palmy_cammy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ian McCall's parting shot was that he wasn't getting backed by the board and that we were four signings away from the SPL. A short time later we appeared in the Scottish cup final and the UEFA Cup. Although there is no denying Chisholm was backed by the board, far more so than he deserved to be. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but McCall was probably better placed contacts wise for Davie Rae's blank cheque policy than Chisholm. Perhaps if he'd got the four signings we would have won promotion. We'd also probably be languishing in the 2nd Division now though with crippling debt having pushed the boat out to achieve it, and probably had to ground-share with Motherwell. Had the current playoff system been in place for Chisholm we might have sneaked up, but again I don't see it being sustainable. There can be absolute no doubt that we are in a stronger position now, even if we are no closer to reaching the top flight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) McIntyre is our most recent ' moving ' to better things . Wonder how much better it will be for McIntyre to be back in the Championship slugging it out with us next season while being far away from his family's central base . This is if he is still there that is . Likelihood that a relegated team wants to start afresh boss wise and he could easily be in Scottish footballs wilderness. He has adopted a revolving door policy regarding players as he desperately tries to get a winning formula . It aint working I tell you . Another gamble and poor move ( in my opinion). Edited February 6, 2015 by JRS LEFT PEG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa_sheet Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 FTFY Haha like what you've done there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ian McCall's parting shot was that he wasn't getting backed by the board and that we were four signings away from the SPL. A short time later we appeared in the Scottish cup final and the UEFA Cup. Although there is no denying Chisholm was backed by the board, far more so than he deserved to be. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but McCall was probably better placed contacts wise for Davie Rae's blank cheque policy than Chisholm. Perhaps if he'd got the four signings we would have won promotion. We'd also probably be languishing in the 2nd Division now though with crippling debt having pushed the boat out to achieve it, and probably had to ground-share with Motherwell. Had the current playoff system been in place for Chisholm we might have sneaked up, but again I don't see it being sustainable. There can be absolute no doubt that we are in a stronger position now, even if we are no closer to reaching the top flight. Promotion? Under McCall? I know its Friday night but you've started early 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 McCall didn't move on to go to Thistle so I wouldn't even have considered him in the question and though he certainly didn't do a bad job there, I wouldn't say he was an unmitigated success either To be fair, no one said he left us to go to Thistle. Qos1990 asked if any manager who left us had had success elsewhere. He may have meant left us to directly take over another club, but I never read it that way. I read it as a manager leaving us and seeing how they got on at the next club they managed. I wouldn't say he was a massive success either, but he certainly never flopped like our other ex-managers have/did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 To be fair, no one said he left us to go to Thistle. Qos1990 asked if any manager who left us had had success elsewhere. He may have meant left us to directly take over another club, but I never read it that way. I read it as a manager leaving us and seeing how they got on at the next club they managed. I wouldn't say he was a massive success either, but he certainly never flopped like our other ex-managers have/did. Yes I agree. McCall's time at Thistle was much like his time with us. A bit "meh". It was neither a disaster nor any great success but he probably left both clubs better than he found them. Will be interesting to see how he does at Ayr after so long away from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) To be fair, no one said he left us to go to Thistle.Is there not a suggestion that he pretty much did do that though?I remember talk on here of him being seen suited and booted at Firhill, when still with us. His departure was also odd. His reasons about a lack of financial backing seemed to lack weight, given the denials offered at the time; the support that he had been given and the fact that his successor was backed in a way that with hindsight, was unwise. The fact that it wasn't long at all until he was unveiled at Patrick also suggests to me that in effect, he did leave us for them, even if it wasn't in the direct way that others have moved on. As said, his record with us was indifferent, although as with Thistle, he maybe played a significant part in paving the way for future successes. He probably deserves a knighthood for bringing us Dobbie, but it was the self-promotion that was irritating. As SD points out, the great escape performed under him, only needed to be as great because of a dreadful start under him which saw the points gap between us and those above, multiply. It also relied on a massive post-Jenkins collapse at Stranraer. I also think he handled the BJ Corr situation really badly, ensuring that the guy's confidence couldn't recover. Edited February 7, 2015 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 There haven't actually been many since to leave us by their own choice though. Just Connolly (in 2004 to St Johnstone), Chisholm (in 2010 to Dundee), Johnston (in 2013 to Kilmarnock) and McIntyre (in 2014 to Ross County). Is that not quite a lot? Four managers in a ten year period tempted away to bigger and/or top flight clubs, strikes me as quite a high number (That's not counting McCall who arguably deserves inclusion). It raises questions as to why it's happened. During that spell we've had one terrific big Cup run, enjoyed some Challenge Cup success and - Gus apart - been a stable second tier fixture. For me, this represents having us punching at our weight, but I think the perception still exists that this represents us overachieving. The fact that these managers consistently fail to work such 'miracles' at their new clubs might suggest they weren't necessarily up to all that much here, either. That said, I'd happily have Johnston back or probably even Connolly, although his time appears to have now passed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Is there not a suggestion that he pretty much did do that though? . Only from you. It isnt the first time you've claimed that to be the case despite being informed more than once that it wasnt the case. I have never seen anyone else suggest it.He fell into the Thistle job a few weeks after leaving us, a departure that wasnt remotely by his own choice even if the mutual consent line was peddled at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Only from you. It isnt the first time you've claimed that to be the case despite being informed more than once that it wasnt the case. I have never seen anyone else suggest it. He fell into the Thistle job a few weeks after leaving us, a departure that wasnt remotely by his own choice even if the mutual consent line was peddled at the time. Have I? I didn't press on despite having you disagree with me did I? Outrageous behaviour. I do recall Thistle rumours circulating on here before he left us. They might have involved the addition of 2 and 2, because of where he lived, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't start all of them single handedly. Are you saying that he was effectively dismissed by Queens then? What were the reasons for this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmy_cammy Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Is that not quite a lot? Four managers in a ten year period tempted away to bigger and/or top flight clubs, strikes me as quite a high number (That's not counting McCall who arguably deserves inclusion). It raises questions as to why it's happened. During that spell we've had one terrific big Cup run, enjoyed some Challenge Cup success and - Gus apart - been a stable second tier fixture. For me, this represents having us punching at our weight, but I think the perception still exists that this represents us overachieving. The fact that these managers consistently fail to work such 'miracles' at their new clubs might suggest they weren't necessarily up to all that much here, either. That said, I'd happily have Johnston back or probably even Connolly, although his time appears to have now passed. I was going to make a similar post to this one. Although there are a number of other factors, I certainly agree that what we view as having us "punch our weight" probably still appears as "working miracles" to the wider populace. I'm sure after one of the occasions we beat The Rangers it was labelled an embarrassment for that mob to have once again lost to a bunch of plumbers and builders. Not only patronising to the genuine part-time clubs, but also factually inaccurate. I suppose in nearly 100 years of existence people can't get their head round Doonhamers so you have to expect very little when it comes to knowledge and understanding of our club. Connolly and Johnstone, age-aside, probably moved on following very similar circumstances. Both had a league and Challenge Cup double, although Connolly also managed to follow up his promotion with a solid finish in the league above. He probably earned the right to move to a club he is well thought of at, and who were and still are a bigger club than Queens. Of course a lot of his success with us came from his use of the North East of England market, and the sheer volume of players he could use. Neither policy was going to be successful at St Johnstone. Allan Johnston showed signs of real potential as an up and coming manager with us, winning the fans over by clearing out the Gus signings no-one wanted and strengthening the areas that we felt needed strengthening. Playing in a largely part-time league helped his cause no-end, so a huge amount of credit has to go to the board for keeping us full-time. He also had the advantage of having played in the team that was relegated, thus having first hand experience of where the problems lay. Again a move to a club where he is a hero was impossible to turn down. Although we were sad to see him go, he was yet to prove himself at the level we have traditionally found ourselves in the last 15 years or so, never mind the league above. I'm sure he viewed it as a gamble worth taking, but it was certainly a gamble by both parties, and one that didn't pay off. Chisholm and McIntyre both left with minimal of fuss raised from our fans. In fact Chisholm's departure was largely celebrated as not only did it mean we got rid of a hopeless manager, but it also weakened a rival. It was a very strange move by Dundee and one that I don't think was really welcomed by their fans either. Again he was joining a club he had a history with, but I can't help but feel he was appointed based on a view that he was doing sterling work with a diddy team, when the truth was oh so different. Looking at where Dundee are now, and the potential they have you can see why it was an attractive move for a manager, but he certainly hadn't earned it and it was no surprise to see him and the moronic Dodds out on their ears shortly afterwards. The strangest of the lot though is probably McIntyre. His time with us was distinctly beige, with us just plodding along where we should be. Complacency isn't a word associated with Queens fans very often and considering the lows we've experienced, beating those we should be beating whilst narrowly losing to those above us shouldn't be taken for granted. It's exactly how life was under McIntyre though. Comfortable, but lacking in excitement. He obviously felt the challenge of saving County from relegation was more achievable than the challenge of promoting us. It's probably true and he'll have improved his wage, and now gets to enjoy the glamour of losing at venues such as Celtic Park and Pittodrie, which are often given as reasons why moving to the Premiership is a no-brainer (as everyone knows games at Championship level and below are played on public parks, no stadiums involved). He could well find himself the latest in the dole queue, irrespective of where Country finish this season. If Fowler has any sense he will think very careful before making his next move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I was going to make a similar post to this one. Although there are a number of other factors, I certainly agree that what we view as having us "punch our weight" probably still appears as "working miracles" to the wider populace. I'm sure after one of the occasions we beat The Rangers it was labelled an embarrassment for that mob to have once again lost to a bunch of plumbers and builders. Not only patronising to the genuine part-time clubs, but also factually inaccurate. I suppose in nearly 100 years of existence people can't get their head round Doonhamers so you have to expect very little when it comes to knowledge and understanding of our club. Connolly and Johnstone, age-aside, probably moved on following very similar circumstances. Both had a league and Challenge Cup double, although Connolly also managed to follow up his promotion with a solid finish in the league above. He probably earned the right to move to a club he is well thought of at, and who were and still are a bigger club than Queens. Of course a lot of his success with us came from his use of the North East of England market, and the sheer volume of players he could use. Neither policy was going to be successful at St Johnstone. Allan Johnston showed signs of real potential as an up and coming manager with us, winning the fans over by clearing out the Gus signings no-one wanted and strengthening the areas that we felt needed strengthening. Playing in a largely part-time league helped his cause no-end, so a huge amount of credit has to go to the board for keeping us full-time. He also had the advantage of having played in the team that was relegated, thus having first hand experience of where the problems lay. Again a move to a club where he is a hero was impossible to turn down. Although we were sad to see him go, he was yet to prove himself at the level we have traditionally found ourselves in the last 15 years or so, never mind the league above. I'm sure he viewed it as a gamble worth taking, but it was certainly a gamble by both parties, and one that didn't pay off. Chisholm and McIntyre both left with minimal of fuss raised from our fans. In fact Chisholm's departure was largely celebrated as not only did it mean we got rid of a hopeless manager, but it also weakened a rival. It was a very strange move by Dundee and one that I don't think was really welcomed by their fans either. Again he was joining a club he had a history with, but I can't help but feel he was appointed based on a view that he was doing sterling work with a diddy team, when the truth was oh so different. Looking at where Dundee are now, and the potential they have you can see why it was an attractive move for a manager, but he certainly hadn't earned it and it was no surprise to see him and the moronic Dodds out on their ears shortly afterwards. The strangest of the lot though is probably McIntyre. His time with us was distinctly beige, with us just plodding along where we should be. Complacency isn't a word associated with Queens fans very often and considering the lows we've experienced, beating those we should be beating whilst narrowly losing to those above us shouldn't be taken for granted. It's exactly how life was under McIntyre though. Comfortable, but lacking in excitement. He obviously felt the challenge of saving County from relegation was more achievable than the challenge of promoting us. It's probably true and he'll have improved his wage, and now gets to enjoy the glamour of losing at venues such as Celtic Park and Pittodrie, which are often given as reasons why moving to the Premiership is a no-brainer (as everyone knows games at Championship level and below are played on public parks, no stadiums involved). He could well find himself the latest in the dole queue, irrespective of where Country finish this season. If Fowler has any sense he will think very careful before making his next move. Spot on, especially in assessment of Chisholm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broony88 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 3,043. 1800-1900 in new stand 700-800 behind goals. So only 300 in main stand and enclosure. I wonder how many are missing off that total. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERSOUTH Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 3,043. 1800-1900 in new stand 700-800 behind goals. So only 300 in main stand and enclosure. I wonder how many are missing off that total. Who cares! We have just beat the cup holders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broony88 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Who cares! We have just beat the cup holders. We hadn't at 4pm. Great win though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERSOUTH Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Rangers away on the 7th March will be rearranged because of the cup quarter finals.???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well in, Queens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthetop Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 3,043. 1800-1900 in new stand 700-800 behind goals. So only 300 in main stand and enclosure. I wonder how many are missing off that total. Was there 700 less in the ground than Hibs game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 3,043. 1800-1900 in new stand 700-800 behind goals. So only 300 in main stand and enclosure. I wonder how many are missing off that total. I'd knock a couple of hundred off the new stand and probably double that off the terracing, which looked very empty today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broony88 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) I'd knock a couple of hundred off the new stand and probably double that off the terracing, which looked very empty today.New stand holds 2,200 I think. There was not 500 empty seats in there. Was easily 7-800 behind that goal maybe more. I think the crowd was easily nearer 4,000 than 3,000 today. Saints had 1,200 we had far more than 1,800 at the game today. Edited February 7, 2015 by Broony88 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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