The work shy and bone idle....

[parsforlife]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There is no single definition of UBI. 

If it's introduced by the Tories or the EU it won't benefit the less well off.

1. It isn’t getting introduced by torries.

2. What definition have you seen that doesn’t include everyone getting the same amount?  I’ve seen a wide range of amounts, but never have seen it being variable depending how rich you are.

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, philpy said:

The thought of coming to a point in life where I won't be working Seems daunting.  I'm in a job where I'm constantly busy, and my days pass by very quickly.  I have no hobbies as such that would fill the void of retirement when that day comes. I'm very much of the mindset that I would work to the day I drop if I could. 

This is what bowling clubs were invented for. 

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

1. It isn’t getting introduced by torries.

2. What definition have you seen that doesn’t include everyone getting the same amount?  I’ve seen a wide range of amounts, but never have seen it being variable depending how rich you are.

There are versions of UBI where it replaces benefits. So if you are on benefits you don't get any more money and will be relatively less well off compared to employed people. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If people only did everything they wanted, everyone would spend all day sitting on the carpet, watching the Poker Channel, wanking and eating those expensive German biscuits.

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

There are versions of UBI where it replaces benefits. So if you are on benefits you don't get any more money and will be relatively less well off compared to employed people. 

Receiving an unconditional basic income will still leave those people much better off than the current benefits system, because they wouldn't have to face abysmal 'work coach' meetings/filling in job search diaries, benefit sanctions putting them into absolute poverty or, the horror above all others, being subject to the PiP system and all its subcontracted, moron agencies. 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Receiving an unconditional basic income will still leave those people much better off than the current benefits system, because they wouldn't have to face abysmal 'work coach' meetings/filling in job search diaries, benefit sanctions putting them into absolute poverty or, the horror above all others, being subject to the PiP system and all its subcontracted, moron agencies. 

 

The administration savings should pay for it as well. No errors and no fraud either...in theory.

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

Receiving an unconditional basic income will still leave those people much better off than the current benefits system, because they wouldn't have to face abysmal 'work coach' meetings/filling in job search diaries, benefit sanctions putting them into absolute poverty or, the horror above all others, being subject to the PiP system and all its subcontracted, moron agencies. 

 

+ when they enter the workforce they continue to receive UBI.

Unless we think those on benefits will never enter the workforce and never meet someone in the workforce who is more financially secure(and therefore more able to help them, directly or indirectly) they will be financially better off as well. 

[NotThePars]

On 11/06/2021 at 17:57, ICTChris said:

 

It would be interesting to see that broken down by salary, different employment type or sector.

I've been in the workplace for nearly 20 years and I've been very fortunate, I have had a lot more positive experiences than negatives ones.  I've had four fulltime jobs since starting in work and I'd say three of those were very positive.  One wasn't a great place to work but there were positives about it - some people there were good and working in a place with major issues in all sorts of ways is actually a valuable experience.  I was lucky in that I was in a position to jump ship though.  

My job is reactive which is a big advantage because it means that things are varied and no two days are the same.  I also work in a very pressured role which I actually enjoy and have mentally adapted to pretty well.  One thing about being in pressurised situations all the time is that you eventually get used to it and unless you are very unlucky things are never as bad as they can be.  I can't really articulate it but I enjoy when things go wrong as it's interesting,  I enjoy disruption and chaos.  I like having things thrown at me that I don't understand and having to get my head around them.  People do burn out in this sort of role though and that has happened to colleagues but I enjoy it.  Maybe my burnout is in the post, we'll see.

 

 

 

Were you a division commander for ISIS?

[ICTChris]

27 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Were you a division commander for ISIS?

When I worked for a large insurance firm our department was renamed ISIS in 2012. Not the best times rebrand.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

4 hours ago, Chris McDonald said:

Ive heard the discussions over the years of 'these work shy scroungers' and having experience of long term unemployment I thin its extremely unfair to tar everybody long term unemployed with the same brish as between the 2013 and the end of 2014 my self confidence was pretty much non existant. I was doing wee bits of volunteer work and getting involved in community projects but starting at BT gave me a platform to turn my life around and get myself to the best place ive ever been mentally and spiritually. When my confidence was non existant i knew a few folk who shall remain nameless who were happy to claim dole money and cross of days on a calendar and would take the piss out of people who were really timid when they got money from the dole or work. I would ask on occassion if they wanted to work and mentioned ways of getting into work through employment agencies, college etc and i would get a response of 'Nah i cannae be bothered doing that' I would look at getting people like this in work by sending them to recruitment agencies and if they dropped out due to this attitude of 'i cannae be bothered' then you take away their money and replace it with the smart card thing they were talking about bringing in a few years ago but you made it so you could only get basics off it so no drugs, alcohol, fags, games that sort of things as its unfair if you have somebody who is trying by going to agencies or college unable to maybe go for a pint and you have your chancers taking the piss. Now the chancers are minimal but they are still frustrating as im going to do my hnc at college in september and at times i feel as if im not getting as many opportunities as i maybe should be although covid is partially to blame for that

f**k, and I can't stress this enough, off. 

You say yourself that "chancers are minimal" yet you still want to implement a smart card system which will affect the vast majority who by your own admission are not chancers. I think we can safely file your Tebbit-esque shite in the nearest bin.

Your last sentence also makes no sense. How are "the chancers" limiting your opportunities? Do you always blame others for your own failures in life? 

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

'Subsistence farmers' worked significantly less on an annual basis than workers in an industrial society in any temperate climate around the world. The subjugation of the peasant understanding of time, work and holidays to the countable commodity of factory discipline was roughly Step 1.2 of enacting the Industrial Revolution, everywhere.

Citizens in the high Roman Empire spent around half of their year celebrating some form of state or religious festival, and also sacked off work in the afternoon the rest of the time to go to the bathhouse (more like a catch-all leisure centre). 

Your thesis that industrial society has generated artificial idleness from an otherwise hard-working state of nature has no basis in either history or anthropology. 

Not my thesis at all champ. 

I'm well aware that hunter gatherers spend a lot more time relaxing with their extended families than i do. 

I'm also well aware that the depths of winter and the height of summer was time off for the farmers (although many used that for their "surplus" activities, crafts and whatnot). 

But when there's work to be done they have to get on and do it.  Otherwise they will be very hungry and or shunned by their peers. Therefore doing your work becomes virtuous. 

My notion (i'll not call it a thesis, because it's not one) is that that link between doing the work and virtue has become misplaced in a time and system when someone will always find more work for you for little extra reward. 

"Something that evolved in another time is no longer appropriate" isn't that wild a concept. 

 

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

When I worked for a large insurance firm our department was renamed ISIS in 2012. Not the best times rebrand.

It's important to be provocative and have an eye-catching name.

[ICTChris]

3 hours ago, NotThePars said:

It's important to be provocative and have an eye-catching name.

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

9 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

If people only did everything they wanted, everyone would spend all day sitting on the carpet, watching the Poker Channel, wanking and eating those expensive German biscuits.

Sounds exhausting tbh

[hk blues]

13 hours ago, Detournement said:

That's not any different to people sticking Dr before their name or MSci after it tbh.

That's universal though. I've not come across folk using their job-type as their name except here in the Philippines.  

 

[scottsdad]

18 hours ago, Detournement said:

That's not any different to people sticking Dr before their name or MSci after it tbh.

When I got my PhD, I went on a flight with my supervisor. He was a Professor, but on his plane tickets he was listed as Mr. I asked him about that and his answer was simple. When he got his PhD, he (like me) could use the prefix "Dr" on his name when out and about. But his worry was being on a plane or a train and someone having a heart attack, and someone standing up, pointing at him and saying "That man is a doctor!" His X-ray diffraction of protein skills would have been useless there.

Good advice. I use Dr at work, though students all call me by my first name (very different to when I was a student 20 years ago). At home, just Mr. 

I know a guy also who lists memberships of organisations after his name, as well as all his degrees. I'll anonymise his name but it goes like:

Dr Fluffy Bawbags, BSc (Hons), MSc, PhD, IHBC, ICON, FRSA...and so on. Some of these he just pays a subscription to. 

[NotThePars]

When I got my PhD, I went on a flight with my supervisor. He was a Professor, but on his plane tickets he was listed as Mr. I asked him about that and his answer was simple. When he got his PhD, he (like me) could use the prefix "Dr" on his name when out and about. But his worry was being on a plane or a train and someone having a heart attack, and someone standing up, pointing at him and saying "That man is a doctor!" His X-ray diffraction of protein skills would have been useless there.
Good advice. I use Dr at work, though students all call me by my first name (very different to when I was a student 20 years ago). At home, just Mr. 
I know a guy also who lists memberships of organisations after his name, as well as all his degrees. I'll anonymise his name but it goes like:
Dr Fluffy Bawbags, BSc (Hons), MSc, PhD, IHBC, ICON, FRSA...and so on. Some of these he just pays a subscription to. 

I would’ve thought if someone had a heart attack they’d want someone with a PhD to explain that essence precedes existence

[Left Back]

3 hours ago, scottsdad said:

When I got my PhD, I went on a flight with my supervisor. He was a Professor, but on his plane tickets he was listed as Mr. I asked him about that and his answer was simple. When he got his PhD, he (like me) could use the prefix "Dr" on his name when out and about. But his worry was being on a plane or a train and someone having a heart attack, and someone standing up, pointing at him and saying "That man is a doctor!" His X-ray diffraction of protein skills would have been useless there.

Good advice. I use Dr at work, though students all call me by my first name (very different to when I was a student 20 years ago). At home, just Mr. 

I know a guy also who lists memberships of organisations after his name, as well as all his degrees. I'll anonymise his name but it goes like:

Dr Fluffy Bawbags, BSc (Hons), MSc, PhD, IHBC, ICON, FRSA...and so on. Some of these he just pays a subscription to. 

Missed a trick.  Could have got his nat king like Leonardo did.

[SANTAN]

Ahm looking for workers not shirkers..

[RH33]

23 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Putting aside the deliberate sarcasm, I think you make a valid point; I think it’s about finding a balance.

I’m retiring at Christmas, just a few months ahead of my 67th birthday.  In many ways I’m really looking forward to it, yet I’m very wary of not having enough to keep my mind occupied.  My job is pretty full on and going from that to doing relatively little will take some adjusting.

 

My dad spent the year before he retired making sure he had enough planned to structure his week round. Currently he's secretary of the Highland leauge and his local golf club. While covid has meant both of these required more work than usual, he was also grateful have them filling his time during lockdown.

He also completed a research masters, for fun!