Deposit Return Recycling Scheme

[ScotiaNostra]

The fact its delayed again is another example that the SNP struggle to form policy that they are actually able to implement, another sign  of lack of good governance. Good at the soundbites not so good at the practicality

Edited April 19, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[Paco]

Certainly not going to defend this scheme or Lorna Slater, but I do think the “ma recycling gets collected so what’s the issue” argument probably doesn't quite stack up. You may well nicely put out your recycling, but what happens to it beyond that? Out of sight, out of mind for the consumer but it hasn’t yet been recycled successfully.

The reality tends to vary by area - in Edinburgh there is a fairly new large plant at Millerhill which I believe is good at separating plastics  “properly”. Which is just as well, I use a communal bin and I’ve seen everything from old furniture to dead animals chucked into the plastics bin. I don’t think every area has such plants, so some eejit not separating properly can have a pretty big impact further down the line. 

There’s also the reality that plastic is not an infinite resource. In reality a plastic bottle can only be recycled a few times. I would assume there is an aim to make producers responsible for that? 

Some councils already don’t offer glass collection, or only do it in certain areas, so plenty people already trek to the supermarket to chuck it in bins. Or if they can’t be arsed it goes to landfill. Glass basically can be recycled forever so a financial incentive here is useful. 

I’ve never bothered to read the specifics of this particular proposal because it’s always been clear it isn’t happening. And my gut says it needs to be UK-wide. But in general terms, what I’m really trying to say is just because your old cans and bottles get collected from your door doesn’t mean the problem is gone. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Paco

[strichener]

23 minutes ago, Paco said:

Certainly not going to defend this scheme or Lorna Slater, but I do think the “ma recycling gets collected so what’s the issue” argument probably doesn't quite stack up. You may well nicely put out your recycling, but what happens to it beyond that? Out of sight, out of mind for the consumer but it hasn’t yet been recycled successfully.

The reality tends to vary by area - in Edinburgh there is a fairly new large plant at Millerhill which I believe is good at separating plastics  “properly”. Which is just as well, I use a communal bin and I’ve seen everything from old furniture to dead animals chucked into the plastics bin. I don’t think every area has such plants, so some eejit not separating properly can have a pretty big impact further down the line. 

There’s also the reality that plastic is not an infinite resource. In reality a plastic bottle can only be recycled a few times. I would assume there is an aim to make producers responsible for that? 

Some councils already don’t offer glass collection, or only do it in certain areas, so plenty people already trek to the supermarket to chuck it in bins. Or if they can’t be arsed it goes to landfill. Glass basically can be recycled forever so a financial incentive here is useful. 

I’ve never bothered to read the specifics of this particular proposal because it’s always been clear it isn’t happening. And my gut says it needs to be UK-wide. But in general terms, what I’m really trying to say is just because your old cans and bottles get collected from your door doesn’t mean the problem is gone. 

It's the responsibility of the council to make sure their recycling schemes are fit for purpose. That is why the get government funding to implement these.

However, good luck trying to make consumers responsible for the lifecycle of every product they need to use when the issue actually sits with producers.  How many products are there where the plastic film is not recyclable.  Do we charge the manufacturer 20p per item to encourage them to use a more environmentally friendly material? If not, why not?

 

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Artemis said:

Retailers who provide home deliveries from online orders were supposed to offer a “takeback” facility, effectively a collection.
However, I think after representations from retailers, the suggestion was that the scheme for deliveries for online orders would only be implemented in full in 2025 and would then only apply to the large supermarkets.
There is a bit about it in this update from December 2022 in the “Online takeback” section.

DRS update

 

 

So not really a solution to those that don't physically visit a shop. Probably won't matter anyway as DRS will not be implemented before 2025.  No matter how many recycling facilities Aldi build in their carparks.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 hours ago, razamanaz said:

It's like the self-service tills in the supermarkets - you do the work for no-one's benefit but them

But on the plus side you don't have to engage in pointless chit chat about how nice the weather is. Well worth it imo. 

[Uncle Monty]

40 minutes ago, orfc said:

You say that like some wee arsehole isn't inevitably going to do the same to these machines by pouring their drink in it or trying to hammer a milk carton in. I remember in Germany seeing streetside cigarette vending machines that wouldn't last the day here....

If you want more recycling it needs to be made easier, not harder and not more expensive

There is a strong argument for a national recycling policy whereby every local authority matches each other in terms of what can be recycled. It seems daft that (e.g.) yoghurt pots, margarine tubs and fruit punnets cannot be recycled in Glasgow (and how many Glaswegians wouldn’t know this), but 10-15 miles away (e.g. in North Lanarkshire), they can be recycled.

[Shipa]

2 hours ago, Paco said:

Certainly not going to defend this scheme or Lorna Slater, but I do think the “ma recycling gets collected so what’s the issue” argument probably doesn't quite stack up. You may well nicely put out your recycling, but what happens to it beyond that? Out of sight, out of mind for the consumer but it hasn’t yet been recycled successfully.

The reality tends to vary by area - in Edinburgh there is a fairly new large plant at Millerhill which I believe is good at separating plastics  “properly”. Which is just as well, I use a communal bin and I’ve seen everything from old furniture to dead animals chucked into the plastics bin. I don’t think every area has such plants, so some eejit not separating properly can have a pretty big impact further down the line. 

There’s also the reality that plastic is not an infinite resource. In reality a plastic bottle can only be recycled a few times. I would assume there is an aim to make producers responsible for that? 

Some councils already don’t offer glass collection, or only do it in certain areas, so plenty people already trek to the supermarket to chuck it in bins. Or if they can’t be arsed it goes to landfill. Glass basically can be recycled forever so a financial incentive here is useful. 

I’ve never bothered to read the specifics of this particular proposal because it’s always been clear it isn’t happening. And my gut says it needs to be UK-wide. But in general terms, what I’m really trying to say is just because your old cans and bottles get collected from your door doesn’t mean the problem is gone. 

While it is true that we don't know what happens to our kerbside collections after they have been picked up, would the same not apply under the return scheme, in that once it goes back to the shop and is collected from there, it is also then out of sight?

A big concern for me with this scheme is the question of how much recycling will increase. A fair amount of what is not recycled will be down to people having difficulties with doing it, rather than not wanting to. There will be people who do not fully understand what can/cannot go in the recycling bin, and so will not put stuff in just in case. There will be people with MH issues, addiction, additional needs etc. who simply cannot cope with dealing with recycling; this scheme is not going to suddenly change how these people cope, make them into recycling heroes, on the contrary these people, who will be often at the poorest end of society, will simply be hit further in the pocket.

[Rugster]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

It's the responsibility of the council to make sure their recycling schemes are fit for purpose. That is why the get government funding to implement these.

However, good luck trying to make consumers responsible for the lifecycle of every product they need to use when the issue actually sits with producers.  How many products are there where the plastic film is not recyclable.  Do we charge the manufacturer 20p per item to encourage them to use a more environmentally friendly material? If not, why not?

 

Businesses are liable for plastic tax if they import or manufacture plastic which is not at least 30% recycled. £200 odd per tonne. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Rugster

[strichener]

35 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Businesses are liable for plastic tax if they import or manufacture plastic which is not at least 30% recycled. £200 odd per tonne. 

Recycled but not recyclable.  Only applies when the business imports or manufactures more than 10 tons.  The equivalent DRS charge is £6000 per tonne on consumers.

[10menwent2mow]

I must admit I'm not very clued up on this but how is it going to work for pubs and restaurants. Are they going to pass on the charge to the customer and then give them 20p back if they bring their bottle back to the bar. Are bars and restaurants going to have to count how many bottles are in their bottle bins?? Sounds like utter nonsense to me. 

ETA - I've just read the sepa guidelines and I still can't make any sense of it.

Edited April 19, 2023 by 10menwent2mow

[sophia]

10 hours ago, itzdrk said:

That's very Tory. 

It has already been well established that in this context it most certainly is not.

I compared it to road tax for some very good reasons and one of those was so pendants would be able to contribute to the debate and I see @Benjamin_Nevishas duly obliged.

More broadly there is an imperative to improve our collective lot in terms of our environment and protecting it, so those that are suggesting we are good as we are, might just have to be open to change.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

12 minutes ago, sophia said:

 I compared it to road tax for some very good reasons and one of those was so pendants would be able to contribute to the debate and I see @Benjamin_Nevishas duly obliged.

"Pendants"

You are an absolute lunatic. 

[sophia]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

"Pendants"

You are an absolute lunatic. 

Are you 100% sure I didn't throw that in for devilment?

 

 

 

I didn't, it was poor grasp of quality control but that does not make my lunacy absolute 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 hours ago, sophia said:

Are you 100% sure I didn't throw that in for devilment?

I didn't, it was poor grasp of quality control but that does not make my lunacy absolute 

Just stop man, this is Kincardine levels of awful. 

[itzdrk]

3 hours ago, sophia said:

It has already been well established that in this context it most certainly is not.

I compared it to road tax for some very good reasons and one of those was so pendants would be able to contribute to the debate and I see @Benjamin_Nevishas duly obliged.

More broadly there is an imperative to improve our collective lot in terms of our environment and protecting it, so those that are suggesting we are good as we are, might just have to be open to change.

It's well established that it is. 

[Soapy FFC]

Bottled water is probably the best example of needless plastic bottles. If you take a trip to Costco people are filling their trolleys with packs of still water, each containing 40 bottles for about £5. I would hazard a guess that most of that water will be consumed at home where there will be a perfectly good supply of fresh water already there from the tap. Costco may be the worst example due to how relatively inexpensive the water is, but every supermarket is the same, shelves full of a bottled product that is already available at home for free. We seem to have been sold the idea by a drinks industry that bottled water is superior to everyday tap water, when in most cases it probably isn’t.

There has been mention of the CO2 that will be expended by people taking their bottles back under a DRS, but that pales into insignificance when compared to the CO2 that is expended transporting bottles of water about the country so that people don’t have to turn on the tap in the kitchen.

Ending our love affair with bottled water would be one big step towards sorting our plastic problem.

[alta-pete]

It’s happening! But glass excluded. Which makes no sense as our Council does not uplift glass so we have to take to the bottle bank anyway, but they do uplift cans and plastic bottles from the kerbside but now we’ve got to do it ourselves. 
 

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2023/05/uk-to-agree-deal-on-deposit-return-scheme/amp/

[The Master]

On the face of it, it seems a sensible compromise. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, it would be ridiculous to have separate schemes in different parts of the UK, requiring different barcodes for the same items. 

It seems odd that glass is excluded, though.

[FFCinthearea]

42 minutes ago, The Master said:

On the face of it, it seems a sensible compromise. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, it would be ridiculous to have separate schemes in different parts of the UK, requiring different barcodes for the same items. 

It seems odd that glass is excluded, though.

Most glass is already recycled.   

[ScotiaNostra]

You get the feeling Slater deosnt want it to be allowed to go ahead