Scottish Infrastructure

[GordonS]

Some pretty big implications for transport infrastructure in the new SNP-Green deal.

 

[Michael W]

3 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Anybody got an opinion as to Scotrail’s likely performance once properly under control of SG? 

Or any bright ideas for passing on to Graeme Dey?  (who? The Minister for Transport; and yes, I had to Google to find him)

Nationalisation makes absolutely no difference to the service as that's set by the SG whether run by a private company or not. The service level is within the agreement and the operator (SG or otherwise) merely goes with what it's told to do. 

Similarly, the SG can't stop signals failing or track defects in the same way Abellio can't. The franchise operator gets 3% of the ticket sales so the tickets so pricing differences will be minimal even if the SG did remove this aspect. They might want to keep it for examole to fund additional trains or open new stations etc. 

Looks like the service is going to start with a reduced timetable compared with the old normal one. 

Be interesting to see if their twitter content becomes less aggressive, though.

 

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Do Americans ever change their minds after seeing public transport when they take holidays to Europe?

No, because they generally won’t take it on holiday either, and they do, it’s likely they’ll ride a bus in Rome or Paris and have their wallets nicked! The few tourists that will genuinely use mass transit on vacation are generally already of a mindset that mass transit isn’t bad, but there is far to few of them to make any change. Everyone else simply bleets for more roads.

The exception here is use of subways, which are viewed as some exception to the mass transit is evil rule. Of course, the tourists are still often concerned the subways are crime ridden hellholes like their image of the New York subways from old Charles Bronson movies, so it’s a hesitant endorsement at best. Even so, after a bit of use and seeing the whole thing is normal and safe, they still would never consider doing it at home.

[scottsdad]

15 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Off peak adult return between Falkirk and Glasgow is £11.40, and for each adult up to four kids aged 5 to 15 can travel for £1 return each. So for a family of four it would be £24.80. Under 5s travel free.

I think it should be cheaper than that, and that petrol and parking should be dearer. Train fares have risen above inflation and a little above average wages over the past 10 years, but petrol hasn't increased in price at all. And I really, really don't intend to be cheeky when I say this so please don't take it that way, but I always wonder how people can have enough money to own and run a car, and to go shopping in Glasgow city centre on a Saturday, but not have the extra tenner for the train. It's a free country, I don't know your circumstances and I'm not making any judgements, I'm just talking generally.

If you drive to the park and ride at Croy the cost for a family of four is just £12.20. That's because the Glasgow-Edinburgh line through Falkirk High is the most expensive in Scotland, but trains inside the SPT area are much cheaper. If you live in or near the boundary that's worth thinking about. An adult return from Croy to Ayr is only £13.20. 

All fair enough (though my boy is now classed as an adult). However it remains cheaper and faster and more comfortable (and no masks) to take the car. 

[101]

50 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I see one of the proposals in the SNP-Green cooperation document is a feasibility study into extending the railway from Dyce to Ellon, and possibly further to Peterhead or Fraserburgh.

Strange to not see (as far as I can tell) the Dunfermline to Alloa route being on their pick list.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

22 minutes ago, 101 said:

Strange to not see (as far as I can tell) the Dunfermline to Alloa route being on their pick list.

It's best keeping Valleyfield cut off from the rest of society.

[GNU_Linux]

Strange to not see (as far as I can tell) the Dunfermline to Alloa route being on their pick list.

Expanding the Waverley line to Carlisle via Hawick not present either.

[ICTChris]

Forgive my ignorance but active transport means cycling and walking?

The Department of Transport have a rolling survey of journey methods that they've been doing for many, many years - I think they might have been doing since before the Second World War.  This records journeys taken by bike and foot, car, train etc.   In 1950 25% of all journeys in the UK were made by bicycle.  By the time you get to today the number is so low it is unmeasurable.  It's essentially 0%.  I don't know what the percentage of walking is but I'd imagine it's fairly similar.  People may go out for walks, especially since lockdown, but they don't really walk anywhere.

The barriers to increasing active transport are that people no longer live near their place of work and affordable/desirable homes are no longer near where people work, generally.  My previous workplace was close to the centre of Edinburgh and the average property price in that area is currently more than £500,000.  People commuted in from all over Central Scotland, same as the place I work now and most places in Edinburgh.  Nobody can walk to work or cycle to work in those circumstances.  People also don't walk or cycle for shopping or entertainment - I am in an inner suburb of Edinburgh now (if that makes sense) but I couldn't walk to do a weekly shop the way my parents or grandparents could.  People who live in the new build estates on the outskirts of everywhere have even worse problems doing that, they are miles away from anywhere.

There is also a cultural thing about people not wanting to take public transport - my family are  in a different position as my wife doesn't drive so has to use buses etc and doesn't mind it.  A lot of people we know would never, ever, ever go on public transport.  Maybe they'd get a train into Edinburgh or Glasgow for a night out but they'd never dream of taking their kid on the bus somewhere.  "I don't do buses" is a very common refrain I've heard.  Combine that with the extra inconvenience and it's a hard ask to get people into new habits.  The only way to do it would be to just go in two footed, impose higher taxes on cars, fuel, parking spaces at work etc but that would be massively unpopular.  

Edited August 20, 2021 by ICTChris
Overestimated the number of journeys made by bike in 1950.

[ICTChris]

However, I'm pretty sure a lot of cities in the Netherlands used to be car-firiendly and they changed massively.  So much so, that the Prime Minister cycled to see the King to offer his resignation earlier this year

 

So there is hope.

 

[ajwffc]

5 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Anybody got an opinion as to Scotrail’s likely performance once properly under control of SG? 

Or any bright ideas for passing on to Graeme Dey?  (who? The Minister for Transport; and yes, I had to Google to find him)

I would say no change to what we see 

1 hour ago, Big Fifer said:

5 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Anybody got an opinion as to Scotrail’s likely performance once properly under control of SG? 
Or any bright ideas for passing on to Graeme Dey?  (who? The Minister for Transport; and yes, I had to Google to find him)

I struggle to see how it'll be any different. Same staff, same management (though likely reshuffled), same unions. Unless Abellio have been taking massive profits that I'm not aware of that can be immediately thrown back into the company/infrastructure/staff I wouldn't hold my breath for much change.

I don't think Abellio have ever made any money form Scotrail ( they lost £64.5m last year and £11m the year before).

54 minutes ago, 101 said:

Strange to not see (as far as I can tell) the Dunfermline to Alloa route being on their pick list.

As far as I know it is already in the pipeline so might not be added to the plans. 

[Torpar]

9 hours ago, doulikefish said:

I took the Greyhound bus from Austin to San Antonio as I fancied doing a a bit of touristy stuff and decided to spend a weekend there.When I told some work colleagues what I was doing they were in utter amazement that I had even considered using public transport and we're convinced that I would be raped kidnapped and murdered as only Mexican drug types used public transport.People were volunteering to drive me/lend me there cars they were genuinely concerned.Obviously none of them had ever used a bus but they all had heard stories.

The bus was great free hot drinks and pretty good wifi would recommend to anyone 

Should have told them don't worry, it's not Canada ... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean

I've taken the Greyhound a couple of times here, first time was when my work permit was about to expire and I had to leave the country and come back over a border check point to get my work permit renewed. I booked a weekend in Buffalo, normally the route would take you over the border at Fort Erie and right into Buffalo, the driver decided it would be "quicker" to cross at Niagara Falls, the journey took 2 hours longer, on the way back I held up the whole bus waiting on getting my work permit renewed as the Canadian border guard had to wait until the hour until they could log into a computer to print my new permit. Driver said he appreciated getting a paid break while he waited on me.  

Second time I took The Greyhound was to Sudbury on my way to Manitoulin Island, the first stop after Downtown Toronto a guy got on with NS (Native Syndicate) tattooed on his face and hands, I silently hoped he wouldn't sit in the seat next to me, he didn't, instead a fat white guy got on at Parry Sound and sat next to me because and I quote "you're skinny" and I wished the gang member had sat next to me. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Torpar

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I see one of the proposals in the SNP-Green cooperation document is a feasibility study into extending the railway from Dyce to Ellon, and possibly further to Peterhead or Fraserburgh.

They should try extending it a bit closer to the fucking airport terminal first.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

It's best keeping Valleyfield cut off from the rest of society.

That and there's the small matter of having to do a reverse at Dunfermline to be able to reach Edinburgh from Alloa and vice versa. The Alloa to Dunfermline line that would have been an absolute no brainer as a passenger line after Stirling to Alloa got reinstated was the Dunfermline Upper route via Oakley but unfortunately it got built over in central Dunfermline post-Miners strike.

[Torpar]

 would support knocking down all the Fife villages west of Cairneyhill (expect Culross) to facilitate a railway line or just do it without the railway line anyway

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, scottsdad said:

All fair enough (though my boy is now classed as an adult). However it remains cheaper and faster and more comfortable (and no masks) to take the car. 

If he has a Young Scot card he can get a third off rail fares: https://young.scot/get-informed/national/save-money-on-travel 

Climate change demands that we stop making these journeys by car. If not by choice, then don't be surprised when the government eventually gets its shit together and makes it impossible or prohibitively expensive.

[Cosmic Joe]

3 hours ago, Torpar said:

 would support knocking down all the Fife villages west of Cairneyhill (expect Culross) to facilitate a railway line or just do it without the railway line anyway

Why would you do that? 

[Caledonian1]

4 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

They should try extending it a bit closer to the fucking airport terminal first.

It used to be right next to the terminal but Aberdeen Airport, in their wisdom, moved theterminal to the other side of the runway.....genius

[tamthebam]

There's a rumour that the electrical supply infrastructure in the Kirkcaldy area might require upgrading

[Silvio Tattiescone]

8 hours ago, tamthebam said:

There's a rumour that the electrical supply infrastructure in the Kirkcaldy area might require upgrading

Raith to groundshare with East Fife for the rest of the season.

[strichener]

9 hours ago, tamthebam said:

There's a rumour that the electrical supply infrastructure in the Kirkcaldy area might be installed.

 

FTFY