Hate Crime Bill Passed

[AUcal]

[JagsCG]

3 hours ago, MSU said:

McCoist isn’t a bigot, but he guarantees he’ll be committing a hate crime at Ibrox on Sunday along with 48,000 Rangers fans. So much for that minority angle. 

One of the reasons that it’s quite obvious IMO that McCoist 1. wasn’t really referring to sectarianism or racism and 2. Doesn’t at all understand the bill beyond the type of thing you’d expect to read in The Sun (other rags are available).

He wasn’t being bigoted (and I don’t think is a bigot) but he also wasn’t joking as some have felt, he genuinely believes that football fans, Rangers or otherwise, are at risk of being charged under the hate crime bill by merely abusing opposition fans or players etc - which obviously you can guarantee will happen at almost every match.

All in all, he’s just been a bit thick on National Radio and it’s backfired on him. Still pretty embarrassing of course particularly after his recent attempt at being offended himself when Scotland fans booed GSTK against England. 

Edited April 2 by JagsCG

[Molotov]

4 hours ago, tirso said:

I have a suspicion, a small one, McCoist may have been joking somewhat.....

humour by pass .. 

Glasgow has a history of such things.

Which fcuking comedian in the transport department got away with this for so long? 

[Mr Waldo]

 

Jonathan Pie.  Just to annoy some folk.

A couple of good lines.

[Leith Green]

Its amusing that people think that Scotland has introduced something completely new and this type of thing "just wont become part of the system in England" or whatever pish that shortarse Sunak spouted earlier today.

The CPS actually have this fairly useful explainer on what a hate crime is, and what they will do about it - in England.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/stories/hatecrime

Honest tae f**k, it seems like whenever anything is introduced up here it is attacked as being some made up wokery that the SNP dreamed up (when there was cross party support - well, apart from the obvious tories - for the introduction of the bill).

I was in the car with my father in law yesterday and he was ranting on about "the police can now record anything and now have these powers to tell employers all about what your neighbour reported about you.......for anything, and they didnt have this power yesterday".

Honest to f**k it took all my self control not to call him out as the reactionary right wing fuckhead that he is - but my wife was actually doing a more measured job of putting him straight on actual facts.

The media is absolutely culpable for this shite, and while I have little sympathy with people who are too lazy to see past the headlines in the Daily Mail / Express / Record / BBC you would at least think the editors could dredge up stories that were vaguely true?

[dirty dingus]

Yoons in manufactured outrage about destroying oor kulture. McCoist is a panelist on Radio Gammon with the other whammies like Alan Brazil and Simon Jordan where being a c**t comes with the territory. Him and Brazil know the hatred brings in the money so amplify the OF* shite to the max. I'm sure McCoist knows all the party songs but I'd give him enough smarts not to belt out Derry's Walls when he's on co-coms. 

[Boo Khaki]

Part of me would like to encounter one of these people who apparently believes they should have the right to say all sorts of things that would constitute Hate Crimes if said in public, provided they are stood in their own homes when they say it. I mean, what does that say about you as a person? If you are genuinely "not like that", then why on earth would you need, let alone want the right to behave like that?

For folk who say it's about personal freedoms and liberties, I'd like to ask them what an appropriate response is when I take an ethnic minority girlfriend to visit a relative, only for her to leave in floods of tears because, to my complete bewilderment, she was on the receiving end of a torrent of racist abuse from someone I had no idea held these views? Shrug and write it off as having taken place inside a private home? How far do you push this? Which other laws should stop being in effect at your threshold?

I can't get my head around the "I should be legally free to be a hateful c**t within my own home" argument at all. 

[DrewDon]

I don't think McCoist was joking, but I don't think he was nodding and winking to sectarianism either; I think it is most likely that he was just being a standard issue, sixty-something, British bloke who genuinely believes that you can't say anything nowadays without being arrested. 

[Lyle Lanley]

3 hours ago, Mr Waldo said:

 

Jonathan Pie.  Just to annoy some folk.

A couple of good lines.

He's pretty good live. 

[GHF-23]

Does it count as a hate crime if someone shares something as rancidly stupid and unfunny as Jonathan Pie in my safe space (the pie and Bovril dot com)

[Leith Green]

22 minutes ago, GHF-23 said:

Does it count as a hate crime if someone shares something as rancidly stupid and unfunny as Jonathan Pie in my safe space (the pie and Bovril dot com)

The Pie character is actually pretty funny, and as LL notes above - very good live.

Unfortunately - and like too many of the supposedly serious media commentators - he hasnt really done his homework properly on this situation.

Frankly there are dozens of areas where he could ridicule the Scottish Govt but to jump on this bandwagon is a wee bit beneath him, especially if he doesnt really understand it.

[TheScarf]

8 hours ago, DrewDon said:

I don't think McCoist was joking, but I don't think he was nodding and winking to sectarianism either; I think it is most likely that he was just being a standard issue, sixty-something, British bloke who genuinely believes that you can't say anything nowadays without being arrested. 

Just a ruddy, bloody bloke!

[AyrExile]

Good to see this entering the junk bin on day2 by letting Rowling off the hook. Someone with the resources and public profile will see this laughed out of court and well they know it. The category of economically disadvantaged white 18-30 male has been flagged by the polis as the person most likely to fall foul of the new rules. When the first patsy gets served hopefully Rowling steps in and provides some backing to help fight this. How long before this goes the way of the football hate bill or the sweetie bottle scheme?

[itzdrk]

15 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Hmm. It seems the failed family lawyer is a bully and Humza an unprincipled shitebag. Pass it on…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/02/nicola-sturgeon-blocked-law-protect-jk-rowling-feminists/
 

  Hide contents

Sturgeon ‘blocked changes’ to Scotland’s hate crime laws

Former first minister accused of pressuring Humza Yousaf over legislation that prompted JK Rowling’s ‘arrest me’ challenge

Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor2 April 2024 • 4:01pm

Nicola Sturgeon has been accused of blocking changes to Scotland’s hate crime laws that would have protected feminists’ freedom of speech on trans issues.

Feminist group For Women Scotland (FWS) say that as first minister, Ms Sturgeon forced Humza Yousaf, then her justice secretary, to withdraw amendments to the legislation during its final parliamentary stages in 2021.

Susan Smith, one of the group’s directors, said these would have provided specific freedom of speech protections for feminists who argue that sex is a physical binary characteristic that cannot be changed.

As the legislation came into force on Monday, JK Rowling posted pictures of 10 high-profile trans people and ridiculed their claims to be women. The Harry Potter author then dared Police Scotland to use the new laws to arrest her.

JK Rowling mocked a number of trans people in her social media post and challenged police to arrest herCredit: JOHN PHILLIPS/GETTY IMAGES EUROPE

Ms Smith said Mr Yousaf, who succeeded Ms Sturgeon as first minister, had broken a promise that she and a colleague would be involved in drawing up training materials for the police that would have dealt with situations like that.

She told BBC Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour that this was because he thought that “it would upset the trans lobby if those examples were given in the guidance to the police”.

In 2021, Mr Yousaf oversaw the passage of the hate crime legislation at Holyrood,  which was supported by nearly all SNP and Labour MSPs. However, it did not come into force until Monday, as Police Scotland said it needed time for training.

The legislation creates a criminal offence of “stirring up of hatred”, expanding on a similar offence based on racist abuse that has been on the statute book for decades.

It extends the offence to abuse on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

MSPs raised concerns about women’s exclusion

But an amendment to add sex to the list of protected characteristics was voted down, despite cross-party MSPs raising concerns about why women were excluded.

Ms Smith argued that those accused of hate crimes under the legislation face living under the cloud of a police investigation for two years, even if they are later cleared of any wrongdoing, “so the process very much becomes the punishment”.

“And this could all have been avoided because right back at the beginning, during the last stages of the Bill, there was an attempt to put in free speech amendments,” she added.

“There was an outcry on Twitter. Nicola Sturgeon directly intervened and made Humza Yousaf pull them.

A protester labelled Nicola Sturgeon a destroyer of women's rights during a demonstration at Holyrood in 2021 Credit: IAIN MASTERTON/ALAMY

“He then promised at committee, he promised me and Lucy Hunter Blackburn that we would be involved in drafting guidance and giving examples so the police would understand if somebody like JK Rowling made a thread like that on Twitter, for example.

“We could have had real world examples for the police to use in training. But what happened was he broke those promises because ministers decided that it would upset the trans lobby if those examples were given in the guidance to the police.”

In early 2021, Mr Yousaf tabled an amendment to the Bill aimed at addressing concerns that gender-critical feminists would be criminalised for arguing that trans women are men.

This was later withdrawn, and he persuaded other parties to pull their amendments on the same issue, with a round table discussion on the issue held instead.

The final Act contains a section stating that “behaviour or material is not to be taken to be threatening or abusive solely on the basis that it involves” discussion or criticism involving trans issues.

However, this is weaker than the freedom of speech protection given to “discussion or criticism relating to, or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule or insult towards” religious beliefs and practices.

A senior SNP MP said the final wording of the Act ignored the recommendations of an official review of hate crime by judge Lord Bracadale that a “protection of freedom of expression provision” be included.

Women's rights groups protested outside a Glasgow sex shop designated as a reporting centre for hate crime as the new law came into force on MondayCredit: JAMES CHAPELAND

Joanna Cherry KC, the Edinburgh South West MP and an ally of Rowling, tweeted: “His recommendations were not followed by the Scottish Parliament in relation to the offence of stirring up hatred on the grounds of transgender identity, but they were in respect of religion. Relevant amendments were voted down.”

She added: “For these reasons, many of us have legitimate concerns about this aspect of the legislation, being weaponised against women, who do not believe in gender identity theory, and wish to exercise their right to explain why. As JK Rowling has done.”

On Tuesday, Rowling went on social media to hit back at claims she would be remembered by history as a “bigoted children’s book author”.

She said: “Again with the legacy guff... if your friend History thinks women don’t deserve sex-based rights, healthy kids should be medicalised, and free speech needs stamping out, I’m not interested in being his buddy. He sounds a massive dick.”

Ms Sturgeon’s spokeswoman referred a request for a comment to the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government was approached for comment.

 

What's the issue here? 

Should hate groups like FWS be taken seriously?

[GordonS]

7 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Good to see this entering the junk bin on day2 by letting Rowling off the hook. Someone with the resources and public profile will see this laughed out of court and well they know it. The category of economically disadvantaged white 18-30 male has been flagged by the polis as the person most likely to fall foul of the new rules. When the first patsy gets served hopefully Rowling steps in and provides some backing to help fight this. How long before this goes the way of the football hate bill or the sweetie bottle scheme?

I can well understand why you would be opposed to hate crime legislation.

[Scary Bear]

Humza has been reported for a speech he made in 2020. 

[GordonS]

4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Humza has been reported for a speech he made in 2020. 

This is the speech Elon Musk complains about. https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report/search-what-was-said-in-parliament/meeting-of-parliament-10-06-2020?meeting=12685&iob=114774#4941

Anyone who finds something objectionable in there is obviously racist AF.

"This is the part where we should all begin to feel uncomfortable, because we have to accept the reality and the evidence that is in front of us, that Scotland has a problem of structural racism. As members have said, we can take the Parliament as an example. More than 300 MSPs have come to and gone from this Parliament—our nation’s Parliament. In 20 years, there has not been a single black member of the Scottish Parliament, to our shame; there has not been a single woman MSP of colour, to our shame; and the only four ethnic minority MSPs have all been Scots Asian males.

Take Anas Sarwar and I. We are hardly even diverse between us. We are both male, we were both born and raised in Glasgow’s south side, we are both in our mid-30s, we went to the same private school, we are both middle class and our fathers even come from the same region in Pakistan. His father happens to be the governor of the region; my dad did not quite get there.

The Conservatives, Greens and Liberal Democrats have never had a single person of colour in their MSP ranks in 20 years of devolution. I do not say that to point the finger; I say it because we have to make change. They have never had a single non-white MP from Scotland in their history.

To my colleagues in the Government, I say that we know that we are not immune, either. Some people have been surprised or taken aback by my mention on my social media that at 99 per cent of the meetings that I go to, I am the only non-white person in the room.

Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white? Take my portfolio, for example. The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white. 

That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people. In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white. That is not good enough.

I do not doubt that across the private sector, black and minority ethnic people are similarly underrepresented at senior levels. That is a collective failure that includes every single one of us. I hope that we are sitting uncomfortably, because those should be uncomfortable truths for us all."

 

[Scary Bear]

On that Humza speech, I just watched it. Had forgotten all about it, but I recall this was during lockdown, in the aftermath of the George Floyd death and BLM protests.

At the time it didn’t really register as particularly dodgy, but 4 years later, it doesn’t sit well to have the FM (a man of Pakistani heritage) saying “white” repeatedly and in a hostile manner. Scotland is a 96% white country by demographics, so you’re looking at a 1 in 20 chance of seeing someone non-white in a top job. 

Despite demographics, the leaders of the two parties with any chances of getting into power in Scotland are both non-white. I would have thought if you got to the 1 in 20 stage for these top jobs Humza mentions that would be about right.

Edited April 3 by Scary Bear

[Scary Bear]

29 minutes ago, GordonS said:

This is the speech Elon Musk complains about. https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report/search-what-was-said-in-parliament/meeting-of-parliament-10-06-2020?meeting=12685&iob=114774#4941

Anyone who finds something objectionable in there is obviously racist AF.

"This is the part where we should all begin to feel uncomfortable, because we have to accept the reality and the evidence that is in front of us, that Scotland has a problem of structural racism. As members have said, we can take the Parliament as an example. More than 300 MSPs have come to and gone from this Parliament—our nation’s Parliament. In 20 years, there has not been a single black member of the Scottish Parliament, to our shame; there has not been a single woman MSP of colour, to our shame; and the only four ethnic minority MSPs have all been Scots Asian males.

Take Anas Sarwar and I. We are hardly even diverse between us. We are both male, we were both born and raised in Glasgow’s south side, we are both in our mid-30s, we went to the same private school, we are both middle class and our fathers even come from the same region in Pakistan. His father happens to be the governor of the region; my dad did not quite get there.

The Conservatives, Greens and Liberal Democrats have never had a single person of colour in their MSP ranks in 20 years of devolution. I do not say that to point the finger; I say it because we have to make change. They have never had a single non-white MP from Scotland in their history.

To my colleagues in the Government, I say that we know that we are not immune, either. Some people have been surprised or taken aback by my mention on my social media that at 99 per cent of the meetings that I go to, I am the only non-white person in the room.

Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white? Take my portfolio, for example. The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white. 

That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people. In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white. That is not good enough.

I do not doubt that across the private sector, black and minority ethnic people are similarly underrepresented at senior levels. That is a collective failure that includes every single one of us. I hope that we are sitting uncomfortably, because those should be uncomfortable truths for us all."

 

On the bit about him and Anas Sarwar being male and from privileged backgrounds, isn’t that just UK politics in a nutshell? 

on the lack of non-white msps in Scotland for the Tories, Lib Dems and Greens. How many MSPs from these parties get elected? The big parties in Scotland are Labour and SNP. To get more non-white / people of colour MSPs for Tories, Lib Dem’s or Greens, or indeed For the SNP or Labour, you would need some of the 5% of the non-white / people of colour demographic to be interested in joining these parties, rise through the ranks of the parties, and then get elected. It’ll surely just come down to who is interested enough in politics to get involved and stay involved. 

Edit: I’m not involved with any political party, so I’m not sure how easy it is to rise through the ranks for a person of colour, but I would have thought they would be more PC than the rest of society.

Edited April 3 by Scary Bear

[dirty dingus]

Swally is not even going to Ibrox so his outburst looks even more stupid but hey if you sound the bear klaxon expect them to turn up the stupid levels to max. Party songs for the first half party booing for the second.

Edited April 3 by dirty dingus