DG.Roma Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 54 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said: Is Ross Irving's move to Threave a loan deal or permanent? Heard Mixed stories... I've no idea, but I think his contract is up in the summer, so maybe it's a loan for now and he's not being offered a new contract, so he won't be back. That might explain the mixed stories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipmat Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Artemis said: If a club can’t afford to sack a manager a year and a bit into a two and a half year contract, would they not be better off giving him a shorter contract in the first place? Appointing him isn’t the issue. The problem is giving an untried manager two and a half years. I suppose he might have insisted on it or else he wouldn’t have joined. If that was the case, they should just have said “Thanks for your time”. The risk of not being able to afford a sacking after a year should be factored into the decision to appoint. Not just the length of contract. I'm starting to think that he either demanded or was offered a ridiculously high salary for a rookie manager at our level. One way or another, I expect that through his gift of the gab he has hoodwinked the board into awarding him a much better contract than they may have initially considered offering the successful candidate, so keen were they to get their man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 25 minutes ago, Slipmat said: Not just the length of contract. I'm starting to think that he either demanded or was offered a ridiculously high salary for a rookie manager at our level. One way or another, I expect that through his gift of the gab he has hoodwinked the board into awarding him a much better contract than they may have initially considered offering the successful candidate, so keen were they to get their man. ^^^ Yeah, I think this too. Bartley is smooth, confident and can talk a good job so I'm sure he impressed in his interview. Equally, he's not shy so I can imagine him asking for a decent length of contract. So the BOD probably thought he's better than the other options they had and had to meet some of his demands to land him. The BOD also probably thought he'll do well and a bigger club will come in for him before his contract is done, hence we'll get some cash for him when he goes. It's all in the roll of the dice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenacres Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 11 hours ago, Otis Blue said: ^^^ Yeah, I think this too. Bartley is smooth, confident and can talk a good job so I'm sure he impressed in his interview. Equally, he's not shy so I can imagine him asking for a decent length of contract. So the BOD probably thought he's better than the other options they had and had to meet some of his demands to land him. The BOD also probably thought he'll do well and a bigger club will come in for him before his contract is done, hence we'll get some cash for him when he goes. It's all in the roll of the dice. Bartley really does talk a good game next week at the shareholders meeting he will answer difficult questions with ease . He speaks very well but his man management of players is very poor not one would run through a brick wall for him . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandQueen Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Greenacres said: Bartley really does talk a good game next week at the shareholders meeting he will answer difficult questions with ease . He speaks very well but his man management of players is very poor not one would run through a brick wall for him . Would be interesting to know if this is true or not. No way of knowing. They don’t seem to be busting a gut for him at the moment judging from Saturday’s dont give a toss attitude from most of the players. Disappointing really as you would have thought they would give their all for another contract or at least for the fans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 56 minutes ago, HighlandQueen said: Would be interesting to know if this is true or not. No way of knowing. They don’t seem to be busting a gut for him at the moment judging from Saturday’s dont give a toss attitude from most of the players. Disappointing really as you would have thought they would give their all for another contract or at least for the fans I doubt very much if payers really bother about giving their all for the sake of fans nowadays, obviously they do all the badge kissing, etc when things are going well, but basically it's just a job they're doing. It was probably different back in the good old days when players stayed with a club for several years and built up a connection to the Club and fans, instead of getting just 1 or 2 year deals like now. Having said that I would be gobsmacked if any player went out with the mindset of deliberately not giving their all just because they don't like playing for the Manager. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annan4eva Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 25 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: I doubt very much if payers really bother about giving their all for the sake of fans nowadays, obviously they do all the badge kissing, etc when things are going well, but basically it's just a job they're doing. It was probably different back in the good old days when players stayed with a club for several years and built up a connection to the Club and fans, instead of getting just 1 or 2 year deals like now. Having said that I would be gobsmacked if any player went out with the mindset of deliberately not giving their all just because they don't like playing for the Manager. Be gobsmacked. Sunderland players have just demonstrated this to a man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera711 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, annan4eva said: Be gobsmacked. Sunderland players have just demonstrated this to a man. Another one who talks the talk. I wonder where he'll rock up next? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 55 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: I doubt very much if payers really bother about giving their all for the sake of fans nowadays, obviously they do all the badge kissing, etc when things are going well, but basically it's just a job they're doing. It was probably different back in the good old days when players stayed with a club for several years and built up a connection to the Club and fans, instead of getting just 1 or 2 year deals like now. Having said that I would be gobsmacked if any player went out with the mindset of deliberately not giving their all just because they don't like playing for the Manager. Agree with your first part, although there's still the odd exception to the rule (a certain Stephen Dobbie springs to mind). The days of players like Ball, Law, McChesney etc with a genuine passion for the club are long gone though. Don't agree with the last sentence though. There's plenty instances nowadays where players know that collectively they can oust a manager by not giving 100% for him and this is facilitated these days by all forms of social media where the players will be in contact with each other outside of the training periods and games. Managers need to be careful these days, they don't have quite the power they used to have. I'm not sure that Marvin's twigged this yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_palmy_pie Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 20 hours ago, SUPERSOUTH said: Is Ross Irving's move to Threave a loan deal or permanent? Heard Mixed stories... Permanent. He’s been paid up until the end of the season by Queens as he was under contract. Noticed he scored on his debut for Threave Rovers but was listed as a trialist. Let’s just say him and Bartley didn’t get on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bod Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 24 minutes ago, the_palmy_pie said: Permanent. He’s been paid up until the end of the season by Queens as he was under contract. Noticed he scored on his debut for Threave Rovers but was listed as a trialist. Let’s just say him and Bartley didn’t get on. What, another one? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 20 hours ago, Slipmat said: Not just the length of contract. I'm starting to think that he either demanded or was offered a ridiculously high salary for a rookie manager at our level. One way or another, I expect that through his gift of the gab he has hoodwinked the board into awarding him a much better contract than they may have initially considered offering the successful candidate, so keen were they to get their man. Is there much of a basis for believing this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's seems to be assuming a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjc-1988 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, Greenacres said: Bartley really does talk a good game next week at the shareholders meeting he will answer difficult questions with ease . He speaks very well but his man management of players is very poor not one would run through a brick wall for him . If he can genuinely talk his way out of this shambolic season that he has presided over it will take some doing . I can understand why the BOD appointed him because he had the potential to be a good appointment but unfortunately it quickly became apparent once the league season commenced post summer recruitment that we were likely to struggle badly. I think supporters of any club judge two main things when making their minds up on their Manager namely RESULTS and PERFORMANCES. Very often there is a genuine time lag in turning good positive performances into results but in all honesty can any Palmerston regular really say that performances offer any optimism whatsoever for better results? Frankly our performances are consistently poor and the only consistent thing about the results is that they mirror the uninspiring performances. People keep saying that he speaks well but my definition of a good speaker in a footballing context is someone who articulates "reality" and defines it coherently and explains what a realistic ambition level for the club is and the plan to get there. I totally accept how difficult it is to be a football manager when things are going badly but I don't get the feeling from his lengthy podcasts that our Manager really believes that he can turn things around. I just hope that we stay well clear of second bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipmat Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Is there much of a basis for believing this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's seems to be assuming a lot. No, all speculation on my part. Just thinking out loud and probably putting 2 and 2 together to make 5. With Gibson, the BOD appointed him on an interim basis before giving him the job permanently. Yet they gave his successor (who albeit was widely thought of as having potential but no experience in the hotseat) a lengthy contract based on...? Now I'm sure Gibson would have been on peanuts and inexpensive to dismiss, but even taking that into account it seems to me that the BOD had a major rethink of their methods of selecting a manager after a succession of internal promotions, bringing a previously successful manager back (Johnston), or in the case of Naysmith appointing someone who had recently been proven to be successful at East Fife (albeit his star was on the wane by the time he arrived at Palmerston). My way of thinking is, I guess, based on a BOD adopting this radical change in direction after years of going down the supposed safe route, combined with the difficulty they seem to be having in ridding the club of Bartley - assuming (again!) that they want to do so. Edited February 20 by Slipmat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Stuart Morrison, mind him? Currently Forfars top scorer and has scored again tonight to send Jobby McCalls Clyde closer to the abyss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, Slipmat said: No, all speculation on my part. Just thinking out loud. With Gibson, the BOD appointed him on an interim basis before giving him the job permanently. Yet they gave his successor (who albeit was widely thought of as having potential but no experience in the hotseat) a lengthy contract based on...? Now I'm sure Gibson would have been on peanuts and inexpensive to dismiss, but even taking that into account it seems to me that the BOD had a major rethink of their methods of selecting a manager after a succession of internal promotions, bringing a previously successful manager back (Johnston), or in the case of Naysmith appointing someone who had recently been proven to be successful at East Fife (albeit his star was on the wane by the time he arrived at Palmerston). My way of thinking is, I guess, based on a BOD adopting this radical change in direction after years of going down the supposed safe route, combined with the difficulty the seem to be having in ridding the club of Bartley - assuming (again!) that they want to do so. Yes, fair enough. Thinking aloud is er... allowed. You're maybe right - I just think it required a bit of a leap though, to suggest that Bartley's persuasive ways made the board depart from what they'd initially planned. I think that looking externally did indeed mark a change in recent direction, even if it meant another rookie. I also think a quest for stability might have prompted the relatively long contract. We'd had a fairly quick turnover, and it probably looked as if the worst we'd do this season would be to make the top 4. That would surely buy the manager the time and the right to have another go next time. In truth, the board probably didn't envisage it being this bad. I certainly didn't and I'm no optimist. I'm speculating here as well of course. I just think that the decision to award a longer contract probably looked sensible enough. I've no idea what Bartley is being paid in comparison to his predecessors, but I wouldn't have thought he was in a strong enough position on arrival, to demand that we break the bank for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunter Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Imo the club saw pound signs with the Lyndon Dykes move and decided the best route to take the club forward was by developing young players. The advantage was their wages are peanuts and if they do well you can flog them on and make some money. Never in a million years was the priority to assemble a squad to push for promotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenacres Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 9 hours ago, Kunter said: Imo the club saw pound signs with the Lyndon Dykes move and decided the best route to take the club forward was by developing young players. The advantage was their wages are peanuts and if they do well you can flog them on and make some money. Never in a million years was the priority to assemble a squad to push for promotion. The model of paying peanuts to young full time players just does not work on the pitch or more important financially . We need to get back to part time football. I am sure we could be at the top end in wages rather than pay poor full time wages . We have seen that at our level full time really means nothing unless you have a budget like a Hamilton or Falkirk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annan4eva Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 21 hours ago, Riviera711 said: Another one who talks the talk. I wonder where he'll rock up next? The fans were never going to have him from day 1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, annan4eva said: The fans were never going to have him from day 1. And in your long list of stupid posts, can you care to explain your reasoning here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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