"The ICT Thread - From the Premiership to the Seaside"

[PB1994]

40 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm no expert on ICT football, all I know is he's still on the payroll and his final settlement is likely considered a footballing debt.

I heard last month was his the pay cheque but no idea how true that is.

[Spyro]

3 minutes ago, RiG said:

I don't know. Clark and other local journalists were happy to go along with the everything is fine approach a few weeks back when the tide had long since turned against Gardiner, Ferguson et al. Now it's pitch fork time for ICT fans he's done a heel turn and got stuck in about them as well. 

I get that they didn't want to lose access to players so they didn't want to ruffle feathers but we shouldn't pretend he somehow holds the club to task over their idiocy which has been on show now for long enough. 

Fair enough, I used keep a closer eye on things but not properly for a while now. I totally agree about local reporters not biting the hand that feeds, but it is just refreshing to see a journalist who appears to be taking a risk, digging deep into a story and going against the grain, rather than just blindly sticking up for their mates which the vast majority of "journalists" do these days. 

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, PB1994 said:

I heard last month was his the pay cheque but no idea how true that is.

I heard him say he was still getting paid live on Sportsound.

[PB1994]

31 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I heard him say he was still getting paid live on Sportsound.

Being our manager for two and a bit years I’ve learned he speaks an incredible amount of shite tbf.

This is probably not one of those times.

[Sonam]

1 hour ago, Jacky1990 said:

Whats the deal with Dodds involvement?

Is he culpable here for assembling a shite squad and being an arsehole. Or something worse?

While I know he isn't a good manager, I do wonder if ICT had stuck with Dodds would they have got relegated? I sometimes feel Dodds, while the football was poor, would still have at least kept them up. He was bad sure... but not that bad! He was liked at County, a lot more than Jim McIntyre for reasons I won't mention.

They seemed to have got even worse since he 'left' (yet still getting paid, WTF!). I do wonder about the integrity of some of these wealthy footballers & managers collecting paychecks & waiting to be sacked to get that huge payoff. It's not a good look on the game and inevitably turns fans away. Would they genuially like to see ICT out of business? If so, shameful behaviour. Surely people like Ferguson & Dodds have enough money by now? Dodds got a nice paying, easy radio job too. Why is he deemed popular these days? This whole mess is a serious lesson to Ross County when MacGregor decides to stop investing. That day is not too far away either I reckon.

In the end I was very suprised, shocked even that it happened and sad about the whole sitation to be honest. Really hope they get out of this somehow, find a few people with money and win promotion. With the right people in charge, the good days of Steve Paterson style football can quickly return. Just to get the right buzz in the stadium before a game again. There must be a good few local business people with some money at least to avoid the worst outcome. 
 

[Sonam]

As for any manager or player under high paying contract, when a club are struggling, agreeing to walk away with your integrity intact will surely enhance chances of being hired again at another club. Different for those nearing the end of their careers I suppose, but still....

[velo army]

21 minutes ago, Sonam said:

 This whole mess is a serious lesson to Ross County when MacGregor decides to stop investing. That day is not too far away either I reckon.

 

They could always merge with Caley and Thistle to form a Highland super club. 

 

[Lanky Highlander]

21 minutes ago, Sonam said:

This whole mess is a serious lesson to Ross County when MacGregor decides to stop investing. That day is not too far away either I reckon.

Totally agree on both points. 

[bunglebonce]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

Obviously it requires some assumptions, but would it be a massive stretch to speculate that it's possible Fife Council revealing they were the ones arrangements should have been made with rather than Kelty directly could have allowed ICT a way out of the deal without any cost;

 

We don't really know if there is a contract in place already and will never know the details of it. I find it difficult to believe that this type of arrangement - if there is anything in writing at all - was done without lawyers involved, but then with SG's track record of due diligence... Had there had been a lawyer representing ICT they would immediately pick up on the fact that Kelty didn't have the right to do this without Fife Council's consent.

Spoiler

yet by going ahead and releasing that statement without any dialogue with Kelty, they've somehow broken the agreement and will still owe money?

Even if there was a confidentiality clause in the agreement, a breach of that clause would result in a claim for money being paid in damages to Kelty, rather than voiding the whole agreement.

Spoiler

It's entirely possible that they've gotten away without paying a penny here, this is total speculation, but would anyone be especially surprised if they've made a mistake like that after all the other incompetence?

One possibility is that there is a poorly drafted agreement between ICT and Kelty in place, without any reference to Fife Council etc, but it is good enough for Kelty to say to ICT that they still need to hold up their end of the bargain (i.e. paying rent). If Kelty can't perform their part of the contract i.e. allow ICT to take possession, for example if Fife Council block that, then that could be a good get-out. If Fife Council still consent to it and there is an agreement in place, ICT might well still be responsible for paying for it.

This is all entirely speculation, based on information that will likely never be made public. 

 

[Hugh Hillshaveyes]

Not enough season ticket holders/fans to get them out of this unfortunately...cheeks are a blight on Scottish football whereby religion dictates what team you support unless you have an ounce of common sense..doesn't matter how "remote" you are from cheekland...just got to pray this new ultra generation redresses some balance 

[Sir Tarmo]

Billy Dodds would not have kept us up. We did get better after he left, albeit not a lot better and the style of football was arguably worse. The day Billy Dodds got a contract extension was the day we got relegated.

[Jacky1990]

1 hour ago, Sonam said:

As for any manager or player under high paying contract, when a club are struggling, agreeing to walk away with your integrity intact will surely enhance chances of being hired again at another club. Different for those nearing the end of their careers I suppose, but still....

To be honest, never really understood this argument.

When you sign a contract for anything you expect that to be honoured. If you get sacked half way through for not meeting arbitrary conditions not stated in said contract, I think you're entitled to expect that contract paid up in full.

Football just needs to start being honest and start giving managers at our level one year rolling contracts as standard.

[PB1994]

1 hour ago, Sonam said:

While I know he isn't a good manager, I do wonder if ICT had stuck with Dodds would they have got relegated? I sometimes feel Dodds, while the football was poor, would still have at least kept them up. He was bad sure... but not that bad!

 

Absolutely not. I really can’t put into words how much I disagree but I will try.

Dodds was never a good manager. He was very well backed by the board and brought in some good players in his first season but on the park, and I’m sure a few will disagree, it was never good. We won games because we just had better players rather than any sort or tactical or coaching “masterclass” if you want to go with Gardiners words. We had no plan, no style of play, no nothing really. Just go out and see what happens and hope we have that bit of extra quality. For the most part we did.

He got us into the playoffs in his first season but we really should have been challenging for the title. Second season was largely awful but we made a late run at the playoffs, and missed out, and the Scottish Cup run the attention away. We shouldn’t even have been in the cup as we were beaten easily by Queens Park. I’ll give him the game against Livingston as we played that perfectly but then we came up against an awful Killie side and a League 1 Falkirk side who were nowhere near any mid table championship side at that point.

This season just past out of 7 games our only win was at home to Bonnyrigg in the League cup and we also got a point at home to Dunfermline. If he stayed in charge we would have finished bottom on similar points to Arbroath. Possibly even less.

I’m not trying to defend Ferguson here but he actually did okay in the league games. 41 points from 30 games is a mid table sort of record but ultimately it wasn’t good enough and that is solely on him because he brought in 7 or 8 players during January so it was his squad, largely. Plus from March onwards he still seemed to think drawing games was good enough when everyone else could see it clearly wasn’t. 

I supported Ferguson up until the playoff games where he just showed that he is a terrible manager as well but sacking Dodds wasn’t the mistake. Ultimately it was replacing him with Ferguson. Just like sacking Hughes wasn’t a mistake back in 2016 or whenever. Replacing him with Foran was and that is probably the biggest mistake that has been made in the clubs history so far,

[Matty-RCFC]

Not trying to sound like another one of those condescending fools flooding this thread, but there’s too many good people at your club for my liking to take joy in seeing it go under. Fiona McWilliams is an absolute gem of a woman and I would hate for her to be stuck for work through the fault of batshit mental decision makers above her, Craig Masterton got my son into football so it would be heart breaking if the community aspect of the club becomes more non-existent than already, and Dale the groundsman is an entirely pleasant man that lives on my mum’s street. 
 

Fingers crossed, boys. 

[PB1994]

6 minutes ago, Matty-RCFC said:

Not trying to sound like another one of those condescending fools flooding this thread, but there’s too many good people at your club for my liking to take joy in seeing it go under. Fiona McWilliams is an absolute gem of a woman and I would hate for her to be stuck for work through the fault of batshit mental decision makers above her, Craig Masterton got my son into football so it would be heart breaking if the community aspect of the club becomes more non-existent than already, and Dale the groundsman is an entirely pleasant man that lives on my mum’s street. 
 

Fingers crossed, boys. 

The community part of the club isn’t tied to the actual football club at all, which is actually great news, so hopefully no matter what happens that will carry on. Totally agree about the staff at the club. They do a brilliant job with what they have and they are the ones who are going to feel this the hardest if it comes to the worst situation.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

14 minutes ago, Matty-RCFC said:

Not trying to sound like another one of those condescending fools flooding this thread, but there’s too many good people at your club for my liking to take joy in seeing it go under. Fiona McWilliams is an absolute gem of a woman and I would hate for her to be stuck for work through the fault of batshit mental decision makers above her, Craig Masterton got my son into football so it would be heart breaking if the community aspect of the club becomes more non-existent than already, and Dale the groundsman is an entirely pleasant man that lives on my mum’s street. 
 

Fingers crossed, boys. 

Dale (and Alan Savage tbf) both went out of their way to make sure Tommy Cumming was looked after well during his illness, when people far higher up the food chain at ICT barely acknowledged Tommy after he had to stop working.

[Heaton]

I feel for you all as a fan of a club who went through this not all that long ago. It's horrible and the fans, including those who work for and volunteer for the clubs are the ones left hurting and trying to save it.

I hope you get the investment and it doesn't come to admin. 

Best of luck from a Pars fan.

[TxRover]

12 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

They already have a license, though, versus looking to obtain one to join the SPFL. Does that change anything?

From the SPFL Licensing Manual, 8.13: 

"To meet the terms of the Gold, Silver and Bronze criterion a club or any parent company of the club included in its reporting perimeter cannot have been subject to an Insolvency Event as defined in the Scottish FA’s Articles within the period between 1 June 2023 and the licensing decision in the calendar year 2024. For the avoidance of doubt, the same will apply if the concerned entity is no longer undergoing an Insolvency Event at the moment the licensing decision is taken or has transferred its membership to a new company as a result of insolvency proceedings within the above period. A club cannot meet the Gold, Silver or Bronze criterion if it has undergone an insolvency event within a three year period. In the case of decisions in 2024 this covers the period from 1 June 2021."

Note the use of "a club" and "meet". It might be taken to only cover clubs applying for the Bronze license, however, it seems it is more likely to apply to revocation of a Bronze license going forward. Of course, Edinburgh City didn't have their license lifted for the Renumeration Default, despite SPFL regulations suggesting it was possible, but instead were limited in who they could sign/retain.

And, of course, under 8.11:

"Each club shall be required to provide a copy of its audited annual financial statements prepared according to the Companies Act 2006 and relevant accounting standards either International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) or the UK Generally Accepted Accounting Practice. Audited financial statements shall include the auditor’s report. The statements shall refer to the period ended 2023. Clubs will provide this information as follows — SPFL clubs — by 31 March 2024 All other clubs — by 30 April 2024 The auditor’s report in respect of the annual financial statements shall not include an adverse or disclaimer of opinion."

So, as I understand it, ICT may have failed to comply with that provision.

It's clear as mud, as the actual licensing decision for 2024-2025 should have already been made, and this change might only apply beyond that window.

[Sonam]

6 hours ago, PB1994 said:

We won games because we just had better players rather than any sort or tactical or coaching “masterclass” if you want to go with Gardiners words. We had no plan, no style of play, no nothing really. Just go out and see what happens and hope we have that bit of extra quality. For the most part we did.

That explains a lot under Dodds, from the outside looking in could never understand the inconsistency of the results. One week a poor defeat, the next a great result against a difficult team. Kept thinking ICT surely turned a corner now, but never did.

Also remember the many low scoring draws and Ferguson appearing to be happy with them in the interviews. 

[vikingTON]

7 hours ago, Sir Tarmo said:

Billy Dodds would not have kept us up. We did get better after he left, albeit not a lot better and the style of football was arguably worse. The day Billy Dodds got a contract extension was the day we got relegated.

I don't think Dodds would have kept Inverness up, but this is revisionism about the remainder of the campaign. Inverness were alongside Morton at the bottom of the table when Dodds was removed - we didn't change our manager and (somehow) ended up finishing 5th. 

Inverness changed manager and had a reasonably large change to the first team squad in January, had multiple opportunities to determine their own fate in the final weeks of the regular season, and then simply had to get past two play-off opponents to stay up anyway. If Ferguson had anything about him as a manager then he would have achieved safety in what was an utter dogshit standard of division from 4th all the way down.