pawpar Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Meanwhile in the Netherlands - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, pawpar said: Meanwhile in the Netherlands - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272 Posted about it in the other thread already, but it's depressing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 39 minutes ago, pawpar said: Meanwhile in the Netherlands - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272 More like UKIP than the Waffen SS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I remember when the Netherlands was cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I worked in factories in Amsterdam in the late 70s when young people descended on it from all over Europe for the liberal dope laws, including Germans escaping conscription, and there was a major influx from ex-colonies like Surinam and Indonesia, and workers from Morocco and Turkey. In the factories everyone I worked with was Moroccan or Turkish, or the odd Brit, everyone from forklift driver to foreman and above was Dutch. Behind the easy going, liberal attitude that the Netherlands was famed for was a pretty rigid racial hierarchy, and resentment especially from older people about how things were changing around them. I've always felt that the nice liberal open minded Dutch thing was a bit of a myth, and contrived to compare themselves with the nasty Germans, a bit like the Tartan Army turned all friendly when the England fans went fascist. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I can see France following suit. There's a wave of anxiety and uncertainty throughout the world right now for some reason. Perhaps it was ramped up during lockdown but we tend to move rightwards during such times. I'm a bit afraid of all of this given the slow drip towards fascism and nationalism (bad kind) here and the slow erosion of freedoms. I'm even more concerned about the rise in ocean temperatures and the effects of this. If we thought now was fertile ground for a rightward shift wait til we have a genuine flood of people moving northwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Martin Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Wilders has been doing this for a long time, steadily growing in support as more and more youth come onto the scene and see what is happening. Apparently he did a great job in the recent debate. The fact he can't live a normal life is awful, so huge respect to him for continuing to plod on regardless. -7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Johnny Martin said: Wilders has been doing this for a long time, steadily growing in support as more and more youth come onto the scene and see what is happening. Apparently he did a great job in the recent debate. The fact he can't live a normal life is awful, so huge respect to him for continuing to plod on regardless. Lololol. Keep fighting the good fight Johnny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I worked in factories in Amsterdam in the late 70s when young people descended on it from all over Europe for the liberal dope laws, including Germans escaping conscription, and there was a major influx from ex-colonies like Surinam and Indonesia, and workers from Morocco and Turkey. In the factories everyone I worked with was Moroccan or Turkish, or the odd Brit, everyone from forklift driver to foreman and above was Dutch. Behind the easy going, liberal attitude that the Netherlands was famed for was a pretty rigid racial hierarchy, and resentment especially from older people about how things were changing around them. I've always felt that the nice liberal open minded Dutch thing was a bit of a myth, and contrived to compare themselves with the nasty Germans, a bit like the Tartan Army turned all friendly when the England fans went fascist. I think in reality, The Netherlands has always been a country of extremes. On the one hand, a decent percentage of the population is very liberal, but for example there is also a region that is extremely religiously conservative, making Lewis and Harris look like a very liberal place. It's also not as straightforward in The Netherlands that liberal is generally to the left and conservative generally to the right. There is a social conservative Christian party (ChristianUnion) that is economically firmly on the left. The "mainstream right" party is on many issues (like LGBT+ rights, abortion, euthanasia etc.) pretty liberal. And as much as I hate Geert Wilders, he is actually relatively liberal on some of those issues too, at least compared to his counterparts in other countries. The country being a country of extremes is nothing new either. In WW2 for example, of all countries occupied by the nazis we had both the 2nd most resistance fighters per head of the population (after France) and the 2nd most collaborators actively working with the nazis (after Austria). Edited November 23, 2023 by Marten 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, velo army said: I can see France following suit. There's a wave of anxiety and uncertainty throughout the world right now for some reason. Perhaps it was ramped up during lockdown but we tend to move rightwards during such times. I'm a bit afraid of all of this given the slow drip towards fascism and nationalism (bad kind) here and the slow erosion of freedoms. I'm even more concerned about the rise in ocean temperatures and the effects of this. If we thought now was fertile ground for a rightward shift wait til we have a genuine flood of people moving northwards. On the plus side if the EU goes fascist and Britain becomes a bastion of Socialism, or Liberal Democracy at least, what a pickle Rees Mogg and Farage are going to be in! Edited November 23, 2023 by welshbairn 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: On the plus side if the EU goes fascist and Britain becomes a bastion of Socialism, or Liberal Democracy at least, what a pickle Rees Mogg and Farage are going to be in! There's absolutely no chance of Britain becoming a bastion of socialism. There was a brief flicker of a chance when Corbyn was elected, but this was snuffed out pretty quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Worra kunt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Leith Green said: Worra kunt 3D chess from Sunak keeping the outright loonies within the tent, just to remind everyone how loony the ERG wing is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyIncognito Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 hours ago, pawpar said: Meanwhile in the Netherlands - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272 Some of the stuff this guy and his party have been proposing is insane. They include: A complete stop to granting anyone asylum. Deporting criminals and stripping them of Dutch citizenship. Ending free movement of labour from the EU An EU referendum, until then cutting all EU funding. Increasing oil and gas extraction, oppose all wind/solar developments. Abolishing the Senate Withdrawing previous apologies for slavery. Stop printing government documents in Arabic or Turkish. Kick Turkey out of NATO. End all foreign aid. https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1727608887916818612 Sadly I think this brand of politics is on the increase across the world, Le Pen in France, that guy from Argentina, an increased likelihood of a Trump win in 2024 since last month, and a right wing government here regardless of the next result. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 He seems to be fairly pro NATO, so I’d assume the Washington goons will be behind him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: He seems to be fairly pro NATO, so I’d assume the Washington goons will be behind him. Where are you getting that from? He talks about kicking Turkey out of NATO and stopping arms deliveries to Ukraine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Where are you getting that from? He talks about kicking Turkey out of NATO and stopping arms deliveries to Ukraine. He probably doesn’t want Turkey in NATO because it doesn’t fit his Western Eurocentric worldview. Edited November 23, 2023 by MazzyStar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, GuyIncognito said: Some of the stuff this guy and his party have been proposing is insane. They include: A complete stop to granting anyone asylum. Deporting criminals and stripping them of Dutch citizenship. Ending free movement of labour from the EU An EU referendum, until then cutting all EU funding. Increasing oil and gas extraction, oppose all wind/solar developments. Abolishing the Senate Withdrawing previous apologies for slavery. Stop printing government documents in Arabic or Turkish. Kick Turkey out of NATO. End all foreign aid. https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1727608887916818612 Sadly I think this brand of politics is on the increase across the world, Le Pen in France, that guy from Argentina, an increased likelihood of a Trump win in 2024 since last month, and a right wing government here regardless of the next result. Thankfully, the chance that he can actually implement those more extreme points is pretty slim. Other parties won't work with him unless he drops these points. And if they go to votes in parliament, let's remember that he "only" has about a quarter of the seats, nowhere near a majority, making it unlikely to get enough votes for those plans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) Seems a bit like England with Brexit, it is rural areas and smaller conurbations that voted for Wilders. Edited November 23, 2023 by jagfox 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Leith Green said: Worra kunt He'll be disappointed to learn that relocation to Scottish islands isn't viewed as punishment by asylum seekers. Now permanent residents from Syria and Sudan are getting on well in Bute. https://www.unhcr.org/uk/news/stories/scottish-island-community-rainy-haven-refugees-who-are-giving-back 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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