Getting rid of VAR in Scottish football

[10menwent2mow]

It's also very telling that having had it for a couple of seasons now it appears that the majority would rather go back to the questionable standards of Scottish refs. That is a pretty poor reflection of the merits of VAR

Edited October 14, 2023 by 10menwent2mow

[Sarto Mutiny]

By and large, the pundits now bumping their gums about VAR are exactly the same ones who were clamouring for it to be introduced in the first place. They're all arseholes and best ignored.

VAR was introduced as a fait accompli by the clubs without paying the slightest regard to what the fans thought, and there is no way they're suddenly going to have a change of heart because an arguable decision went against Scotland on Thursday night. With very few exceptions, the clubs don't give a shit what we think. 

[LuboMoravcik]

1 hour ago, Zamora Fan said:

 

 

 

It is only here to stay if we let it stay.

I don't see it that way. I hate the way VAR has been implemented and agree with a lot of the complaints against it, but I feel like we're pissing against the wind in terms of trying to get rid of it. It's wanted at the top levels of the sport and has filtered down accordingly.

Edited October 14, 2023 by LuboMoravcik

[bennett]

53 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Likewise, with VAR we probably would never have gotten this moment - 

 Inverness fans running on to the pitch to pull down celtic players should have been dealt with by the referee tbh.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

One of the main reasons that they stick to a single half is so that each of them can only focus on offside decisions against a single team. Imagine both of them were up one end and then the defending team won the ball back and launched a big boot up the park. Both assistants would be down the other end about 50 yards away and wouldn't have a clue whether it was offside or not.

And your South Stand assistant today is Usain Bolt.

[54_and_counting]

On 13/10/2023 at 08:38, Dunfermline Don said:

For me VAR has totally destroyed the enjoyment of going to top flight games.  A goal can no longer be celebrated as the checks find that someone’s toe has been a couple of millimetres in front of a defender.

I much prefer going along to watch championships matches now. Football is a fast paced game and should be all about spontaneous reactions not a stop start game like Rugby where the TMO seems to work well. 

If VAR was to stay the refs needs to be miked up so everyone can hear what is being discussed. 

Pointless miking up the refs as most fans, pundits and even ex refs dont know the latest guidelines etc

Look at the fallout from the roofe goal in the OF game, ex refs, pundits etc all saying it wasnt a foul or that VAR shouldn't have gotten involved, when in fact VAR getting involved meant the rules were followed and a foul leading to a goal wasnt missed

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I'd argue that the standard of officiating in Scotland has got worse because in my opinion the refs are leaning too much on the technology and not making decisions in real time. They seem to be making a hell of a lot of 'clear and obvious errors' judging by how much VAR is being used. 

They were still making these errors previously, the amount known depended on how long the sportscene highlights were lol

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Pointless miking up the refs as most fans, pundits and even ex refs dont know the latest guidelines etc

Look at the fallout from the roofe goal in the OF game, ex refs, pundits etc all saying it wasnt a foul or that VAR shouldn't have gotten involved, when in fact VAR getting involved meant the rules were followed and a foul leading to a goal wasnt missed

Talk me through the logic here. People don’t understand what’s going on so why would we add information to help them understand what’s going on?

Also basing any sort of decision on the quality of punditry for an OF game is too stupid even for the SFA/SPFL. 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Donathan said:

Erm, no. I’ve not seen the incident in question so I’d invite you to provide a link, but in the vast majority of cases I’m going to trust the opinion of multiple officials with the benefit of being able to see several angles of the incident repeatedly, over that of one referee to the naked eye in real team.

 

I can understand the entertainment argument (although for me, competitive fairness is more important than entertaining the fans), but you cannot rationally argue that VAR has made the actual decision making worse. 

I didn't say VAR had made decision-making worse. You were the one who is claiming that nobody should have the temerity to complain about terrible refereeing if we get rid of VAR. But terrible decisions happen under VAR as well, on a regular basis, so your argument is dung. 

You only need to take a look at the disclosed evidence from south of the border to see that this 'opinion of multuple officials' claim is not sound too. One VAR official deliberately overlooked a clear red card to stop his mate having to go to the VAR screen and overturn a call. The more senior clowns ignored the basic points of offside in the Spurs-Liverpool game despite it being pointed out to them during the decision-making process. Incompetent and arrogant officials marking the homework of their mates is not a sufficiently 'fair' or accurate system to make up for all its impacts on the game.

[54_and_counting]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Talk me through the logic here. People don’t understand what’s going on so why would we add information to help them understand what’s going on?

Also basing any sort of decision on the quality of punditry for an OF game is too stupid even for the SFA/SPFL. 

Well how will miking up help the general public when the public etc dont know the rules, they'll then just think "they are fucking at it" 

Its not just punditry, we had various ex refs claiming the rangers goal should have stood when it clearly shouldn't have, even when a current ref came out and explained why it was chopped off we had fans, pundits etc STILL claiming it should have been a goal

All miking up will do is put further scrutiny on officials as you'll have everyone analysing every word spoken looking for some form of cheating/conspiracy etc

[Sortmeout]

15 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Only salvagable thing (that might even still be a complete pile of pish) would be to only bother with any sort of assisted refereeing for major cup finals, as

i) theres maybe more of an argument to be made that giving refs help to get their calls correct in a play off/cup final is worth doing, and just accept there'll be more of a margin of error for refereeing in more mundane fixtures

ii) at least then theres an element of novelty to it, plus it means you can focus on investing in a quality VAR setup at the national stadium rather than forced, lowest bidder pish across the top flight. Still a necessary evil at clubs in Uefa competitions to have, but so be it.

Imagine your team were going 1-0 up in a cup final with a goal like McTominay’s and VAR rules it out.

[Dons_1988]

Just now, 54_and_counting said:

Well how will miking up help the general public when the public etc dont know the rules, they'll then just think "they are fucking at it" 

Its not just punditry, we had various ex refs claiming the rangers goal should have stood when it clearly shouldn't have, even when a current ref came out and explained why it was chopped off we had fans, pundits etc STILL claiming it should have been a goal

All miking up will do is put further scrutiny on officials as you'll have everyone analysing every word spoken looking for some form of cheating/conspiracy etc

You can tell you support rangers tbh. That is OF logic right there.  

Id sooner fire VAR into the sea and nuke it before miking up but clearly giving people additional information can only be a good thing if you’re using VAR. 

 

[FK1Bairn]

8 minutes ago, virginton said:

You only need to take a look at the disclosed evidence from south of the border to see that this 'opinion of multuple officials' claim is not sound too. One VAR official deliberately overlooked a clear red card to stop his mate having to go to the VAR screen and overturn a call. The more senior clowns ignored the basic points of offside in the Spurs-Liverpool game despite it being pointed out to them during the decision-making process. Incompetent and arrogant officials marking the homework of their mates is not a sufficiently 'fair' or accurate system to make up for all its impacts on the game.

I can't remember where I heard it but there was some chat somewhere that the VAR officials in the Spurs v Liverpool game were distracted by the Ryder Cup being on at the same time. Shocking if true and I'd hope they will be sufficiently demoted

Edited October 14, 2023 by FK1Bairn

[Miguel Sanchez]

16 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

Imagine your team were going 1-0 up in a cup final with a goal like McTominay’s and VAR rules it out.

My response, as an intellectual: "Well in the interests of competitive fairness the correct decision was reached, I can have no complaints. Chapeau, Mr. Referee." Polite applause before Celtic score five in the next 20 minutes.

[vikingTON]

16 minutes ago, FK1Bairn said:

I can't remember where I heard it but there was some chat somewhere that the VAR officials in the Spurs v Liverpool game were distracted by the Ryder Cup being on at the same time. Shocking if true and I'd hope they will be sufficiently demoted

If they're distracted by a game of golf then the only suitable punishment is a gulag in the Arctic Circle. 

[54_and_counting]

57 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

You can tell you support rangers tbh. That is OF logic right there.  

Id sooner fire VAR into the sea and nuke it before miking up but clearly giving people additional information can only be a good thing if you’re using VAR. 

 

Whats OF logic, the fact that most of the watching public have no idea of the latest guidelines and rules that current refs follow

So how would miking up the ref in the recent OF have stopped the fallout of the ruled out goal, even when it was explained in the aftermath we STILL had fucking doughballs claiming the ref got it wrong and VAR shouldn't have gotten involved as it wasnt a clear and obvious error

(and before anyone says anything, i knew on the VAR replays why it was ruled out given it happened to us before, its the correct call and VAR were right to intervene) 

 

[Dons_1988]

40 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Whats OF logic, the fact that most of the watching public have no idea of the latest guidelines and rules that current refs follow

So how would miking up the ref in the recent OF have stopped the fallout of the ruled out goal, even when it was explained in the aftermath we STILL had fucking doughballs claiming the ref got it wrong and VAR shouldn't have gotten involved as it wasnt a clear and obvious error

(and before anyone says anything, i knew on the VAR replays why it was ruled out given it happened to us before, its the correct call and VAR were right to intervene) 

 

The idea that giving people more information results in more conspiracy theories and scrutiny. That may be true in OF world but guess what, we don’t all live there. Just because glasgow media is filled with c***s trying to stir up shite we all need to suffer? 

And see folk that like to lump the ‘watching public’ as braindead morons that can’t cope with simple words? They’re the worst c***s, and can f**k right off. 

[54_and_counting]

44 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The idea that giving people more information results in more conspiracy theories and scrutiny. That may be true in OF world but guess what, we don’t all live there. Just because glasgow media is filled with c***s trying to stir up shite we all need to suffer? 

And see folk that like to lump the ‘watching public’ as braindead morons that can’t cope with simple words? They’re the worst c***s, and can f**k right off. 

Who said they cant cope with simple words? 

[Charles Stiles]

2 hours ago, FK1Bairn said:

I can't remember where I heard it but there was some chat somewhere that the VAR officials in the Spurs v Liverpool game were distracted by the Ryder Cup being on at the same time. Shocking if true and I'd hope they will be sufficiently demoted

That sounds like the biggest load of twitter made up garbage I've heard in a while.

 

When discussing VAR's removal you've to factor in one of the main reasons given for bringing it in was to allow Scottish refs to be given Euro/big competition games as it's now a requirement. I think helping clubs competing in Euro games was also a reason. (Obviously this was thinking of all Scottish clubs, not only helping a couple that qualify every year) What the fans want is never going to win when the Hampden suits are basically looking after their chums as per usual.

[willywastecoat]

3 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

My response, as an intellectual: "Well in the interests of competitive fairness the correct decision was reached, I can have no complaints. Chapeau, Mr. Referee." Polite applause before Celtic score five in the next 20 minutes.

That's what VAR is doing taking the emotion out the game which is a good thing in some ways but not scoring a goal like that M8.