Rangers' Wee Spot in Europe - Season 2023/24

[Insaintee]

5 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

I really don’t think it’s appropriate to condemn the behaviour of players clearly hurt and emotional after a horrific incident such as that. It is a completely normal reaction, and doesn’t even register as an issue here. 

Sorry yes it is. Two wrongs don't make a right. Goldson's comments smacked of Roy Keane. Also Goldson was not racially abused nor was Roofe. Their actions and comments are not helpful. 

For example, if Kamara had lamped the boy (doubtful I admit, but possible). Does that mean that it all done and dusted and evened out. No absolutely not. 

On the other hand if Kamara has lamped the boy and there's no evidence of racism  (which other than Kamara's word there isn't) is sounds like an excuse. 

Are you saying that the racist abuse was allowable due to the boy having seen his goal keeper kicked in the face and stretchered off. 

See, there is no justification 

No hard to understand, you don't get to take the law into your own hands,

Edited March 20, 2021 by Insaintee

[AJF]

57 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

Racism should definately be punished. However, apparently only Kamara heard the remark, which means it's unfortunately a he said she said situation. 

I recommend watching Anton Ferdinand's documentary about his experience with John Terry and the FA. There is unlikely to be a happy conclusion to this for anyone. 

It's also unfortunate that this incident happened in 87th minute of a game where the **** were loosing 2-0 at home and going out of a European tie and had two men sent off.  Accusations of poor looser, heads gone, sour grapes etc are a convenient deflection for Sparta Prague, and frankly Goldson's comments about going out to hurt someone in the final minutes  play into that narrative. 

Equally Roofe might have done better to spend his time on social media explaining why he kicked the Prague goal keeper in the face  rather than talking about Racist comments, I don't think he was on the pitch long enough to be racial abused by Sparta players and definately was not on the pitch when the alleged comments were made. I don't think his comments on the matter are helpful or relevant 

Racism is absolutely wrong, but it is also not an excuse for violence. Rangers have lost much of the moral high ground by their behavior and comments.  I don't want to get dragged into all that Slippy G has no class thing. But there are ways to support your player that don't involve all this drama and outrage

Hopefully Eufa will get to the bottom of things, and all the wrong doings of that evening will be punished, the match declared void and goes to either a replay or Rangers awarded a walk over 3-0 and go through to the next round 

Just a few wee points to this. Firstly, it doesn’t seem like Kamara was the only one to hear the remark. Zungu was standing immediately to Kamara’s left and joined Kamara in complaining as soon as the incident happened. There is also video footage of Zungu shouting over to the bench “he said fucking monkey” which matches Kamara’s statement released last night.

The timing of the incident is not relevant to the facts of the case. Slavia can argue poor losers all they want but if that is taken into consideration when reviewing the incident then something is seriously wrong.

Additionally, Goldson said he wanted to hurt someone as a result of the comments made to Kamara. It was not just a random feeling he had due to the team getting beat.

Roofe’s actions on the pitch have no bearing whatsoever on the Kamara incident, none at all so that is irrelevant. To suggest he should’ve been talking about the red card he received rather than the racist abuse he suffered is very blinkered. As Gerrard said, some things are more important than the game so I’m not sure what angle you are going for here.

I also question your comments about losing the moral high ground due to alleged reports of violence which have come from Slavia. If true, this is wrong but completely understandable and again, you need to question what possessed someone like Kamara to “attack” someone. For me, this adds even more weight to the claims that Kamara is being truthful.

54 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

You are right, but there is also no evidence of the racist remark 

Finally, there is evidence of the racist remark. Glen Kamara and Bongani Zungu will no doubt give oral evidence/witness statements which is 100% admissible evidence.

You’ll also then get similar from Kudela and it will then be up to the powers that be to decide who they believe.

[AJF]

1 minute ago, Insaintee said:

Sorry yes it is. Two wrongs don't make a right. Goldson's comments smacked of Roy Keane. Also Goldson was not racially abused nor was Roofe. Their actions and comments are not helpful. 

For example, if Kamara had lamped the boy (doubtful I admit, but possible). Does that mean that it all done and dusted and evened out. No absolutely not. 

On the other hand if Kamara has lamped the boy and there's no evidence of racism  (which other than Kamara's word there isn't) is sounds like an excuse. 

No hard to understand, you don't get to take the law into your own hands

Kemar Roofe received a torrent of racist abuse on his Instagram account following his red card. That is what his comments were about.

[Insaintee]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

Kemar Roofe received a torrent of racist abuse on his Instagram account following his red card. That is what his comments were about.

Are you suggesting the Prague boy had his Iphone on the pitch? Totally irrelevant. 

[Ross.]

There would be a very dark irony involved if Rangers were punished for correctly dealing with someone else’s racism.

[AJF]

Just now, Insaintee said:

Are you suggesting the Prague boy had his Iphone on the pitch? Totally irrelevant. 

Of course I’m not, I never said Roofe received racist abuse form the Slavia player, I’m saying the racist abuse received by Roofe on his Instagram account is what prompted him to speak out after the game, screenshotting the abuse he had received.

I can’t fathom why you believe him highlighting this is unhelpful at all.

[Forever_blueco]

1 hour ago, Insaintee said:

Racism should definately be punished. However, apparently only Kamara heard the remark, which means it's unfortunately a he said she said situation. 

I recommend watching Anton Ferdinand's documentary about his experience with John Terry and the FA. There is unlikely to be a happy conclusion to this for anyone. 

It's also unfortunate that this incident happened in 87th minute of a game where the **** were loosing 2-0 at home and going out of a European tie and had two men sent off.  Accusations of poor looser, heads gone, sour grapes etc are a convenient deflection for Sparta Prague, and frankly Goldson's comments about going out to hurt someone in the final minutes  play into that narrative. 

Equally Roofe might have done better to spend his time on social media explaining why he kicked the Prague goal keeper in the face  rather than talking about Racist comments, I don't think he was on the pitch long enough to be racial abused by Sparta players and definately was not on the pitch when the alleged comments were made. I don't think his comments on the matter are helpful or relevant 

Racism is absolutely wrong, but it is also not an excuse for violence. Rangers have lost much of the moral high ground by their behavior and comments.  I don't want to get dragged into all that Slippy G has no class thing. But there are ways to support your player that don't involve all this drama and outrage

Hopefully Eufa will get to the bottom of things, and all the wrong doings of that evening will be punished, the match declared void and goes to either a replay or Rangers awarded a walk over 3-0 and go through to the next round 

Zungu also claims to have heard it so straight away your post is one load of pish 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

You might want to try and read my post properly before getting up on your "I hate the old firm and everything they stand for" pedestal and attribute things to me which I've not said.

You seem to have ignored the bit in my post that you quoted that said "on here". As in, in this thread and this forum in general.

So yes, most Rangers (and Celtic) fans have spoken out against sectarianism, across the various threads, "on here".

If course that doesn't mean 'Most/All Old Firm fans". That would have been ridiculous, had I said it. But I didn't.

You're having an argument with yourself about a point no one made.

No rebuttal of my description of the Sisters, I note. "On here", or in real life, followers of either cheek are totally blind when it comes to the fact that by supporting them, they condone the behaviour and attitudes of not just the clubs, but the "tiny minority" that the clubs have never, and will never, challenge. Because the Sisters know their market.

[SANTAN]

This thread is proof there is depressingly a long way to go up here on the subject of racism, I've seen more understanding and empathy from celtc fans on the subject than some of the backwards diddies like Norman and co, I suspect they're just after some attention but jesus christ, read the room, tell this stuff to your partner not on a public forum. 

[Forever_blueco]

The roofe challenge being used as some sort of excuse for the whole thing is some stretching .  Bad challenges like that happen in football regularly and it was dealt with by the ref at the time of the incident 

just like this “booking” a few seasons back 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Forever_blueco

[RandomGuy.]

A lot of folk on here needing to have a good look at themselves. 

Kamara was quite clearly racially abused and from that point onwards its just wrong to criticise any of his, or his team mates, actions.

[Insaintee]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

Of course I’m not, I never said Roofe received racist abuse form the Slavia player, I’m saying the racist abuse received by Roofe on his Instagram account is what prompted him to speak out after the game, screenshotting the abuse he had received.

I can’t fathom why you believe him highlighting this is unhelpful at all.

I'm suggesting that his own actions are perhaps more worth of scrutiny 

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

1 hour ago, gaz5 said:

You might want to try and read my post properly before getting up on your "I hate the old firm and everything they stand for" pedestal and attribute things to me which I've not said.

You seem to have ignored the bit in my post that you quoted that said "on here". As in, in this thread and this forum in general.

So yes, most Rangers (and Celtic) fans have spoken out against sectarianism, across the various threads, "on here".

If course that doesn't mean 'Most/All Old Firm fans". That would have been ridiculous, had I said it. But I didn't.

You're having an argument with yourself about a point no one made.


 

No rebuttal of my description of the Sisters, I note. "On here", or in real life, followers of either cheek are totally blind when it comes to the fact that by supporting them, they condone the behaviour and attitudes of not just the clubs, but the "tiny minority" that the clubs have never, and will never, challenge. Because the Sisters know their market.

With all due respect mate, that is a lot of rubbish. When I started supporting Rangers as a boy, it never once crossed my mind that I was ‘condoning’ anyone’s behaviour. I supported the football team, nothing else. Very weak argument.

[G51]

Some people clearly demonstrating here that they hate Rangers more than they hate racism, which is as unsurprising as it is pathetic.

These people are just as bad than the few Slavia fans who spent all day denying it even happened. Never want to see them posting about anti-racism/sectarianism again on here.

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

I'm suggesting that his own actions are perhaps more worth of scrutiny 

His own actions (getting sent off in a football match) are more worthy of scrutiny than pointing out the racist abuse he received? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Edited March 20, 2021 by AJF

[wastecoatwilly]

4 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

What punch? There is absolutely no evidence of a "punch" and given the lies slavia have spouted since full time its hard to believe anything they say

Slippy G did say he would stand toe to toe with Kamara plus he also said the player wasn't thinking straight we know something happened in the tunnel even if it was out of character for Kamara because of the racial slur.
My point was will Uefa treat the racial slur with a more severe punishment than a player getting punched.

[gaz5]

No rebuttal of my description of the Sisters, I note. "On here", or in real life, followers of either cheek are totally blind when it comes to the fact that by supporting them, they condone the behaviour and attitudes of not just the clubs, but the "tiny minority" that the clubs have never, and will never, challenge. Because the Sisters know their market.

Again, I'm not an old firm fan.

Do I think the old firm clubs have played to the lowest common denominator, to decreasing extents, for my whole lifetime? For the most part yes.

Do I think things are different now then they were in the 80's and both clubs have at least tried to move forward? Yes, I do.

Do I think smaller proportions of their respective fanbases are bigots now than what I witnessed in the 80's? Yes, I do.

So does that mean all Rangers and Celtic fans are automatically bigots just because they support Rangers or Celtic?

Of course it bloody doesn't, that's a stupid stance to have.

Does it mean no old firm fan can ever speak out against racism because some of their fellow fans are bigots?

Again, of course it doesn't, that's also a stupid position to take.

By your logic, because some fucked up Kilmarnock fan sent a racist letter to Alex Dyer while he was manager, no Kilmarnock fan has the right to ever speak out against racism, or any other form of discrimination, because some other Kilmarnock fan is a bawbag?

No, of course not.

Bawbaggerry isn't a character trait based on the football team you support.

I get your argument, that there are some old firm fans who are hypocritical in the extreme in calling out discrimination when they themselves are happy to pedal it in a different form.

And I would hope anyone who knows them is calling them out on that.

But to take a position where no old firm fan has the right to speak out just by virtue of being an old firm fan, or further to intimate they actually condone discrimination themselves just by virtue of being an old firm fan, is bonkers and doesn't help stamp any of it out.

[RandomGuy.]

22 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

I'm suggesting that his own actions are perhaps more worth of scrutiny 

So you'd rather people who suffer racist abuse stay quiet over it?

You're down the rabbit hole here trying to do anything but take Rangers side in this. Your attitude is absolutely one of the reasons racism can survive on social media yet I'd bet money you screech about all Rangers fans supporting sectarianism every week.

[wastecoatwilly]

24 minutes ago, AJF said:

His own actions (getting sent off in a football match) are more worthy of scrutiny than pointing out the racist abuse he received? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Uefa will look at the whole package of the game and what happened after, it's clear that rangers lost their discipline. 

[AJF]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Uefa will look at the whole package of the game and what happened after, it's clear that rangers lost their discipline. 

Yes, but I do not see his point whatsoever. He is claiming that Kemar Roofe highlighting the racist abuse he received on Instagram was not helpful... how?

Edited March 20, 2021 by AJF