An Idiot's Guide to the West of Scotland Football League?!

[glensmad]

No there wasn't, it was a vote by email.

Unless you mean the East and North Regions voted by video conference ? The West Region certainly didn't.

[bluearmyfaction]

10 hours ago, curzonmid said:

Mate it's junior football with a fancy new name.

Same teams,  same people involved,  same players,  fans still referring to it as the juniors,  junior cup still on go,  in time same officials running it.

You'll be lucky if it ever really changes club wise maybe one or two clubs will move up in ten year period. 

Active junior forum on the go here and active junior social media on twitter and a very healthy appreciation of junior football on facebook check them out! 

I think the big change is that the chances of someone doing a Kelty are probably fairly decent.  It won't take much money to take someone from the WoS into the SPFL.  E.g. Irvine, population 30,000 or so, easily big enough to host League football and already with a foundation level of fans on which to build.  More of an incentive than just to dominate the Junior game.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, ArabAuslander said:

With the greatest respect to you Andy, I don't think that's accurate, the teams in the WoS Superleague/Premier Division/Premiership (delete as appropriate) would be comfortable in the English Step 2/3 (tier 6/7) at worst.

Kelty Hearts played Solihull Moors recently in the Tunnock Caramel Wafer Cup^TM, both fielding their best XI whilst both heading their respective Tier 5 leagues. Kelty were very unfortunate not to win the game (0-0 draw and Solihull won on pens), that same Kelty side were completely outclassed by Auchinleck Talbot now of the WoS a few weeks prior in the live BBC Scottish Cup tie.

I'm sure there will be a WoS Groundhop for you to come to sometime next season to judge for yourself.

That's a very limited source for comparison either way isn't it?

Have you seen much football in the English pyramid?

[Ray Patterson]

6 hours ago, Dev said:

That's a very limited source for comparison either way isn't it?

Have you seen much football in the English pyramid?

It is a limited pool to extrapolate that data from, but I think claiming that Talbot, Pollok and Bankies would be capable in the English Tier 7 isn't a controversial motion. The average crowd in 2018-19 of the Southern League Premier South was 338, probably in line with the West Premier.

Andy initially claimed that the WoS would hope to be able to compete with Tier 8/9 in England.

Edited May 7, 2020 by ArabAuslander

[EdinburghBlue]

Surely it's unthinkable that a governing body in Scottish football couldn't organize a vote and communicate the results competently.

Surely the result should have been announced before voting was complete?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

5 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

It is a limited pool to extrapolate that data from, but I think claiming that Talbot, Pollok and Bankies would be capable in the English Tier 7 isn't a controversial motion. The average crowd in 2018-19 of the Southern League Premier South was 338, probably in line with the West Premier.

Andy initially claimed that the WoS would hope to be able to compete with Tier 8/9 in England.

I think the best in the Juniors would be competitive with the teams at Conference North/South but the gap between Auchinleck and, say, Greenock is far greater than the gap between that level and the league below in England. There's bigger gaps in quality within leagues in Scotland compared to England. The top teams in the equivalent level in Scotland could match their English counterparts but the teams at the bottom: probably not so much

[GordonS]

22 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Do you see EK, Cumbernauld Colts or Glasgow BSC dropping down to the WoSL? At least 9 or 10 of the 16 clubs in the LL by 2030 will have a West Coast connection. It will be a Westie League within a decade.

You've got such a short memory.

[Jacksgranda]

18 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

No what I mean is here come some more Juniors haters to blindly back you up.

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, glensmad said:

13 hours ago, Marten said:

I know, I mixed up my terminology here, there was a virtual meeting of the clubs that decided it.

No there wasn't, it was a vote by email.

Email,eh? 

What could possibly go wrong.

[bluearmyfaction]

53 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I think the best in the Juniors would be competitive with the teams at Conference North/South but the gap between Auchinleck and, say, Greenock is far greater than the gap between that level and the league below in England. There's bigger gaps in quality within leagues in Scotland compared to England. The top teams in the equivalent level in Scotland could match their English counterparts but the teams at the bottom: probably not so much

Celtic and Rangers are basically Man U/Man City in terms of crowds, then Hibs, Hearts, and Aberdeen are on a par with Swansea and Reading, and Kilmarnock are Wycombe Wanderers.  Very sharp drop-off.  And that's taking into account big crowds for a minimum of four Old Firm visits.

[craigkillie]

There's a minimum of three Old Firm visits, not four.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

Map of all the clubs: 

https://wosfl.co.uk/your-local-club/

[Cyclizine]

3 minutes ago, curzonmid said:

What kind of football supporter in a small country like scotland has no idea about a grade of football that has been around for over 125 years i mean come on!  Even if you don't you'll get far better answers to it all elsewhere than the stuff you'll get on this Infamously poor for fact website. 

Really eyes take a special type of idiot. 

u ok hún?

Edited May 7, 2020 by Cyclizine

[Dev]

8 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

It is a limited pool to extrapolate that data from, but I think claiming that Talbot, Pollok and Bankies would be capable in the English Tier 7 isn't a controversial motion. The average crowd in 2018-19 of the Southern League Premier South was 338, probably in line with the West Premier.

Andy initially claimed that the WoS would hope to be able to compete with Tier 8/9 in England.

There's sometimes confusion about the Tiers in the English set-up. Some call The Premier League Tier 1 while some others start at the National League top division as Tier 1.  The Non-League Matters web site uses the National League top division as Tier 1 and many non-league followers in England go with that. That's what I had in mind. Apologies.  You and Andy are using the Premier League as Tier 1.

It's not easy to compare the Scottish non-leagues with those in England. Obviously, that's partly because they don't play league matches against each other but also because there is such a wide range of clubs and standards in the WoS's 67 clubs  and the EoS's 50 clubs so maybe you are both right?

You're saying Southern Premier standard, and Andy's saying Southern League Division One/Combined Counties top division standard.

I'd guess that the very top teams in the new WoS Premier Division would be close to National League North/South standard as many posters here seem to expect some to move up to the SPFL quite quickly. Maybe the very top of the Lowland League could make the same case.

Again guesses but maybe some of the rest of the WoS Premier clubs would be about  Southern Premier standard as might some in the Lowland and EoS Premier Division. Hard to know.

Maybe if the Highland League and the Lowland pyramid leagues kept and published official attendance figures that could give further clues. Most of the English pyramid leagues record the official attendance figures - maybe all down to the likes of the Combined Counties, Northern, etc. That would be an interesting comparison, at least to me!

Edited May 7, 2020 by Dev
.

[The Mantis]

13 minutes ago, Dev said:

There's sometimes confusion about the Tiers in the English set-up. Some call The Premier League Tier 1 while some others start at the National League top division as Tier 1.  The Non-League Matters web site uses the National League top division as Tier 1 and many non-league followers in England go with that. That's what I had in mind. Apologies.  You and Andy are using the Premier League as Tier 1.

 

Tier 5 is usually called Step 1.

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Dev said:

There's sometimes confusion about the Tiers in the English set-up. Some call The Premier League Tier 1 while some others start at the National League top division as Tier 1.  The Non-League Matters web site uses the National League top division as Tier 1 and many non-league followers in England go with that. That's what I had in mind. Apologies.  You and Andy are using the Premier League as Tier 1.

It's not easy to compare the Scottish non-leagues with those in England. Obviously, that's partly because they don't play league matches against each other but also because there is such a wide range of clubs and standards in the WoS's 67 clubs  and the EoS's 50 clubs so maybe you are both right?

You're saying Southern Premier standard, and Andy's saying Southern League Division One/Combined Counties top division standard.

I'd guess that the very top teams in the new WoS Premier Division would be close to National League North/South standard as many posters here seem to expect some to move up to the SPFL quite quickly. Maybe the very top of the Lowland League could make the same case.

Again guesses but maybe some of the rest of the WoS Premier clubs would be about  Southern Premier standard as might some in the Lowland and EoS Premier Division. Hard to know.

Maybe if the Highland League and the Lowland pyramid leagues kept and published official attendance figures that could give further clues. Most of the English pyramid leagues record the official attendance figures - maybe all down to the likes of the Combined Counties, Northern, etc. That would be an interesting comparison, at least to me!

This is why most people when talking about the non-league in England refer to "Steps" rather than "Tiers".

Which is something I would like to see happen up here now that there are going to more levels. It seems a bit daft talking about Tier 6 at a time that the SPFL are in dicussions over going to a 3 division set up meaning a tier would get lost from that restructuring.

Step 1 = Highland / Lowland League

Step 2 = EoS Premier / SoSFL / WoS Premier

Step 3 = EoS First Division Conferences / WoS First Division Conferences

[Burnieman]

Curzonmid is the latest troll  id to join p&b, mask really slipped with some of his posts yesterday.[emoji4]

Traffordab now.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

There's sometimes confusion about the Tiers in the English set-up. Some call The Premier League Tier 1 while some others start at the National League top division as Tier 1.  The Non-League Matters web site uses the National League top division as Tier 1 and many non-league followers in England go with that. That's what I had in mind. Apologies.  You and Andy are using the Premier League as Tier 1.

It's not easy to compare the Scottish non-leagues with those in England. Obviously, that's partly because they don't play league matches against each other but also because there is such a wide range of clubs and standards in the WoS's 67 clubs  and the EoS's 50 clubs so maybe you are both right?

You're saying Southern Premier standard, and Andy's saying Southern League Division One/Combined Counties top division standard.

I'd guess that the very top teams in the new WoS Premier Division would be close to National League North/South standard as many posters here seem to expect some to move up to the SPFL quite quickly. Maybe the very top of the Lowland League could make the same case.

Again guesses but maybe some of the rest of the WoS Premier clubs would be about  Southern Premier standard as might some in the Lowland and EoS Premier Division. Hard to know.

Maybe if the Highland League and the Lowland pyramid leagues kept and published official attendance figures that could give further clues. Most of the English pyramid leagues record the official attendance figures - maybe all down to the likes of the Combined Counties, Northern, etc. That would be an interesting comparison, at least to me!

With the amount of non-league football I've seen on both sides of the border, the WOS Premier clubs are definitely better than Southern League Division One / Combined Counties standard. They're also considerably better attended. It's always a difficult comparison, but I think most WOS Premier clubs would be roughly National League North/South standard.

[Dev]

56 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

This is why most people when talking about the non-league in England refer to "Steps" rather than "Tiers".

Which is something I would like to see happen up here now that there are going to more levels. It seems a bit daft talking about Tier 6 at a time that the SPFL are in dicussions over going to a 3 division set up meaning a tier would get lost from that restructuring.

Step 1 = Highland / Lowland League

Step 2 = EoS Premier / SoSFL / WoS Premier

Step 3 = EoS First Division Conferences / WoS First Division Conferences

As you and The Mantis say this would help.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, gogsy said:

Curzonmid is the latest troll  id to join p&b, mask really slipped with some of his posts yesterday.

theBairn57, cherrywhite, holstein, Caliy, Curzonmid and now traffordab.   Oh, and Toots as well.