New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Sauchie, Oakley, St Andrews, Dundonald, Newtongrange, Lithgae, Bo'ness, Broxburn and Jeanfield are the ones that put in applications after Dunbar, Arniston, Craigroyson and Penicuik.

Broxburn? ERJFA's Presidents club, wow.   Jeanfield an interesting one.

[LongTimeLurker]

The word from Bo'ness United supporters on this is that Bo'ness found out that Newtongrange were leaving when they arrived to play them about 10 days back. After a series of phonecalls the committees of Bo'ness, Lithgae and Broxburn all decided it was time to leave and had the meetings required to ratify the applications. Lithgae's was the last meeting to be held on that yesterday. Jeanfield stated they were keen to keep playing at a superleague sort of standard rather than what they would get in a Tayside format.

[HibeeJibee]

2 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

That only works if they fix the cup draws, which seems unlikely.

Otherwise, if club A draw club B ( from a different conference) in round 1, there's only a 1 in 13 chance that they'll share a free league weekend. And even if they do it could be late in the season. Not much help really.

Only if the league fixtures were themselves randomly drawn, which they aren't. (Doing so would be impossible anyway due to groundshares, floodlights, midweek travel distances, derby cards, etc.).

Several seasons ago the EOS Qualifying League consisted of 4 sections of 5 clubs each, and the 4 "odd" teams played 2 league fixtures each time, which is basically the same suggestion but in reverse.

Edited June 5, 2018 by HibeeJibee

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, gwd440 said:

 The Scottish non-league sides are still in the process of closing the gap between league and non-league. But the pyramid still works, because the mechanism for promotion/relegation is there.

I disagree. Playing 4 one off games with the last leg at team 42's home ground is a fucking fix for team 42. It should be decided on a season's performance, not a weighted lottery. The situation in England where a team can come 6th, beat team 3 and get promoted is nearly as unfair.

[Nimmo's Notes]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I disagree. Playing 4 one off games with the last leg at team 42's home ground is a fucking fix for team 42. It should be decided on a season's performance, not a weighted lottery. The situation in England where a team can come 6th, beat team 3 and get promoted is nearly as unfair.

Play offs in Scotland were particularly unfortunate for Raith Rovers and Peterhead. Both teams missed out on league titles at the death, yet were beaten in the play offs by teams who were way below them. Can be a bit of a lottery really. 

If you look at the 3 occasions where the Scottish League side has survived, Montrose came from behind late in the game against 10 man Brora, Cowdenbeath scraped past East Kilbride on penalties, then came from a first half deficit to edge out Cove. All could have ended differently. 

[heedthebaa]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't actually,  being in another Continent and having you mobile phone "re-allocated" to a new owner isn't a good combination for keeping track of what's going on.

^^^^^ been to Auchinleck camping imo

 

 

 

 

welcome back, yiv missed it awe 

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

^^^^^ been to Auchinleck camping imo

 

 

 

 

welcome back, yiv missed it awe 

I said another Continent, not another World

[Deanburn Dave]

14 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

^^^^^ been to Auchinleck camping imo

welcome back, yiv missed it awe 

Let's be honest and say Auchinleck FEELS like another continent................in another century.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

That only works if they fix the cup draws, which seems unlikely.

Otherwise, if club A draw club B ( from a different conference) in round 1, there's only a 1 in 13 chance that they'll share a free league weekend. And even if they do it could be late in the season. Not much help really.

HibeeJibee has basically answered this. What I believe to be the League Cup will probably have it's first round drawn with the league fixtures still to be drawn up, you fit cup opponents into what would otherwise be a bye. Admittedly this would likely only cover the first 12-13 round of league games. Clubs can probably also try and organise other cup ties involving other leagues into a later bye week they have.

On the basic premise of fixing cup draws, it happens all the time. Doesn't matter if you call it seeding,  predetermined byes or regionalisation. Setting things up to ensure one conference plays another, especially in the first round will be no different.

[Ginaro]

Going to be seven teams in the Scottish Cup as well, so their idle dates could be scheduled to coincide with PR2/R1

Edited June 5, 2018 by Ginaro

[HTG]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

What have I missed?

Can someone provide the final list of clubs moving please.

Yoo hoo - hullo there! ⚘⚘

[HibeeJibee]

11 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Going to be seven teams in the Scottish Cup as well, so their idle dates could be scheduled to coincide with PR2/R1

Alex Jack Cup runs alongside on Scottish Cup dates, remember.

[lithgierose]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

What have I missed?

Can someone provide the final list of clubs moving please.

Tom johnston might oblige.

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, HTG said:

Yoo hoo - hullo there! ⚘⚘

[heedthebaa]

10 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Tom johnston might oblige.

I thought his lack of posts recently were due to TJ finding him 

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, gwd440 said:

I don't think it's time for automatic promotion/relegation yet.  

When promotion was granted to non-league teams in England, there were at least a dozen sides that were more than capable of stepping up, and most promoted sides went on to gain another promotion within 2 or 3 years.

In Scotland, only 1 out of 4 non-league sides has proved to be better than Team 42 so far.  As the Lowland League becomes stronger in the next few years and HL/LL teams start to win the play offs, then they can justifiably claim for an automatic place.

 The Scottish non-league sides are still in the process of closing the gap between league and non-league. But the pyramid still works, because the mechanism for promotion/relegation is there.

A reasonable argument I agree.......however the play-off system is loaded against the HFL/SLL champions insofar as they have to play a 2 legged semi-final,  before playing club 42 in the SPFL.Twice as many play offs after a long season. 

Also in England, there isn't  a relegation playoff system. If you are in the designated relegation positions, you are relegated. There is no chance of a reprieve, by playing 2  play off games against the winning play off club from the tier below.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, Robert James said:

A reasonable argument I agree.......however the play-off system is loaded against the HFL/SLL champions insofar as they have to play a 2 legged semi-final,  before playing club 42 in the SPFL.Twice as many play offs after a long season. 

Also in England, there isn't  a relegation playoff system. If you are in the designated relegation positions, you are relegated. There is no chance of a reprieve, by playing 2  play off games against the winning play off club from the tier below.

In the English pyramid the National non-league (Alliance/Conference/National League) was formed in 1979, they didn't get automatic promotion until the 1986-87 season. Things take time to evolve.

The current system we have between the SPFL/HL/LL might give the advantage to the SPFL, but plenty of examples exist in playoff situations where the underdog can win. The next HL/LL champion gets promoted that makes it 2/5, which doesn't look too bad from such a small sample size.

A simple solution to bring some fairness to what we have without completely tearing it up would be for the HL/LL winner to get home field advantage in the 2nd leg.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

Alex Jack Cup runs alongside on Scottish Cup dates, remember.

 

[cmontheloknow]

12 hours ago, Marten said:

All teams other than Blackburn pulled out and joined TJ's Superduper league instead.

The SJFA put the finishing touches to their 'South of Aberdeen' Super League:

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

15 hours ago, gwd440 said:

I don't think it's time for automatic promotion/relegation yet.  

When promotion was granted to non-league teams in England, there were at least a dozen sides that were more than capable of stepping up, and most promoted sides went on to gain another promotion within 2 or 3 years.

In Scotland, only 1 out of 4 non-league sides has proved to be better than Team 42 so far.  As the Lowland League becomes stronger in the next few years and HL/LL teams start to win the play offs, then they can justifiably claim for an automatic place.

 The Scottish non-league sides are still in the process of closing the gap between league and non-league. But the pyramid still works, because the mechanism for promotion/relegation is there.

I'd argue the main reason for the English league allocating one direct relegation (and then adding a second about a decade or so back) was less to do with the quality of the conference and more to do with the difficulty of clubs returning. When it was the original dross who went down they weren't missed but when clubs like Grimsby, Stockport, Wrexham, Cambridge, etc. started dropping down and finding it difficult to return that's when the League 2 clubs realised if they went down they could spend years down there.

With no offence meant to East Stirling, Elgin, Montrose or Berwick they've spent most of the last decade milling around the bottom half of the bottom league. When a coupla teams like Arbroath, Brechin, Stranraer or Alloa find themselves relegated, or regularly close to it over a period of time, the fear of being trapped in the Lowland/Highland league will see promotion/relegation opened up.