New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Pollok mad]

51 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

What amounts to an election system ain't great, but its baby steps to what could see something more formal eventually. 

Ultimately though there isn't that much else you can do when most of the teams don't want to be semi pro so integrating the amateurs is nigh on impossible. I do think long term more leagues will be added to the WOSL or maybe further regionlised feeder leagues but as with everything pyramid related it will take years for anything substantial to happen.

[Burnieman]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Just posted on the Amateurs Thread:

Amateur to WoS progression

---

By Brad Bobley
13 minutes ago in Amateur Football

ATTENTION ALL CLUBS

Amateur clubs in the West of Scotland will soon have an opportunity to join the Scottish football pyramid after an agreement between the West of Scotland Football League (WoSFL) and the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA). The agreement means that when a vacancy arises for a club to join the West of Scotland Football League, perhaps due to the Premier Division champion club being promoted to the Lowland League, that the vacancy could be filled by an amateur club, from the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA), that satisfies all the necessary stadium and other criteria required to join the WoSFL. Any SAFA amateur club, based within the defined geographical boundary of the League, that wishes to apply for membership of the WoSFL will now be able to do so at any time via the wosfl.co.uk website. There, all the information will be available, including a copy of the stadium criteria clubs will be required to meet and the League constitution. Clubs will also be able to complete an online self-assessment form to start the process. A visit from a delegate of the WoSFL will highlight any aspect of the application that needs to be improved, including the stadium criteria and once the club has satisfied the requirements, they will be placed on an accredited list clubs eligible to join the League. When a vacancy arises, those clubs on the approved list will be invited to make a presentation to a panel made up of both the WoSFL and the SAFA to determine which club will fill the vacancy. The agreement also means that any youth club that wishes to become a member of the WoSFL must in the first instance, join their local SAFA League or Association. After they have been members of the Scottish Amateur FA for a season, they will then be eligible to apply to become an accredited club to join the WoSFL. SAFA President, Iain Cowden, said that this agreement was a positive step that allowed those progressive amateur clubs an opportunity to make the step into senior football, while allowing open dialogue with member clubs to assist them going forward. “This agreement is great news for all amateur clubs in the West of Scotland who may have ambitions of progressing into the pyramid system of Scottish Football whilst at the same time protecting the status of the Scottish Amateur FA in the West of Scotland, in that clubs out with our organisation who wish to join the pyramid system, must become a member of the Scottish Amateur FA before they can become eligible to apply to the West of Scotland League.” “This is an excellent opportunity for our clubs, and I believe that this is a blueprint that could be replicated elsewhere in Scotland for the benefit of our national game.” Matt Bamford, Chairman of the West of Scotland Football League agreed and stated that football is the winner from this agreement. “This agreement is a win/win for both the League and for amateur football. It allows clubs to achieve the minimum criteria for membership of the WoSFL so that they have everything in place when a vacancy arises.” “It also protects the amateur game and benefits not only progressive amateur clubs but also youth clubs with a defined pathway into senior football should they so desire.”

 

A complete load of nonsense.  If you're not a club (an existing youth club or a brand new entity for example) who has no intention of playing amateur but want to join the Pyramid/WoSFL, you have to first join the SAFA? madness. 

Edited March 5 by Burnieman

[Dev]

In theory this could affect SPFL Reserves or "B" teams too. 

Can see individual Amateur Leagues linking up with Pyramid leagues, particularly if they wish to be seen as the "top dog" in their patch.

Would it not make sense in the north e.g. Aberdeen Amateur League and the North Juniors League? 

[Burnieman]

15 minutes ago, Dev said:

In theory this could affect SPFL Reserves or "B" teams too. 

Can see individual Amateur Leagues linking up with Pyramid leagues, particularly if they wish to be seen as the "top dog" in their patch.

Would it not make sense in the north e.g. Aberdeen Amateur League and the North Juniors League? 

 

It doesn't make any sense at all.  If there's a vacancy, ask for applications from anyone and assess on that basis.   It smacks of the SAFA desperately wanting to appear relevant and for whateever reason, the WoSFL entertaining it.

There will never be pro/rel between Senior/Ams, can you imagine an SFA licenced senior club accepting a drop to Ams football?

[parsforlife]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

There will never be pro/rel between Senior/Ams, can you imagine an SFA licenced senior club accepting a drop to Ams football?

Don’t see the problem with it, if you’re the worst side in the region what’s wrong with dropping down?

indeed it would probably have been preferable to a club like duns who were going well off the pitch but struggled with player recruitment and had to go play bottom division ams straight from EoS.

Not going to happen quickly(there’s a lot of hurdles not least our ridiculous player registration) but a nothing wrong with a smooth transition from top to bottom depending on pitch results and suitable off field structures appropriate for each level. 
 

[Basile Boli]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

 

A complete load of nonsense.  If you're not a club (an existing youth club or a brand new entity for example) who has no intention of playing amateur but want to join the Pyramid/WoSFL, you have to first join the SAFA? madness. 

Why is it madness?

If places are at a premium - which they clearly will be - then it makes sense to have a shortlist of clubs who have been committed to running an adult team for a period of time.

[PossilYM]

Don't mention Dumbarton St Pat's.

[andy25]

Just now, PossilYM said:

Don't mention Dumbarton St Pat's.

You just have...

[Basile Boli]

A fair amount of the amateur sides across the Caley and Central have better facilities than the majority of Division 4 and a few in Division 3 so would be interesting to see who’ll submit interest.

[archieb]

2 hours ago, Burnieman said:

There will never be pro/rel between Senior/Ams, can you imagine an SFA licenced senior club accepting a drop to Ams football?

There is no suggestion of compulsory relegation of any club from the WoSFL to Amateur football. This is all about helping potential candidates who might fill vacancies in WoSFL Division 4 to prepare for a possible step up.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Basile Boli said:

Why is it madness?

If places are at a premium - which they clearly will be - then it makes sense to have a shortlist of clubs who have been committed to running an adult team for a period of time.

Why do you need to prove youself in Amatuer football first? makes no sense.

[Burnieman]

7 minutes ago, archieb said:

There is no suggestion of compulsory relegation of any club from the WoSFL to Amateur football. This is all about helping potential candidates who might fill vacancies in WoSFL Division 4 to prepare for a possible step up.

I didn't suggest there would be. 

I'm not sure how being forced to be a member of the SAFA in order to go onto a short list for an indeterminite amount of time and then still have to sell your club to a panel (inc Amateur reps!), helps anyone  -apart from the SAFA.

Edited March 5 by Burnieman

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Don’t see the problem with it, if you’re the worst side in the region what’s wrong with dropping down?

indeed it would probably have been preferable to a club like duns who were going well off the pitch but struggled with player recruitment and had to go play bottom division ams straight from EoS.

Not going to happen quickly(there’s a lot of hurdles not least our ridiculous player registration) but a nothing wrong with a smooth transition from top to bottom depending on pitch results and suitable off field structures appropriate for each level. 
 

It would likely just encourage them to chuck it completely if they got punted to pub fitba.

[Basile Boli]

2 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Why do you need to prove youself in Amatuer football first? makes no sense.

Well it can show the WOS that any prospective team is committed to it.

I know they’ve been burned already with Harmony Row jacking it in after 1 season.

Who knows how teams like Eglington, Knightswood (to use them As an example) will get on over the next few seasons. They might toil for a few seasons and chuck it - hopefully not but you never know.

 

it could also take years for a spot to open up, and when it does any hypothetical boys club applying will have to compete with hypothetical amateur sides anyway so isn’t it sensible that they’ve been in the amateur leagues during this time? It gives them something to play for every year while they wait for the chance to apply.

Edited March 5 by Basile Boli

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Burnieman said:

It would likely just encourage them to chuck it completely if they got punted to pub fitba.

Instead of focusing on something that's actually happening. You've made something up. Relegation out of the WoSFL isn't part of the agreement. If it ever were then its a problem that would be identified, workshopped and an acceptable system put in place. Just like "Never going to get a Senior team relegated to the Juniors". Yet the Highland and Junior leagues have come up with something they're okay with.

An election system has blatant flaws.

Go back in this thread when it was Knightswood or St Pats and little of the conversation had to do with the merits of their respective applications. Banks O'Dee in 2009. Just about every SFL election process.

Overall, i'd say there's more pros than cons to this. As clubs at least know what to aim for and have an active process to be part of. Maybe a new division or feeder league could be formed if the accredited list grows to a number that could justify it.

[Arthurlie1981]

41 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Instead of focusing on something that's actually happening. You've made something up. Relegation out of the WoSFL isn't part of the agreement. If it ever were then its a problem that would be identified, workshopped and an acceptable system put in place. Just like "Never going to get a Senior team relegated to the Juniors". Yet the Highland and Junior leagues have come up with something they're okay with.

An election system has blatant flaws.

Go back in this thread when it was Knightswood or St Pats and little of the conversation had to do with the merits of their respective applications. Banks O'Dee in 2009. Just about every SFL election process.

Overall, i'd say there's more pros than cons to this. As clubs at least know what to aim for and have an active process to be part of. Maybe a new division or feeder league could be formed if the accredited list grows to a number that could justify it.

100% this. It might also get some of the top SAFA clubs in the WOSFL region to start to think about improving facilities if the have long term ambitions of joining the WOSFL and might encourage some of the so called youth club teams (hate that the are derided by some on here)  to join while improving facilities with the aim of being in a position to apply. 

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Instead of focusing on something that's actually happening. You've made something up. Relegation out of the WoSFL isn't part of the agreement. If it ever were then its a problem that would be identified, workshopped and an acceptable system put in place. Just like "Never going to get a Senior team relegated to the Juniors". Yet the Highland and Junior leagues have come up with something they're okay with.

An election system has blatant flaws.

Go back in this thread when it was Knightswood or St Pats and little of the conversation had to do with the merits of their respective applications. Banks O'Dee in 2009. Just about every SFL election process.

Overall, i'd say there's more pros than cons to this. As clubs at least know what to aim for and have an active process to be part of. Maybe a new division or feeder league could be formed if the accredited list grows to a number that could justify it.

At no point have I ever suggested it is happening or is part of any agreement, at least pay attention to what I posted before going in feet first.  Dev mentioned a hypothetical link up, parsforlife followed up as well, and I merely commented on that.

Amateur football should remain that, recreational as the SFA deem it.  Pub fitba, Sunday fitba, playing with yer pals, call it what you will. If any club decides it wants to make the leap from that to Senior football, they can apply and show that they have the facilities and the where-with-all to do it  (or any other club for that matter eg community youth clubs).

I wouldn't have thought there's a long queue of clubs waiting for an opening, but they shouldn't be forced to go though some arbitary process in Amateur football in order to be able to apply at some unknown future point.

 

Edited March 5 by Burnieman

[jimbaxters]

Maybe I'm way off base with this but can't see why amateur clubs would be clamoring for the chance to move into this league? 

Are there many/any amateur clubs who are desperate to join the WoSFL? If there are, who are they?

[glensmad]

33 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Maybe I'm way off base with this but can't see why amateur clubs would be clamoring for the chance to move into this league? 

Are there many/any amateur clubs who are desperate to join the WoSFL? If there are, who are they?

There has been a number of enquiries over the course of this season about joining the WoSFL. It would not be good practice for these clubs to be named on here.

[craigkillie]

17 hours ago, Burnieman said:

There will never be pro/rel between Senior/Ams, can you imagine an SFA licenced senior club accepting a drop to Ams football?

20 years ago you'd have said "can you imagine an SPFL club dropping into Junior/East of Scotland/Highland League football", but it has basically happened several times now and the world didn't collapse in on itself. If you are not good enough to play in your league, you have to be prepared to drop down to the one below and everything that comes with that.