Aim Here Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: All these clubs are releasing mealy-mouthed statements pretending it was fan pressure that forced them to quit the ESL and not the prospect of losing massive lawsuits to the governing bodies and broadcasters. I doubt they'd lose such lawsuits, except the ones they'd be bringing to stop themselves being hoofed out of their domestic leagues. There's no law (at least not yet) that says that a major football team has to be forced to play for Sky/UEFA/the Champions League/The EPL. It won't just have been fan pressure, sure; the government and the players and managers seem to have been part of the revolt. They underestimated the absolute scale and unanimity of the outcry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said: Has uefa increased the money or done any changes to get this climb down, i wouldnt be surprised if they have? My feeling is this will just be put to be for a few years, next time its raised it will be under a different name and there will be less backlash against it and it will get put through I always thought a Euro Super League was inevitable and I probably still do but this has set it back a few years. The new CL format makes it look like a league. The next complaint will be that they are playing different teams. If Barca get through to the next phase on goal difference because they beat their low ranked team Bate Borisov 8-1 but Bayern didn't because they could only beat their low ranked team Celtic 5-0 then that's not fair on Bayern so they will increase the games so that it is more consistent. In a few years they will want weekend CL games. Domestic leagues become less important as is already the case to PSG, Bayern Barca and Real as they ultimately rate their season on how they done in the CL. Then they will cut UEFA out the picture as they take too big a cut. Then it's all but a European league anyway and with better marketing and discussion these teams find themselves in it without as much fuss. Use our league is an example and I would guess Portugal and Netherlands may be similar, would there be much argument from OF and non OF fans if they found a way to leave? Once these top leagues get to that mindset it will be easier for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, ahemps said: What frustrates me about these clubs with huge debts is they don't think they need to reduce them. Barca and Real could get rid of a few high earners bring through some youngsters and still finish top 4 in their league. They'd probably still regularly get to the CL quarters, win 1 or 2 La Liga's or Copa Del Rey's then in 5yrs time be in a position to buy the best players in the world again. It is like they can never not be challenging to the best team in the world without realising they aren't and a reset would be beneficial to them. Exactly - it's arrogance. They could easily pay this down by selling some players and cutting the wage bill, but they generally choose not to. Barcelona are responsible for three of the top six highest transfers of all time (Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann) and all were done within the last four years. Overlooking that these signings have all been total duds, that's a massive amount money paid and they are never recouping anywhere near what they paid. They paid well over the odds for these players and cannot get anywhere near what they paid back for them. Much as they may like to pretend that the issue is that they suffer the inconvenience of having to share broadcast money, their financial problems are entirely their own doing owing to utterly terrible management. The pandemic is another cheap excuse, too. Yes, I have no doubt they are suffering losses as a result but so is every club. They aren't some sort of special case here that we should all feel sorry for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 20 hours ago, Jacksgranda said: That probably rules you and me out, willy. Yip, getting crushed on the nasdaq,playing the rich mans game with buttons is no fun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Jambomo said: Arsenal are out now too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Enigma said: I see Prince Philip has died! Has he? Thought there would be something on the news about that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Michael W said: The pandemic is another cheap excuse, too. Yes, I have no doubt they are suffering losses as a result but so is every club. They aren't some sort of special case here that we should all feel sorry for. The pandemic has played a huge role in the happening now. When you have the kind of debts these clubs have, you can’t afford to drop 30 or 40m from your turnover. They need immediate cash injections and this would have done it. It’s their own fucking faults for having such catastrophic levels of debt, but Covid has taken their debt from being a big problem to deal with in the future to being a huge problem needing dealt with now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I wonder how anyone would offer up explanation for "football is currently not working"I would contend that the only people for whom football is working currently are those who have somehow arrived at this conclusion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Steve Parish rightly pointed out this morning that the new CL was a shambles too and that clubs like Ajax shouldn't have to go through rounds of qualifying after winning the league, only for clubs who may have finished 7th in their league qualifying on the basis of an arbitrary period of history. Unfortunately no one pushed him on whether it was right that England took 4 automatic spots whilst champions of several countries battle through rounds of qualifying. I suspect he wouldn't particularly see the problem with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfCutNinja Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ross. said: The pandemic has played a huge role in the happening now. When you have the kind of debts these clubs have, you can’t afford to drop 30 or 40m from your turnover. They need immediate cash injections and this would have done it. It’s their own fucking faults for having such catastrophic levels of debt, but Covid has taken their debt from being a big problem to deal with in the future to being a huge problem needing dealt with now. Aye, Barca said they have lost 200m from Covid, and that at the end of last season. f**k knows what it is now. They have one of the highest attendances in Europe and charge extortionate ticket prices, so it stands to reason they would be hit harder than most by no fans in the ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 One thing this shows is the Wizard of Oz heuristic. The European Super League clubs look great and powerful with massive resources and people assumed they'd thought this through, that they had been through all the legal options, that they had considered the backlash and would wait it out. Obviously, they didn't - the curtain has been pulled back to reveal the true weakness of these seemingly massive clubs. It reminds me of Scottish football in 2012 when the authorities gave ultra gloomy predictions of what would happen if Rangers weren't immediately re-admitted to the top flight. Clubs would go bust, TV deals lost, social unrest would occur. But Rangers weren't readmitted and none of it happened. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just now, Bairnardo said: I wonder how anyone would offer up explanation for "football is currently not working" I would contend that the only people for whom football is working currently are those who have somehow arrived at this conclusion What they mean by 'football isn't working' is 'the owners of these elite clubs aren't able to make the clubs profitable'. They have this fantasy that, contrary to 150 years of practice, a major football club isn't an endless money sink for those foolish enough to own one, but actually some sort of profitable enterprise that generates return on investment, whereas the reality is that any money they make will usually have to be splurged on trying to keep up with the competition, upon pain of losing revenue due to poorer competition results. Between them, these elite clubs have amassed a horrendous shitton of debt, and the owners' plan was to leverage their name and reshape European football into being a perpetual money-making vehicle just for them, so they could at least start to clear the debt off their books, rather than, say, cutting their player wage bill and having to face a fan revolt. Happily an even more severe fan revolt happened anyways 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 My own mother is as twee as f**k and when talking to young kids she can't say the word "Super" without following it up with duper. She did it throughout my childhood, and that of my kids, to the point where I now can't hear anything else. The last couple of days have been tough. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, G51 said: Those things were all done by fans of the old Rangers. My beloved Sevco have an impeccable record of behaviour. 2016 Scottish Cup final would suggest otherwise. Congratulations on your first league title. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 What frustrates me about these clubs with huge debts is they don't think they need to reduce them. Barca and Real could get rid of a few high earners bring through some youngsters and still finish top 4 in their league. They'd probably still regularly get to the CL quarters, win 1 or 2 La Liga's or Copa Del Rey's then in 5yrs time be in a position to buy the best players in the world again. It is like they can never not be challenging to the best team in the world without realising they aren't and a reset would be beneficial to them.fans of those monster clubs wouldnt accept that strategy though, spoilt brats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Steve Parish rightly pointed out this morning that the new CL was a shambles too and that clubs like Ajax shouldn't have to go through rounds of qualifying after winning the league, only for clubs who may have finished 7th in their league qualifying on the basis of an arbitrary period of history. Unfortunately no one pushed him on whether it was right that England took 4 automatic spots whilst champions of several countries battle through rounds of qualifying. I suspect he wouldn't particularly see the problem with that. Ajax aren't really the best example given that they didn't have to qualify this season, and even if the Dutch league had been further down the national coefficient list then the new CL system would actually have benefitted them since they would have taken the new automatic group stage spot for the champions with the highest club coefficient. Edited April 21, 2021 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Well that all folded a bit quicker than I expected, however it was fun to see various politicians etc trying out their "ordinary bloke" personae over the last few days. Edited April 21, 2021 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 It would be brilliant to see these clubs collapse, a house of cards. Football is a kind of ponzi scheme even though people have said for years me included that the bubble has to burst sometime, the tv deals keep going up and it doesnt but maybe we have seen the first cracks appear. In same way the housing bubble collapsed yet plenty people believed before it happened that houses prices would always go up.How's it a Ponzi scheme? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Ajax aren't really the best example given that they didn't have to qualify this season, and even if the Dutch league had been further down the national coefficient list then the new CL system would actually have benefitted them since they would have taken the new automatic group stage spot for the champions with the highest club coefficient. Just to follow up on that, here's how the new CL system would have affected things if it was in place this season. The teams in bold are the ones which would be added: Spain x4 - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Atletico Madrid England x4 - Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea Italy x4 - Juventus, Inter, Atalanta, Lazio Germany x4 - Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Borussia Monchengladbach France x 4 - PSG, Marseille, Rennes, Lille Russia x2 - Zenit St Petersburg, Lokomotiv Moscow Portugal - Porto Belgium - Club Brugge Ukraine - Shakhtar Donetsk Turkey - Istanbul Basaksehir Netherlands - Ajax Champions with highest 5-year coefficient - RB Salzburg (successfully went through qualifiers, but would have been automatic under new system) Two extra Euro-qualified teams with highest 5-year coefficient - Arsenal, Tottenham Qualifiers x6 (obviously the champions draw would have been slightly rejigged due to the absence of RB Salzburg) - Midtyjlland, Olympiacos, Ferencvaros, Maccabi Tel-Aviv (for example), Krasnodar, Dynamo Kyiv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: How's it a Ponzi scheme? I'm pretty sure he means "Asset Bubble" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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