Raith vs Queen’s Park, 2 Sept 2023

[Raithie]

Vaughan cupping his ear to the QP bench, hopefully he made eye contact with Thomas

[mcjameos]

Just now, Raithie said:

Vaughan cupping his ear to the QP bench, hopefully he made eye contact with Thomas

Noticed a few comments about Dom Thomas from Raith fans. Why the dislike? 

[ribzanelli]

It’s a painful red card to take and many referees would have settled for a yellow but it certainly isn’t a horrendous decision. Bear in mind he doesn’t have the protractor and compass like all the Jamie Carraghers on here to work out the speed of the other defender, the acceleration of forward and defender, the direction of the prevailing wind. It’s a foul and he’s probably the last man. Either card was only ever likely to satisfy 50% of the parties involved.

[Kirkcaldybanjo]

On 02/09/2023 at 16:37, TxRover said:

2,489

2984 you mean

[Scottydog]

2 hours ago, mcjameos said:

Noticed a few comments about Dom Thomas from Raith fans. Why the dislike? 

1, He played for the Pars.

2, I think He recited a move to us at one point.

3, He is an utter bell end.

 

On to the game it's self.

The red card thing has been done to death with most of us agreeing it was a soft award, thing is though Tizzard is first and foremost an absolute clown for giving the ref a decision to make, if as some are saying Fox would have caught him (and for the record I doubt it) then Tizzard is even more stupid than we are giving him credit for. 

The 1st 10 mins after the red card Queens were all at sea and we really should have cleaned up, but we didn't and Queens got organised, so much so it was difficult to say who had 10 and who had 11 men on the park, and ladies and gentlemen that what boiled my piss. Queens went compact and did a great job and we let them. Did we stretch them and take advantage of of the extra man? Did we hookey!

Rovers never seem to do too brilliantly against 10 men.

[Hank Scorpio]

Dom Thomas bends it up us every time he scores against us (which is often), so we enjoy giving him it back. Not a lot else to it. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Hank Scorpio

[TxRover]

24 minutes ago, Kirkcaldybanjo said:

2984 you mean

It was mentioned incorrectly on the RaithTV coverage, it was indeed 2,984.

[CALDERON]

1 hour ago, Scottydog said:

1, He played for the Pars.

2, I think He recited a move to us at one point.

3, He is an utter bell end.

 

On to the game it's self.

The red card thing has been done to death with most of us agreeing it was a soft award, thing is though Tizzard is first and foremost an absolute clown for giving the ref a decision to make, if as some are saying Fox would have caught him (and for the record I doubt it) then Tizzard is even more stupid than we are giving him credit for. 

The 1st 10 mins after the red card Queens were all at sea and we really should have cleaned up, but we didn't and Queens got organised, so much so it was difficult to say who had 10 and who had 11 men on the park, and ladies and gentlemen that what boiled my piss. Queens went compact and did a great job and we let them. Did we stretch them and take advantage of of the extra man? Did we hookey!

Rovers never seem to do too brilliantly against 10 men.

To be fair, both goals came from stretching the play and using the extra man.  

[Scottydog]

2 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

To be fair, both goals came from stretching the play and using the extra man.  

Both of which happened in the last 8 mins, the 50-60 mins before that though?

What we did in the last 10 mins was more of what we should have been doing the whole of the 2nd half.

[mcjameos]

1 hour ago, Scottydog said:

1, He played for the Pars.

Oh yeah, forgot about that . Fair enough. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

13 hours ago, Scottydog said:

Both of which happened in the last 8 mins, the 50-60 mins before that though?

What we did in the last 10 mins was more of what we should have been doing the whole of the 2nd half.

That would be the same 10 mins that our new coach, who comes to work on a unicorn, decided to swap three players at the same time - never a clever thing - who were experienced and having good games, for three rookies? 

[an86]

8 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

That would be the same 10 mins that our new coach, who comes to work on a unicorn, decided to swap three players at the same time - never a clever thing - who were experienced and having good games, for three rookies? 

I know Marijn Beuker’s philosophy involves throwing young players into situations that are almost too hard for them. However, I draw a massive, massive red line when it comes to doing it at first team level when we’re in a winning position. If Young QP are in a similar situation, crack on. That’s what it’s there for.

We’re a professional club trying to develop young players. That’s different from being an actual youth development team. Results matter at first time level. People are giving up their time, paying good money and expect us to do everything possible to pick up maximum points. The coach let both the players and the fans down on Saturday. He had a lot of good will banked, but those reserves have now been dipped into a wee bit. He can learn and improve as well, but those changes felt like a massive red flag to me. That can’t happen again.
 

That last ten minutes was all on him. He possibly succeeded in damaging the morale of our established players, while flinging the younger boys under a bus. No blame on them at all. I’ve given him credit for the way he’s approached things, so far, but I can’t make an excuse for that. I doubt anyone could.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

14 minutes ago, an86 said:

Results matter at first time level. People are giving up their time, paying good money and expect us to do everything possible to pick up maximum points.

People more cynical than me might have wondered why we got cheaper tickets this season than last. Maybe this is why. The notion that we could seriously be trying to get promoted this season seems unlikely despite what Veldman says about winning games. We’ve just offered all these new guys 3 year contracts which means they would form the core of our squad in the Premiership next season 🫨 We’ve obviously got to transition at some stage but surely confidence and a winning mentality would help generate that? Or are all the kids doped on the KoolAid and believing the future is bright, the future is Oranj. 

Beuker said something in the podcast about aiming for promotion this year. Sacrificing wins so a kiddy can get 10 mins to get the stats looking right (remember Beuker’s performance metric at AZ was all about the number of “first team minutes”) isn’t the pathway to greater things. 

[Gall09]

Gutted about the way it ended. We had McKenna to thank for keeping us in it. The players deserve massive credit for how we turned it around. Veldman has a lot to answer for. Hopefully he’s learned from it. As much as it’s a process, the first team is not a project. 
 

Also, as I mentioned on Twitter, shout out to the Raith TV commentators. The most level headed club channel commentators I’ve heard. They were excellent. 

[R.R.FC]

How has Barry Hepburn been for QP? Was Saturday the norm or just a bad day at the office?

Thought McKenna and Spong were the clear standouts for Queens Park. As a Scotland fan, McKenna’s performance was very exciting. Calm and composed on the ball but made some excellent saves and even dealt with a few crosses well. Certainly doesn’t look like a 16 year old both in terms of performance and stature.

Spong hardly gave the ball away all day and has that gift of always seeming like he has loads of time on the ball due to his ability to find space. Looked a class act.

[qpfc]

48 minutes ago, R.R.FC said:

How has Barry Hepburn been for QP? Was Saturday the norm or just a bad day at the office?

Thought McKenna and Spong were the clear standouts for Queens Park. As a Scotland fan, McKenna’s performance was very exciting. Calm and composed on the ball but made some excellent saves and even dealt with a few crosses well. Certainly doesn’t look like a 16 year old both in terms of performance and stature.

Spong hardly gave the ball away all day and has that gift of always seeming like he has loads of time on the ball due to his ability to find space. Looked a class act.

I like Hepburn. Naturally he’ll get attention from opposition fans a bit more considering the club he’s came from but he’s a very talented boy and he’s done well overall so far but he’s incredibly lightweight. Having someone like him on the pitch with 10 men against an experienced side away from home, he was always going to struggle 

Aye Spong has been our best signing so far IMO. Was worried we couldn’t replace Mal Boateng but I’d goes as far to say he may end up being even better than him. Thankfully compared to Boateng, he’s on a permanent contract. You can tell by the way he plays, he’s been brought up in the Brighton academy 

[Alan Twelve]

1 hour ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

People more cynical than me might have wondered why we got cheaper tickets this season than last. Maybe this is why. The notion that we could seriously be trying to get promoted this season seems unlikely despite what Veldman says about winning games. We’ve just offered all these new guys 3 year contracts which means they would form the core of our squad in the Premiership next season 🫨 We’ve obviously got to transition at some stage but surely confidence and a winning mentality would help generate that? Or are all the kids doped on the KoolAid and believing the future is bright, the future is Oranj. 

Beuker said something in the podcast about aiming for promotion this year. Sacrificing wins so a kiddy can get 10 mins to get the stats looking right (remember Beuker’s performance metric at AZ was all about the number of “first team minutes”) isn’t the pathway to greater things. 

Being devil's advocate about this:

1 - It's possible that the experience and lessons learned on Saturday will mean more than the three points will be saved or gained later in the season, or next season. Better to be thrown on through choice in an early season league game than through necessity in a cup tie, for example.

2 - The late subs on Saturday don't seem any more mad than, and come from the same mentality as, sticking a 16-year-old in as first choice keeper, and that's going OK. 

I do think that we have to accept that there will be days like Saturday if we're going to stick with the youth development route, and that we have to trust that in the medium and long terms the ends will justify the means. However, I also think that taking off both Robson of and Thomas was batshit insane.

[Velvet Donkey]

40 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

Being devil's advocate about this:

1 - It's possible that the experience and lessons learned on Saturday will mean more than the three points will be saved or gained later in the season, or next season. Better to be thrown on through choice in an early season league game than through necessity in a cup tie, for example.

2 - The late subs on Saturday don't seem any more mad than, and come from the same mentality as, sticking a 16-year-old in as first choice keeper, and that's going OK. 

I do think that we have to accept that there will be days like Saturday if we're going to stick with the youth development route, and that we have to trust that in the medium and long terms the ends will justify the means. However, I also think that taking off both Robson of and Thomas was batshit insane.

Fair enough points. I did think it was necessary to get fresh legs on the park with ten men, and to counter the strong Raith subs, and it's always going to be a gamble. I don't really get the thinking behind Liam McLeish on, and the choice of Robson and Thomas off.

Rather than it all being about the substitutions, I'm a bit more worried at the uncompromising lack of balance or alternatives in the approach: not seeing that a really high line wasn't working with the Raith attack, perhaps over-playing in attack and taking too many risks in the six yard box etc. But most of all a subs bench of promising youngsters at the expense of at least one or two experience players and game-changers.

Having said that it looks likely we will achieve our objectives and get an important year of development in the Championship without getting relegated.

[Spider1975]

2 hours ago, Velvet Donkey said:

I did think it was necessary to get fresh legs on the park with ten men, and to counter the strong Raith subs, and it's always going to be a gamble. I don't really get the thinking behind Liam McLeish on, and the choice of Robson and Thomas off.

I can understand the thought process behind putting fresh legs on, but why unbalance a team that's coping admirably by making all three substitutions at the same time?

[Spider1975]

5 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

People more cynical than me might have wondered why we got cheaper tickets this season than last. Maybe this is why. The notion that we could seriously be trying to get promoted this season seems unlikely despite what Veldman says about winning games. We’ve just offered all these new guys 3 year contracts which means they would form the core of our squad in the Premiership next season 🫨 We’ve obviously got to transition at some stage but surely confidence and a winning mentality would help generate that? Or are all the kids doped on the KoolAid and believing the future is bright, the future is Oranj. 

Beuker said something in the podcast about aiming for promotion this year. Sacrificing wins so a kiddy can get 10 mins to get the stats looking right (remember Beuker’s performance metric at AZ was all about the number of “first team minutes”) isn’t the pathway to greater things. 

On the big list of 2023/4 KPI's at QPHQ, I doubt very much that promotion is high on the agenda, (certainly lower than finding a 'chandelier service provider', or 'official landscaping partner'.  Even if it was, as has been mentioned, the squad depth at the moment just isn't there and we're certainly only maybe two, even maybe just one injury away from a potential dog-fight at the bottom.

Despite how it might sound, I'm fully behind the project, but as stated elsewhere, Veldman (& Beuker for that matter) do need to realise a certain amount of pragmatism too, as I cant imagine the bean counters would be overly pleased with a dip down to L1.  I'm sure it was a fun debrief today!