Cove Thread

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I think it’s something Hartley has really pushed for to be honest. It will come with the added caveat that any full time player would also have to relocate himself and potentially his family to Aberdeen. I don’t really get it.

 

I was thinking that, going full time will potentially rule-out as many good players as it attracts. Currently a good part-time player from the central belt or Perth/Dundee could sign for Cove and train twice a week no problem, so your market as a part-time club is the majority of Scotland.

Going full-time will mean any players not local will have to relocate, for the kind of wages they are getting and short contracts that's a much bigger ask than asking them to commute twice a week. Guys with families and kids are less likely to relocate for the kind of deals they'll be getting.

Time will tell I guess. There will be 3 other full-time clubs in the league next year (I've seen people mention us as hybrid, we are basically full-time in terms of the players who actually play) so if they want to compete I get why they are doing it. 

[CALDERON]

I think it's mental, to be honest. Cove have a core home support in the hundreds, a tiny stadium that is an absolute pain to get to, and are completely dependent on whoever is pumping the money in to continue doing so.  The last point I guess isn't hugely different from some other sides, but the novelty surrounding Cove will wear off from the Aberdeen public at some point- especially if Aberdeen become decent again.

That and they have an absolutely horrid manager who seems to have a decent amount of influence there.

Being the lowest ranked or smallest full time side can hinder every bit as much as it can help - saw that with Raith Rovers under Barry Smith before he took the huff, you can end up with the dregs nobody else wants and miss out on very capable players for that level who want to retain the flexibility of part time football.

[Derry Alli]

In what way is Cove difficult to get to? I take it you mean by public transport?

[CALDERON]

19 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

In what way is Cove difficult to get to? I take it you mean by public transport?

Sorry yeah, meant from an away day/day out point of view.  Probably not relevant to the point, but it's a gripe of mine

 

[Kelheart]

Kyle Gourley signed for us , any good ?

[Bring Your Own Socks]

On 18/05/2023 at 15:21, CoveRangers1922 said:

The way it's worded, or I read it, is that 2023/2024 will be hybrid given we have a number of players on PT contracts and the season after we'd be full time. Very bold on the latter. We likely need hybrid at minimum to get ourselves back to the Championship and be able to compete there. 

Be very interested to see the calibre of our full time players this upcoming season. It will open doors for recruitment but will introduce a bigger expectation and pressure on the pitch

You say bold but it shows a club planning for the future. The timing of it suggests a conversation indoors where some folk have felt that had you gone FT or at least hybrid this season you wouldn’t be going down. It looks to me to be a two-step thing, first to get you up again and then the seeds already sown for an established position in tier 2. That’s good strategical thinking. Best of luck.

Re The Rangers thing; when Berwick Rangers and QP were regularly in the same leagues no-one ever referred to them as Rangers, not even Berwick fans as I recall. Does any Cove fans refer to your team as Rangers? We always just called you Cove. I assume Sandy Cromarty was referring to the location and historical position between Dons and Gers fans, but I can’t imagine changing your name would make much difference?

[Tattie36]

4 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

You say bold but it shows a club planning for the future. The timing of it suggests a conversation indoors where some folk have felt that had you gone FT or at least hybrid this season you wouldn’t be going down. It looks to me to be a two-step thing, first to get you up again and then the seeds already sown for an established position in tier 2. That’s good strategical thinking. Best of luck.

Re The Rangers thing; when Berwick Rangers and QP were regularly in the same leagues no-one ever referred to them as Rangers, not even Berwick fans as I recall. Does any Cove fans refer to your team as Rangers? We always just called you Cove. I assume Sandy Cromarty was referring to the location and historical position between Dons and Gers fans, but I can’t imagine changing your name would make much difference?

I live in Aberdeen and, obviously, know many Dons fans.

Most of them, of a certain age anyway, would never go to a Cove game and a big part of it is the Rangers name/blue kit/Lion badge “staunchness”. I’ve even had some of them utterly horrified at the suggestion of catching a game at Balmoral - as if I was asking them to go to a “Sons of Terry Hurlock” Lodge Meeting or something.

I’m not saying this is right or justified but a name/colour/badge change when they came into L2 would have been a good idea imo.

[CoveRangers1922]

6 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

You seebold but it shows a club planning for the future. The timing of it suggests a conversation indoors where some folk have felt that had you gone FT or at least hybrid this season you wouldn’t be going down. It looks to me to be a two-step thing, first to get you up again and then the seeds already sown for an established position in tier 2. That’s good strategical thinking. Best of luck.

Re The Rangers thing; when Berwick Rangers and QP were regularly in the same leagues no-one ever referred to them as Rangers, not even Berwick fans as I recall. Does any Cove fans refer to your team as Rangers? We always just called you Cove. I assume Sandy Cromarty was referring to the location and historical position between Dons and Gers fans, but I can’t imagine changing your name would make much difference?

The 5 year plan was, supposedly, always to become full time in some capacity and it looks like we've triggered it ahead of time, which is a risk, but sometimes you don't get where you want to be without taking them. Looked very much like we hit our ceiling last year and without going hybrid we might struggle to get back up (still might). Our golden generation is aging or already left.

Definitely more pressure on us now in L1 to get back up. It's make or break season for Hartley. He needs to prove he can recruit and build a side not just get success with a largely inherited side.

Without the sacking of McIntyre, or continually getting lucky with loans or short term deals, we might well have stayed up but it never looked like we'd prosper. Do we want our pinnacle to be scraping for 8th in tier 2 or do we want to twist and go for it.

It's clearly extremely important that we put massive focus on growing all off field operations in order that we strive towards something close to sustainability. I'm led to believe this is very high on the agenda and plans are in place.

I refer to us as Cove. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[Derry Alli]

1 hour ago, Tattie36 said:

I live in Aberdeen and, obviously, know many Dons fans.

Most of them, of a certain age anyway, would never go to a Cove game and a big part of it is the Rangers name/blue kit/Lion badge “staunchness”.

[CoveRangers1922]

2 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

I live in Aberdeen and, obviously, know many Dons fans.

Most of them, of a certain age anyway, would never go to a Cove game and a big part of it is the Rangers name/blue kit/Lion badge “staunchness”. I’ve even had some of them utterly horrified at the suggestion of catching a game at Balmoral - as if I was asking them to go to a “Sons of Terry Hurlock” Lodge Meeting or something.

I’m not saying this is right or justified but a name/colour/badge change when they came into L2 would have been a good idea imo.

Somehow we need more of an alliance between us and the Dons. We are no threat to them. Burrows mentioned in his response about no to the Conference League that Aberdeen are looking to form a strategic partnership with another SPFL club;  I suspect that's us given Keith Moorhouse almost the same day in the press hinted towards something similar. I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise if we do something on and off the field with them.

Edited May 21, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[Moorie]

22 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

I live in Aberdeen and, obviously, know many Dons fans.

Most of them, of a certain age anyway, would never go to a Cove game and a big part of it is the Rangers name/blue kit/Lion badge “staunchness”. I’ve even had some of them utterly horrified at the suggestion of catching a game at Balmoral - as if I was asking them to go to a “Sons of Terry Hurlock” Lodge Meeting or something.

I’m not saying this is right or justified but a name/colour/badge change when they came into L2 would have been a good idea imo.

I think it’s the same as people who stay in Inverurie, Fraserburgh, Buckie etc that follow the Dons but go watch their local team on occasions too. Living in Cove I know a few boys who Aberdeen are their man team but have been following cove too since the Allan Park days. I doubt if I didn’t live in cove I would bother going to there games but only a short walk to the ground it’s an other option if Dons are away or it’s international weekend. 

[Moorie]

20 hours ago, CoveRangers1922 said:

Somehow we need more of an alliance between us and the Dons. We are no threat to them. Burrows mentioned in his response about no to the Conference League that Aberdeen are looking to form a strategic partnership with another SPFL club;  I suspect that's us given Keith Moorhouse almost the same day in the press hinted towards something similar. I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise if we do something on and off the field with them.

Keith Moorhouse, son and Terry Cobban we’re all present at the Gothenburg freedom of the city event a few weeks ago. I know they were all originally following the Dons/involved previously but could be something there 

[Tattie36]

3 minutes ago, Moorie said:

I think it’s the same as people who stay in Inverurie, Fraserburgh, Buckie etc that follow the Dons but go watch their local team on occasions too. Living in Cove I know a few boys who Aberdeen are their man team but have been following cove too since the Allan Park days. I doubt if I didn’t live in cove I would bother going to there games but only a short walk to the ground it’s an other option if Dons are away or it’s international weekend. 

There lies the biggest problem for Cove. If they ever reach the Premiership (obviously the medium term goal what with going full time), are any of these Dons fans realistically going to switch allegiance? Nae chance. It’s one thing to go and watch another team from the city and wish them well, even “support” them to an extent, but put them in the same league as the Dons and there’s only ever going to be one winner.

I think Cove going properly full-time is utterly insane at this point in their history. If they’re adamant that that’s the way to go then at least ease into it with a few seasons of hybrid.

There is a reason that all the full time clubs in Scotland are full time (barring QP which I can also see ending in disaster although they surely have more potential than Cove) - they are generally the biggest, historically most successful clubs from the biggest towns/largest catchment areas. It doesn’t matter if you have a benefactor willing to pump huge amounts of money in as that can’t last forever and where does a club go once that dries up? Quite simply, it will take decades of success for Cove to build up any kind of viable fanbase… if ever.

Having said all that, it is quite refreshing to see clubs show ambition so fair play for that.

[AUcal]

Moving away from part time football worked very well for Ayr after our relegation in 2016/2017. We went full time that summer and it was the catalyst for the club finally winning the division (instead of yo-yoing via the play offs) and going on to have the current sustained period of time in the 2nd tier.

A hybrid model could work in a similar fashion for Cove, certainly seems to have been beneficial for Airdrie recently. The main difference however (at the risky of sounding crowd wanky) was that Ayr had a decent support for L1 level, which made going full time a more realistic prospect in the long run - as long as we got it correct enough on the pitch. Along with Raith (who were already full time) we probably would have been expected to challenge anyway even without the full-time move.

It's certainly a bold approach, but I'm not sure on the long term feasibility of it with crowd numbers etc. Cove seem to have plateaued somewhat and my concern would be that the club would probably have to be promoted again in the next season or two for it to be viable to remain hybrid / full time beyond that.

Over to Hartley to build a good team I guess ....

We can send Bangala back if you'd like?

[Uncle Psychosis]

44 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

There lies the biggest problem for Cove. If they ever reach the Premiership (obviously the medium term goal what with going full time), are any of these Dons fans realistically going to switch allegiance? Nae chance. It’s one thing to go and watch another team from the city and wish them well, even “support” them to an extent, but put them in the same league as the Dons and there’s only ever going to be one winner.

 

I actually agree with you but playing devil's advocate here: Aberdeen is bigger than Dundee, and Dundee comfortably supports two full-time teams on the occasions they're both in the same division. 

Trying to convince myself as much as anyone else: long-time Dons fans aren't going to switch. However more casual 'supporters' and younger folk might, perhaps, take an interest. If Cove are in it for the long haul it might be feasible, but it won't happen overnight. 

[SandyCromarty]

On 17/05/2023 at 17:29, TxRover said:

Why? They’ve had it for 101 years, which a few more than that Sevco outfit. Plus there’s already a Cove F.C.

They are Aberdeen based and they would probably increase their home crowds when the Dons are away given the Aberdeen/Rangers ongoing feud, my brother was a huge Dandie and like all his pals despised anything to do with Rangers, petty I know but that's the way it is.

[CoveRangers1922]

3 hours ago, Uncle Psychosis said:

I actually agree with you but playing devil's advocate here: Aberdeen is bigger than Dundee, and Dundee comfortably supports two full-time teams on the occasions they're both in the same division. 

Trying to convince myself as much as anyone else: long-time Dons fans aren't going to switch. However more casual 'supporters' and younger folk might, perhaps, take an interest. If Cove are in it for the long haul it might be feasible, but it won't happen overnight. 

Aberdeen is definitely big enough for two full time sides but undeniably it's a difficult task to grow our fan base as the Dons have a ~100 year head start on us being a professional side and have had many years of glory. 

The cart is definitely in front of the horse, with the switch to hybrid this upcoming season and full time thereafter, of course it is but we need to make it work. Hartley has a job to completely rebuild the side as our golden generation who largely got us to tier 2 is all but gone minus a few. Imperative we get that bit right as a successful side clearly has a much better chance of attracting people through the gates.

You're right it will be the younger generation that might be easier to attract than the older ones who will have gone to Pittodrie for decades. We need to put a huge focus on exploring all avenues in order to get the crowds up. I'm sure the board are fully aware of the need and are focused on implementing their plans. Since coming up to the SPFL the sole focus has been on the pitch and getting up the leagues. A new full time club needs to work equally as hard off it as it does on it.

3 hours ago, AuAl said:

Moving away from part time football worked very well for Ayr after our relegation in 2016/2017. We went full time that summer and it was the catalyst for the club finally winning the division (instead of yo-yoing via the play offs) and going on to have the current sustained period of time in the 2nd tier.

A hybrid model could work in a similar fashion for Cove, certainly seems to have been beneficial for Airdrie recently. The main difference however (at the risky of sounding crowd wanky) was that Ayr had a decent support for L1 level, which made going full time a more realistic prospect in the long run - as long as we got it correct enough on the pitch. Along with Raith (who were already full time) we probably would have been expected to challenge anyway even without the full-time move.

It's certainly a bold approach, but I'm not sure on the long term feasibility of it with crowd numbers etc. Cove seem to have plateaued somewhat and my concern would be that the club would probably have to be promoted again in the next season or two for it to be viable to remain hybrid / full time beyond that.

Over to Hartley to build a good team I guess ....

We can send Bangala back if you'd like?

Agree with you on those points

Hartley's recruitment will be severely critiqued, by me and many, now his hands aren't as tied behind his back as he hinted they were. He needs to prove he can build a squad. He clearly did target players in January that we, as Cove fans, would have liked to see, but they had FT options and rightly dismissed us. Doesn't have that to hide behind now and he's got added pressure on his shoulders as a miserable 4 months with us and year for him.

Fully expect to see Bangala on your release list when it's announced after the playoffs!

[19QOS19]

FT meaning Hartley has more time with the players? 

Cove have just become my favourites for the drop...

[Moorie]

8 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

There lies the biggest problem for Cove. If they ever reach the Premiership (obviously the medium term goal what with going full time), are any of these Dons fans realistically going to switch allegiance? Nae chance. It’s one thing to go and watch another team from the city and wish them well, even “support” them to an extent, but put them in the same league as the Dons and there’s only ever going to be one winner.

I think Cove going properly full-time is utterly insane at this point in their history. If they’re adamant that that’s the way to go then at least ease into it with a few seasons of hybrid.

There is a reason that all the full time clubs in Scotland are full time (barring QP which I can also see ending in disaster although they surely have more potential than Cove) - they are generally the biggest, historically most successful clubs from the biggest towns/largest catchment areas. It doesn’t matter if you have a benefactor willing to pump huge amounts of money in as that can’t last forever and where does a club go once that dries up? Quite simply, it will take decades of success for Cove to build up any kind of viable fanbase… if ever.

Having said all that, it is quite refreshing to see clubs show ambition so fair play for that.

Interested to see how this works out. I know it was talked last season by the chairman but it’s comes across pushing the panic button. Be good see who the targeted players are and contact lengths they will be looking at. Surely going to be competing with some championship teams for players and trying attract people away from the central belt. Or be looking at Aberdeen, Dundee clubs and the highland clubs cast offs. 

I’ve mentioned a few times they have 3 schools in the area of cove alone they shipbuilding be doing more to get tickets in there and players giving awards at training etc. this maybe will come now they are full time but need to start attracting the local youth first. I do know that they don’t even let the cove youth teams (not related to the club) use the pitch for training which you hope a link with that will also help the next generation to go to games 

7 hours ago, Uncle Psychosis said:

I actually agree with you but playing devil's advocate here: Aberdeen is bigger than Dundee, and Dundee comfortably supports two full-time teams on the occasions they're both in the same division. 

Trying to convince myself as much as anyone else: long-time Dons fans aren't going to switch. However more casual 'supporters' and younger folk might, perhaps, take an interest. If Cove are in it for the long haul it might be feasible, but it won't happen overnight. 

Difference with the Dundee clubs they have been around at lot longer in the professional leagues. Cove just starting out. I can see a few more heading to cove if Aberdeen are away especially they start climbing the leagues a quickly. Will always get a big crowd if they get a big team in the up or eventually the league but same as most lower league clubs. 
If this is a success they will be looking at ICT or Livi crowds for their highest attendance 

[1320Lichtie]

Most of the fun for people from Dundee supporting one of the Dundee clubs is the huge rivalry there is between the 2 of them…. That’s why they both have such good supports. If there was just one Dundee city team I’m pretty sure they’d not get 13/14k or combined crowd that United and Dundee get just now from a city of 140k.