Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Elixir]

16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What percentage of people are actually wearing masks properly and are taking them off and cleaning them correctly? It's basically futile to mandate it if most people are not doing it correctly which is why WHO recommended against them in the pandemic protocols that got discarded pretty much everywhere other than Sweden. The false sense of security they provide to a large percentage of people wearing them under their nose for comfort reasons can cancel out any net benefits. 

This is pretty much the crux of the issue. You simply have to look at the data from the US states that imposed them and those that didn't to see any benefit is negligible at best at a population level. At worst they are a placebo that meant people kept their distance less.

[Savage Henry]

10 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Is JTS98 trolling?

If so he has a fair few on here biting.

In fairness, it doesn’t seem that hard to raise the ire of anti-maskers.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Elixir said:

This is pretty much the crux of the issue. You simply have to look at the data from the US states that imposed them and those that didn't to see any benefit is negligible at best at a population level. At worst they are a placebo that meant people kept their distance less.

The poster children of no rules, Florida and Texas, are now going rampant, about a third of new cases in America. Hospitalisation up 40% in a week.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/23/austin-stage4-covid-19-masks/

Edited July 25, 2021 by welshbairn

[invergowrie arab]

15 hours ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Been at the full spectrum today and can assure all masks are as good as done in Dundee.

Soft play with the wee lass, coffee shop, supermarket, junior game and boozer. Barely a mask in sight.

I did all the same yesterday apart from soft play.

Obviously no masks at the football as we were all outside but as for the rest are you are talking pish.

[Thereisalight..]

Got to laugh at people deeming folk anti maskers because they realise it's all just the illusion of "being safe". Most masks out there are just a tiny bit better than useless. I wear one in shops etc to keep up with the pantomime but at the football etc they're rightly binned. Some sancatmonious posters really making an appearance today 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Thereisalight..

[TheScarf]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I think they're permanent unfortunately, and it's about traffic calming and semi pedestrianisation rather than Covid I believe. They're fucking horrible.

Yeah I’ve heard they’re going to be permanent too.  Castle street is a joke now.

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

You can dress it up any way you want, but you are arguing here for a segregated society and/or forced medical treatment.

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.

This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.

Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

[mizfit]

The poster children of no rules, Florida and Texas, are now going rampant, about a third of new cases in America. Hospitalisation up 40% in a week.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/23/austin-stage4-covid-19-masks/

Actually, I was reading that with Texas.
I’ve a feeling this is the worldwide third wave. We in Scotland have maybe got lucky and had ours in advance of everywhere else. Even then, we’ve done not bad in the third wave.

[Michael W]

"Only the diseased people will have freedoms while the rest are forced out" 

Yikes. 

[superbigal]

I'll stick my head above the parapet again.

Along with my factual reporting I do I am for sanctions against those that choose to be non vaccinated.
So if the easiest way is vaccine ID then count me in.

I am also for all sanctions to be lifted immediately for those with at least 1 vaccine dose.


Kids and medical exemption apart of course

[Bairnardo]

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.
You say it like it's a bad thing.
If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.
This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.
Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

Absolute w****r.

I just thought you were someone who thought they were much cleverer than everyone else, but theres also a horrible streak to it too apparently.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

[Honest_Man#1]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.

This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.

Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

“I absolutely do want a segregated society” and “the diseased people” is utterly wild stuff. Genuine propaganda language in this day and age.

Oh, and with regards to the bolded bit... 

10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Absolute w****r.

I just thought you were someone who thought they were much cleverer than everyone else, but theres also a horrible streak to it too apparently.

Genuinely one of the worst c***s on here. The smugness and condescension is bad enough (especially when accompanied by being wrong), but some of the above is appalling.

[mizfit]

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

There’s a girl at my work who became radicalised for lack of a better word in December, claiming the vaccines were dead babies programmed to stop us having children.

Her social media the last few days as she’s slowly realised her opinion is in the minority and she’s one of the few to reject the vaccine and is likely to be banned from venues etc if passports come in has been particularly fun.

[Bairnardo]

Just as a wee aside, what was the expectation of vaccine takeup prior to the start of the program?

I ask, because we have definitely wildly exceeded it. Thats been acknowledged but I dont know the numbers the govt were assuming. 

So how would we have ever exited this, if take up was say, 70%?

I have also never seen an arguement of how vaccine passports keep us safe, given that transmission of, and catching of, the virus are both still possible when vaccinated. 

[Michael W]

10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

The vaccines work and the majority of the population have had them. The people who are vaccinated are therefore protected and those that refuse? They're on their own. 

We don't need them. And the suggestion of them being required is feeding the fears of people who are utterly terrified at the thought of being in proximity to an unvaccinated person, even where this person is double vaccinated. 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Just as a wee aside, what was the expectation of vaccine takeup prior to the start of the program?

I ask, because we have definitely wildly exceeded it. Thats been acknowledged but I dont know the numbers the govt were assuming. 

So how would we have ever exited this, if take up was say, 70%?

I have also never seen an arguement of how vaccine passports keep us safe, given that transmission of, and catching of, the virus are both still possible when vaccinated. 

Yes they’re still possible.  But significantly less likely.

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

I have.

[invergowrie arab]

13 minutes ago, Michael W said:

The vaccines work and the majority of the population have had them. The people who are vaccinated are therefore protected and those that refuse? They're on their own. 

We don't need them. And the suggestion of them being required is feeding the fears of people who are utterly terrified at the thought of being in proximity to an unvaccinated person, even where this person is double vaccinated. 

People that are double vaccinated aren't fully protected. 

Vaccines work on a population level, they work on a protecting health services level and they work on a "more than good enough to get us back to normal living" level.

However, anyone who chooses not to take up a vaccination they can safely receive deserves a hefty boot in the balls never mind not being able to go to a nightclub. 

[Bairnardo]

People that are double vaccinated aren't fully protected. 
Vaccines work on a population level, they work on a protecting health services level and they work on a "more than good enough to get us back to normal living" level.
However, anyone who chooses not to take up a vaccination they can safely receive deserves a hefty boot in the balls never mind not being able to go to a nightclub. 

What if the small risk of getting the vaccine outweighs the risk to that person of covid?

The JVCI are talking in those terms for kids. I seen someone on tv the other day saying it would wrong to vaccinate children purely for the benefit of others. Why cant young adults make that call for themselves too?

Its a bit selfish IMO, but its certianly not "freeze them out of society" selfish, and certainly shouldnt be used as a reason to set a precedent for mandatory vaccination and health monitoring.