is less than the average attendance of Dundee. These 20 clubs make up about 5% max of the Scottish football fan base yet have almost half of the power, that is ridiculous whether you like it or not. There can be a happy medium which would take away the OF holding everyone to ransom and the current system which hampers the top 22 teams.  

There is no reason why the "diddy" clubs cannot still serve their communities while playing in a regional league as part of a better overall pyramid structure. Nothing would change in that regard.

As for the last bit, I have no interest in going to England or an Atlantic League. I've already said my opinion is not based in being a Celtic fan, its based on being a fan of Scottish football.

[CityDave]

10 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

That's the key word here "apparently". No one knows yet which clubs may be included in a proposal. We went from one extreme in the SPL where the OF had all the power due to the 11/1 voting structure to the complete other where the bigger clubs can now be out voted by 20 clubs who's fan base is less than the average attendance of Dundee. These 20 clubs make up about 5% max of the Scottish football fan base yet have almost half of the power, that is ridiculous whether you like it or not. There can be a happy medium which would take away the OF holding everyone to ransom and the current system which hampers the top 22 teams.  

There is no reason why the "diddy" clubs cannot still serve their communities while playing in a regional league as part of a better overall pyramid structure. Nothing would change in that regard.

As for the last bit, I have no interest in going to England or an Atlantic League. I've already said my opinion is not based in being a Celtic fan, its based on being a fan of Scottish football.

In what way does the current system hamper the top 22 clubs?

[JakeSAFC]

There is no reason why the "diddy" clubs cannot still serve their communities while playing in a regional league as part of a better overall pyramid structure. Nothing would change in that regard.

Why should we play in a regional structure when we can afford to play in a National structure and have just as much right to playing in a National structure as the big clubs do.

[SilverWolfe]

1 minute ago, CityDave said:

In what way does the current system hamper the top 22 clubs?

If all of the top 22 clubs vote in favour of a change it would only take 11 of the 20 lower league clubs to vote against it that's why.

Let me put it in another way.

Lets say me and you start a business. You put in £95,000 and I put in £5,000. You then go away and generate 95% of the Companies revenue and I generate 5%. I want half the shares and voting rights and the final say on any decisions to take the Company forward. Would you be happy with that?

[JakeSAFC]

If all of the top 22 clubs vote in favour of a change it would only take 11 of the 20 lower league clubs to vote against it that's why.

The lower league clubs would only vote against something if it was going to effect them.

So what you're basically saying is the bigger clubs should be allowed to shaft the wee clubs?

[dee_62]

27 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

Also, these "diddy" clubs that you mention, serve the local communities in the form of local community coaching sessions, men/women's fitness events, organise sessions using football memories as a stimulus to help those suffering from forms of Dementia in addition to offering their facilities for local groups at little/no cost. Much of the funding will come from grants because the clubs are part of the SPFL set up.

 

2 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

That's the key word here "apparently". No one knows yet which clubs may be included in a proposal. We went from one extreme in the SPL where the OF had all the power due to the 11/1 voting structure to the complete other where the bigger clubs can now be out voted by 20 clubs who's fan base is less than the average attendance of Dundee. These 20 clubs make up about 5% max of the Scottish football fan base yet have almost half of the power, that is ridiculous whether you like it or not. There can be a happy medium which would take away the OF holding everyone to ransom and the current system which hampers the top 22 teams.  

There is no reason why the "diddy" clubs cannot still serve their communities while playing in a regional league as part of a better overall pyramid structure. Nothing would change in that regard.

As for the last bit, I have no interest in going to England or an Atlantic League. I've already said my opinion is not based in being a Celtic fan, its based on being a fan of Scottish football.

I'd edited the content to clarify before you posted that reply - funding would probably change if the diddies are out of the SPFL set up.

I'm also still not convinced that the current system does hamper the top 22 teams - that's never been explained to me.  If you're saying that by getting rid of the bottom two tiers into some kind of regional set up and replacing them with a limited amount of U20s teams, that this would allow the top 22 teams to prosper and bring untold glory to Scottish Football, I'd suggest you might be talking pish. 

As has been discussed earlier in the thread if you've read it - there are many other ways to improve Scottish football - including improving the quantity and quality of coaches from grass roots upwards.

[David W]

17 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

That's the key word here "apparently". No one knows yet which clubs may be included in a proposal. We went from one extreme in the SPL where the OF had all the power due to the 11/1 voting structure to the complete other where the bigger clubs can now be out voted by 20 clubs who's fan base is less than the average attendance of Dundee. These 20 clubs make up about 5% max of the Scottish football fan base yet have almost half of the power, that is ridiculous whether you like it or not. There can be a happy medium which would take away the OF holding everyone to ransom and the current system which hampers the top 22 teams.  

There is no reason why the "diddy" clubs cannot still serve their communities while playing in a regional league as part of a better overall pyramid structure. Nothing would change in that regard.

As for the last bit, I have no interest in going to England or an Atlantic League. I've already said my opinion is not based in being a Celtic fan, its based on being a fan of Scottish football.

Where your argument falls down is that within living memory, two fifths of the current bottom division have been part of that "top 22". And another was a playoff away. There are a number of teams in the top two divisions who have slummed it down here. 

 

 

[Jan Vojáček]

TartanTony doing a masterful job of ignoring the fact he's got no evidence to back up the 'fact' that B teams will have us on the way to international tournaments in a jiffy.

If it's a choice of sacrificing club football for international football (which would, remember, still require proof that this will help us emulate Wales and Northern Ireland) then I doubt any sane person would support it. I care very, very little about the national team, and I doubt I'm the only one.