Cowden Cowboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said: I refer you to @jimbaxters post. I am not a fan of any club in the WOS. My point mirrors jb's. League champions shouldn't have to enter a dog fight to earn their reward. That’s fine if there is one league and one champion - but when there are multiple leagues then you can justify a further ‘dog fight’ to establish who actually is the ‘top dog’ - the Supreme Champion to use more Crufts speak. Indeed in a multi league feeder system several clubs in one league may be better teams than the champions in the others 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 3 hours ago, jimbaxters said: The system is a bottleneck, the reality has been different for the reasons you have listed. Any pyramid where licensed champions don't automatically get promotion is flawed. The play offs which exist to get into the LL and to get into Scottish League Two are an embarrassment. Add to that the fact that Club 42 don't go straight through the trapdoor and its a minter for the "Scottish Football Pyramid" It’s hardly an embarrassment - there was no promotion to Tier 4 and the SPFL though gave that concession for nothing in return. Why should the SPFL make another concession - what’s in it for them. It also doesn’t seem that all the Tier 5 clubs that have won promotion are advocating that the SPFL change the current arrangement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 4 hours ago, jimbaxters said: The system is a bottleneck, the reality has been different for the reasons you have listed. The system is therefore not a bottleneck for the reasons already set out. Which EoS or SoS team are ever likely to be banging their heads endlessly against a glass ceiling from this stage onwards? I'm not seeing any at all - particularly with more clubs likely to enter both leagues from above in the near future. And once the West region finally catches up in terms of licensing, the handful of clubs similar to Bonnyrigg, Linlithgow etc. will progress upwards at a pace determined by merit. The idea that there will be three crack outfits battering down the door to the LL each season if only for the cruel and unfair play-off is a fantasy. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said: I refer you to @jimbaxters post. I am not a fan of any club in the WOS. My point mirrors jb's. League champions shouldn't have to enter a dog fight to earn their reward. The reward for winning a league title is the trophy and status of champions. They are not being denied that by having to demonstrate their worth to move from a local tier to a regional tier of competition, and in turn from a regional to a national tier. It's bizarre that Scottish football has developed this fixation about 'ventilation' and harrumphing about play-offs, when the end result is that the best equipped teams play at their appropriate level and those that aren't equipped do not get caught miles out of their depth by a promotion that isn't appropriate. The only issue I'd raise is that licensing should have been made compulsory and the terms tightened much, much sooner - to stop the likes of Cove and Edinburgh City pushing well above the tier that their overall club structure reflected. That would have rewarded more sustainable development by clubs from the traditional non-league, even if the replacement rate is smaller. Edited April 18 by vikingTON -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josuke Higashikata Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, virginton said: MWhich EoS or SoS team are ever likely to be banging their heads endlessly against a glass ceiling from this stage onwards? I'm not seeing any at all… Abbey Vale last season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi1977 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 12 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Come on mate, I've been nice to the WOS recently, Dalbeattie or Creetown might give Broxie the Bear a game, maybe. All Tier 6's tolgether as one. Crossed my mind to 'red dot' you, but we've discussed that. Badger!! Broxie the Badger!! Sheeesh! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 12 hours ago, Josuke Higashikata said: Abbey Vale last season? Abbey Vale are 4th this season with no chance of promotion. A completely competent team at their existing level - not one that has reached a 'bottleneck' from progressing at all. They've haven't lost out on shipping 200 goals in a single Lowland League season, just because a handful of pyramid anoraks insist that All Champions Must Be Promoted. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 7 hours ago, virginton said: Abbey Vale are 4th this season with no chance of promotion. A completely competent team at their existing level - not one that has reached a 'bottleneck' from progressing at all. They've haven't lost out on shipping 200 goals in a single Lowland League season, just because a handful of pyramid anoraks insist that All Champions Must Be Promoted. Anoraks are nothing to do with it. It's basic, sporting common sense that dictates that any team finishing top of their league and that league is part of a pyramid should expect to gain promotion to the next rung of that pyramid. Not sure what isn't making sense in that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) 19 hours ago, jimbaxters said: Anoraks are nothing to do with it. It's basic, sporting common sense that dictates that any team finishing top of their league and that league is part of a pyramid should expect to gain promotion to the next rung of that pyramid. Not sure what isn't making sense in that. Every team that finishes top of their league should have the opportunity to achieve promotion if they meet the required standards to progress. That's a functioning pyramid structure and already have that in place. There's absolutely no reason why automatic promotion should be granted for winning a league. It doesn't actually strengthen the quality of the levels above if the 'best' from a regional tier comes up every other season and stinks the place out reliably. You're appealing to 'common sense' because there's no other reason to justify your personal preference; having already abandoned the claim that a 'bottleneck' exists in the current structure. Edited April 20 by vikingTON -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 minutes ago, virginton said: Every team that finishes top of their league should have the opportunity to achieve promotion if they meet the required standards to progress. That's a functioning pyramid structure and already have that in place. There's absolutely no reason why automatic promotion should be granted for winning a league. It doesn't actually strengthen the quality of the levels above if the 'best' from a regional tier comes up every other season and stinks the place out reliably. You're appealing to 'common sense' because there's no other reason to justify your personal preference; having already abandoned the claim that a 'bottleneck' exists in the current structure. A few seasons ago Arbroath were close to winning the Championship. If they had won it should they have been denied promtion because they would have absolutely stunk the top league out 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, virginton said: Every team that finishes top of their league already has the opportunity to achieve promotion if they meet the required standards to progress. That's a functioning pyramid structure. There's absolutely no reason why they should be granted automatic promotion for winning a league. It doesn't actually strengthen the quality of the levels above if the 'best' from a regional tier comes up every other season and stinks the place out reliably. You're appealing to 'common sense' because there's no other reason to justify your personal preference; having already abandoned the claim that a 'bottleneck' exists in the current structure. Must be good in your world, a place where you are always correct, always the one who's viewpoint and opinion is the justifiable one. Just cause it's what you think and believe doesn't make it correct. No-one is right all the time. Oh and I still reside in the South West of Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANKIEBILL Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) OK if we can all put virginton on ignore that would be nice. They cnuts didn't even have the decency to Cuff Airdire so why should we waste breath on arguing on the head of a pin with him. What I'm concerned about - and hopefully others are too. Is that one of the most realistic licenced title contenders now have to play 8 games in space of 17 days to have a tilt at the league and that's not allowing for postponements. However it came about - and Junior Cup has played a factor here - that's surely not an acceptable situation to have come to. Its a fail whatever way you look at it. This is self-evidently not about Clydebank as we had plenty of time to play games going out early ish in cups and now being in a 4 week hiatus. It does have to be looked at - in interests of sporting integrity if nothing else. The league must be of paramount importance or its back to the old days we go. Edited April 20 by BANKIEBILL Autocorrect shite 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 On 18/04/2024 at 17:27, Cowden Cowboy said: It’s hardly an embarrassment - there was no promotion to Tier 4 and the SPFL though gave that concession for nothing in return. Why should the SPFL make another concession - what’s in it for them. It also doesn’t seem that all the Tier 5 clubs that have won promotion are advocating that the SPFL change the current arrangement. "What's in it for them". This attitude in Scottish football is at the heart of what's been wrong with the game for decades. It's not confined to the SL Div.2. Time for change at the very top i.e. SFA to bring in people who put football first. The LL uses the promotion issue (i.e. using the SL relegation constraint) as a way to justify keeping relegations/acceptance of good clubs from below fully knowing that their case is shot full of holes. The LL (and the SL) also know that they are on a loser once enough clubs who are no longer tied to the "old" ways change leagues and stop the nonsense i.e. unless the SFA finally steps in. This will affect the LL first though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANKIEBILL Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 3 minutes ago, BANKIEBILL said: OK if we can all put virginton on ignore that would be nice. They cnuts didn't even have the decency to Cuff Airdire so why should we waste breath on arguing on the head of a pin with him. What I'm concerned about - and hopefully others are too. Is that one of the most realistic licenced title contenders now have to play 8 games in space of 17 days to have a tilt at the league and that's not allowing for postponements. However it came about - and Junior Cup has played a factor here - that's surely not an acceptable situation to have come to. Its a fail whatever way you look at it. This is self-evidently not about Clydebank as we had plenty of time to play games going out early ish in cups and now being in a 4 week hiatus. It does have to be looked at - in interests of sporting integrity if nothing else. The league must be of paramount importance or its back to the old days we go. My apologies to @virginton... the edit won't allow me to correct the autocorrect. No aspertions were meant 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANKIEBILL Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, BANKIEBILL said: My apologies to @virginton... the edit won't allow me to correct the autocorrect. No aspertions were meant Hmmm there appears to be no way round this. I @ you and it still changed it. Not deliberate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 8 minutes ago, BANKIEBILL said: OK if we can all put virginton on ignore that would be nice. They cnuts didn't even have the decency to Cuff Airdire so why should we waste breath on arguing on the head of a pin with him. What I'm concerned about - and hopefully others are too. Is that one of the most realistic licenced title contenders now have to play 8 games in space of 17 days to have a tilt at the league and that's not allowing for postponements. However it came about - and Junior Cup has played a factor here - that's surely not an acceptable situation to have come to. Its a fail whatever way you look at it. This is self-evidently not about Clydebank as we had plenty of time to play games going out early ish in cups and now being in a 4 week hiatus. It does have to be looked at - in interests of sporting integrity if nothing else. The league must be of paramount importance or its back to the old days we go. For the sake of the return to two-legged semis there's been 8 Premier games played on a Saturday. Teams left idle, games squeezed into midweek. All so that the SJFA could take the bulk of the gate money and pay it back as prize money. I still find it surprising they were able to get away it when every other cup competition is cutting out replays and even extra-time in a lot of cases. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANKIEBILL Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: For the sake of the return to two-legged semis there's been 8 Premier games played on a Saturday. Teams left idle, games squeezed into midweek. All so that the SJFA could take the bulk of the gate money and pay it back as prize money. I still find it surprising they were able to get away it when every other cup competition is cutting out replays and even extra-time in a lot of cases. They were allowed to do it. At the clear detriment of a club's title chances 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 45 minutes ago, BANKIEBILL said: Hmmm there appears to be no way round this. I @ you and it still changed it. Not deliberate aye right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Aw f**k 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANKIEBILL Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, Shanner said: aye right. It's true ... try it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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