A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[tamthebam]

3 hours ago, Drew Brees said:

Celtic v China match report 1979

[Drew Brees]

[Otis Blue]

On 08/08/2023 at 09:52, Molotov said:

Those last two paragraphs are fcuking horrific racism. 

They are indeed.  Although its interesting to view them as a snapshot of what was generally acceptable back in the 1970's.  Remember that the TV sitcom "Till Death Us Do Part" (infamous for the cockney bigot Alf Garnett) was a mainstay of national UK television in the late 60's through to the early 70's.  How times change ... and for the better fortunately.

[kennie makevin]

13 hours ago, Drew Brees said:

God, those shorts were an abomination . 

[kennie makevin]

18 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

They are indeed.  Although its interesting to view them as a snapshot of what was generally acceptable back in the 1970's.  Remember that the TV sitcom "Till Death Us Do Part" (infamous for the cockney bigot Alf Garnett) was a mainstay of national UK television in the late 60's through to the early 70's.  How times change ... and for the better fortunately.

'Love Thy Neighbour' would be a better example. Alf Garnett was always the butt of the joke in "Til Death...". His bigotry set up as something to laugh at and ridicule. And when we have a Home Secretary coming out with the sort of stuff that only the National Front & BNP indulged in back in the 70's I would disagree that things have changed 'for the better'.

Edited August 9, 2023 by kennie makevin
Typo

[hk blues]

31 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

They are indeed.  Although its interesting to view them as a snapshot of what was generally acceptable back in the 1970's.  Remember that the TV sitcom "Till Death Us Do Part" (infamous for the cockney bigot Alf Garnett) was a mainstay of national UK television in the late 60's through to the early 70's.  How times change ... and for the better fortunately.

It wasn't really acceptable even back then, at least not as much as folk now looking back may think.  Sure, there are plenty of examples from plenty of TV shows but always comedies and it was a combination of 10% misguided humour and 90% turning the racism back on the 'racist' - Alf Garnet and Rigsby, for example were actually the butt of the jokes. Others, such as Mind Your Language, were no more than wholly insensitive in today's terms but representative of the general population's attitude to foreigners.

I live in the Philippines and teach Japanese English - not a day goes by where I am not the victim of casual racism, occasionally worse.  If you think the world has moved on then think again.  Maybe somewhat in the UK, maybe.

[Otis Blue]

Yes, to be fair the scripting of these programmes were intended to make the racist the butt of the joke - at least that was the intention, but sadly back then there was always a proportion of the viewers that actually agreed with the views expressed by the racist.  In that respect I think the UK has in recent years improved, although as you've noted, we're still far from perfect.  Also, as highlighted by @hk blues, this isn't unique to the UK.

 

[Arch Stanton]

2 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

'Love Thy Neighbour' would be a better example. Alf Garnett was always the butt of the joke in "Til Death...". His bigotry set up as something to laugh at and ridicule. 

LTN was exactly the same. The plot would emphasise Eddie Booth's racist attitudes towards Bill yet would always include a twist where Bill came out on top, invariably making Eddie look like a fool.

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

They are indeed.  Although its interesting to view them as a snapshot of what was generally acceptable back in the 1970's.  Remember that the TV sitcom "Till Death Us Do Part" (infamous for the cockney bigot Alf Garnett) was a mainstay of national UK television in the late 60's through to the early 70's.  How times change ... and for the better fortunately.

The Black and White Minstrel Show had to be seen to be believed and there was no twist involved to make the racists the butt of the joke. A point Jim Davidson makes is that the BBC were broadcasting stuff like that and were actively encouraging him to do his Chalky White routine back then and now want to treat him as a pariah over it rather than highlighting their own past misdeeds.

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The Black and White Minstrel Show had to be seen to be believed and there was no twist involved to make the racists the butt of the joke. A point Jim Davidson makes is that the BBC were broadcasting stuff like that and were actively encouraging him to do his Chalky White routine back then and now want to treat him as a pariah over it rather than highlighting their own past misdeeds.

Aye, very true. Sadly I'm old enough to remember The Black and White Minstrel Show (I'd forgotten all about that) - my folks used to watch it ... most folks did back then.

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

They are indeed.  Although its interesting to view them as a snapshot of what was generally acceptable back in the 1970's.  Remember that the TV sitcom "Till Death Us Do Part" (infamous for the cockney bigot Alf Garnett) was a mainstay of national UK television in the late 60's through to the early 70's.  How times change ... and for the better fortunately.

Aye, Warren Mitchell was a leading racist.

[HibeeJibee]

Brilliant image spotted by Alex Drysdale of the East of Scotland team that beat Glasgow in 1889. In those days a major game in the calendar. Note the variety of clubs (and none from Rangers):



Saturday 23rd February 1889
Inter-City match
East of Scotland 5-3 Glasgow
3:45pm at Powderhall ("before fully 8,000")

East of Scotland:
McKay (Hearts)
Adams (Hearts), Roberts (Hearts)*
McGhee (Hibs), Hutton (St Bernards), McQueen (Champfleurie)
Corson (St Bernards), Laing (Leith Athletic), Reid (Hearts), Boyd (Mossend Swifts), Baird (Hearts)
*photo shows Cairns

Glasgow:
Gillespie (Queen's Park)
Arnott (Queen's Park), McKeown (Celtic)
Robertson (Queen's Park), Auld (Third Lanark), McPherson (Cowlairs)
McCallum (Celtic), Berry (Queen's Park), Paul (Partick), Johnston (Partick), Sellar (Queen's Park)

Referee:     Harrison (Ayrshire)
Umpires:     Snedden (East of Scotland), Kirkwood (Glasgow)






     

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The Black and White Minstrel Show had to be seen to be believed and there was no twist involved to make the racists the butt of the joke. A point Jim Davidson makes is that the BBC were broadcasting stuff like that and were actively encouraging him to do his Chalky White routine back then and now want to treat him as a pariah over it rather than highlighting their own past misdeeds.

[Dirty Sanchez]

[PossilYM]

14 hours ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

Charlie Nicholas turning up at Tory Party rally probably beats that by some distance.

[Bairn in Exile]

On 09/08/2023 at 17:38, hk blues said:

It wasn't really acceptable even back then, at least not as much as folk now looking back may think.  Sure, there are plenty of examples from plenty of TV shows but always comedies and it was a combination of 10% misguided humour and 90% turning the racism back on the 'racist' - Alf Garnet and Rigsby, for example were actually the butt of the jokes. Others, such as Mind Your Language, were no more than wholly insensitive in today's terms but representative of the general population's attitude to foreigners.

I live in the Philippines and teach Japanese English - not a day goes by where I am not the victim of casual racism, occasionally worse.  If you think the world has moved on then think again.  Maybe somewhat in the UK, maybe.

I have lived and worked in Vietnam for years and my experience as an ex-pat is totally different to yours. The people here couldn't be friendlier and more welcoming and I have never once been the victim of racism. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for foreigners who are visitors to this wonderful country, I have witnessed ex-pats of all nationalities talking down to the locals and treating them as if they are inferior, terrible.

[hk blues]

14 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

I have lived and worked in Vietnam for years and my experience as an ex-pat is totally different to yours. The people here couldn't be friendlier and more welcoming and I have never once been the victim of racism. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for foreigners who are visitors to this wonderful country, I have witnessed ex-pats of all nationalities talking down to the locals and treating them as if they are inferior, terrible.

I didn't say they weren't friendly or welcoming here (quite the opposite in fact), but they also are guilty through ignorance of casual racism.  Examples would be saying 'Hey Joe" to all foreigners - Joe is the nickname Filipinos gave to American military.  And, in their local language the word for foreigner is 'Americano."  Low level casual racism and not something to get upset about but still.  Unlike you, I haven't witnessed much negativity to locals here from ex-pats but then again the Philippines is very American-centric and the major group of visible ex-pats here are the Americans. 

[Bairn in Exile]

2 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I didn't say they weren't friendly or welcoming here (quite the opposite in fact), but they also are guilty through ignorance of casual racism.  Examples would be saying 'Hey Joe" to all foreigners - Joe is the nickname Filipinos gave to American military.  And, in their local language the word for foreigner is 'Americano."  Low level casual racism and not something to get upset about but still.  Unlike you, I haven't witnessed much negativity to locals here from ex-pats but then again the Philippines is very American-centric and the major group of visible ex-pats here are the Americans. 

Fair dos. The Vietnamese are extremely inquisitive and always ask "where are you from?' so no need for "Hey Joe"!

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Fair dos. The Vietnamese are extremely inquisitive and always ask "where are you from?' so no need for "Hey Joe"!

The Filipinos are inquisitive by nature too - some may say nosy - but it's all good until it's not!  Having visited Vietnam a few times they seem to be a bit humble and soft spoken, almost timid.  Filipinos love a beer and a whisky and it's best to steer clear of a local party once the night wears on as 'cultural misunderstandings' can lead to serious bust-ups.  Most ex-pats here are retirees and/or worldly wise and know when to take their leave so such bust-ups are uncommon.

 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 hours ago, hk blues said:

I didn't say they weren't friendly or welcoming here (quite the opposite in fact), but they also are guilty through ignorance of casual racism.  Examples would be saying 'Hey Joe" to all foreigners - Joe is the nickname Filipinos gave to American military.  And, in their local language the word for foreigner is 'Americano."  Low level casual racism and not something to get upset about but still.  Unlike you, I haven't witnessed much negativity to locals here from ex-pats but then again the Philippines is very American-centric and the major group of visible ex-pats here are the Americans. 

Your racism bar is a bit low.