Dons_1988 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, velo army said: I applaud Morton in this but I can't for the life of me understand how you guys were the only dissenting club. Only club that consulted its fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty It Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 hours ago, DA Baracus said: Unfortunately there's a large number of fans who do support VAR. We're talking about fans that actually go to games, not c***s that sit in their house watching whatever OF team sky have decided to broadcast any given weekend. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Ever since I started following the NHL in 2002 there were video reviews for goals that weren't clear. A combination of the net, players and early 2000s cameras could make it difficult to see if the puck was fully across the line, and there were inevitably some contentious moments. Google "flames game 6 goal" and you'll see. There are also reviews to see if a goal was scored by a high stick (if the stick is above the crossbar when it touches the puck before it goes in, it's not a goal). These make sense. You need to see if a goal is scored, and goal line technology isn't possible with a net that moves and various other factors of the game. It also helps that hockey is a stop start game, where the clock stops when there's a stoppage. A few years ago there was a game with a really bad missed offside call: It's offside if a player is over the blue line before the puck is. Well. The result was a coach's challenge for offside and goalie interference calls. You get one per game. If you challenge and the challenge was right, you keep it. if you challenge and get it wrong, you lose the challenge and the other team gets a powerplay. Offside challenges were a nonsense. They started making up rules. Oh if a guy is offside but on the other side of the ice it's fine. Oh his leg can be up in the air if it's in line with the blue line. Oh if a guy carries it in but isn't in "control" it's fine too. Nonsense. Still is, but at least they've clarified it as they've gone along. Goalie interference was predictably terrible. Goalies started selling everything, and refs bought it, usually. Eventually this changed. I don't think it was ever explicitly stated, but there was a shift to a sentiment of 'if the goalie wasn't getting to it anyway, it's fine.' The point is, in a sport with far fewer moving points, a smaller and better lit field of play, regular stoppages as part of regular play and with a limitation on how much video review there can be for either team, it's still an utter nonsense. Football is a much more fluid, subjective sport, with more moving parts and a much more hostile environment for the officials in terms of players, coaches, fans and media pressure. Fundamentally I don't think the concept works, and I don't see what improvement there can be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) the AFL has the least painful & disruptive implementation of video assistance. Only gets used during the game if a goal umpire is unsure as to whether something should be a goal or a behind. It can also be used after the fact when reviewing if a heavy handed hit merits a fine. Edited October 13, 2023 by GNU_Linux 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: the AFL has the least painful & disruptive implementation of video assistance. Only gets used during the game if a goal umpire is unsure as to whether something should be a goal or a behind. It can also be used after the fact when reviewing if a heavy handed hit merits a fine. Oh I forgot, the NHL also fines/suspends players for dirty hits/plays, with video (slow motion video) presumably forming a big part of the cases against players. It is, quite literally, a lottery. You think bad tackles in football look bad in slow-mo, imagine the players are twice the size and twice as fast and are trying to make full body contact. It goes as well as you'd expect. Edited October 13, 2023 by Miguel Sanchez 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 hours ago, Desp said: Pundits on TV have berated refs so much over the years for errors that those in charge have decided to have this strive for 'perfection'. I don't think perfection was ever asked for, and there's no chance in hell it will ever be achieved. That was driven by managers being shitebags and throwing out ludicrous bollocks about a ref's decision costing them their job/causing a relegation/losing people at relegated clubs their jobs etc, but, most importantly, costing clubs money, all being cheered on by far too many fans who agreed. 4 hours ago, GNU_Linux said: Blame Scottish fitba & it's habit of copying whatever happens down south eg our nonsensical SPFL division names. We also have the pish argument of our refs not being able to ref games in Europe if they don't have VAR experience too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 52 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Only club that consulted its fans. I might be wrong but I don't recall our board actually doing a fan consultation. Just decided 'this is an utter shite and pointless addition' based on the fan perspective and registered that view accordingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, virginton said: I might be wrong but I don't recall our board actually doing a fan consultation. Just decided 'this is an utter shite and pointless addition' based on the fan perspective and registered that view accordingly. Didn't MCT run their own consultation, among members? I think I read that somewhere at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorie Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I must admit I’ve fake more enjoyed watching goals when at lower league games recently. Knowing if the flag isn’t up it’s a goal. I watch a lot of the Portuguese league. Your looking at 12/13 minutes added time due to it. With sometimes a 21:15 kick off looking getting out of there closer to midnight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 VAR is shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It's been a disaster and costs an absolute fortune, both of which were predicted - but the clubs ignored that and fan sentiment beforehand, and will no doubt continue to. Plus it would only take 4 clubs to block its repeal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 hours ago, DukDukGoose said: VAR has never stopped me celebrating a goal. Proof of this was making a complete c**t of myself celebrating the 'goal' last night. Fortunately I was only in my living room. I still want it in the bin though. I still celebrate like mad as well especially when you are at a game but you’ve still got that feeling hanging over you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIT THE CHANNEL Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: It's been a disaster and costs an absolute fortune, both of which were predicted - but the clubs ignored that and fan sentiment beforehand, and will no doubt continue to. Plus it would only take 4 clubs to block its repeal. Is this 4 clubs in the top flight or four of the 42? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, HIT THE CHANNEL said: Is this 4 clubs in the top flight or four of the 42? If repealing would need same as adopting: requires 9/12 in Premiership... 17/22 in top 2 divisions... and 32/42 in SPFL. However given only they use it Premiership would have most to win/lose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIT THE CHANNEL Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said: If repealing would need same as adopting: requires 9/12 in Premiership... 17/22 in top 2 divisions... and 32/42 in SPFL. However given only they use it Premiership would have most to win/lose. Thanks mate. That’s a tough ask, but not an impossible feat. Most clubs have pretty active fan groups that are key to the club (volunteers, fundraising, community work etc.). I’m sure they could organise a ‘fan survey’ for their club and present it to their respective boards. Participation in said surveys should be restricted to season ticket holders/folks that attend games at least semi regularly, though. As these are the folks that it most impacts and have the most leverage if (should surveys should a desire for removal) boards refuse to play ball. Again, if any folks reading this are in positions of influence within fan groups, especially top flight teams, please do try and get the ball rolling. VAR is fucking dreadful and it needs fired into the bin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Only salvagable thing (that might even still be a complete pile of pish) would be to only bother with any sort of assisted refereeing for major cup finals, as i) theres maybe more of an argument to be made that giving refs help to get their calls correct in a play off/cup final is worth doing, and just accept there'll be more of a margin of error for refereeing in more mundane fixtures ii) at least then theres an element of novelty to it, plus it means you can focus on investing in a quality VAR setup at the national stadium rather than forced, lowest bidder pish across the top flight. Still a necessary evil at clubs in Uefa competitions to have, but so be it. Edited October 13, 2023 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 13 hours ago, DA Baracus said: Unfortunately there's a large number of fans who do support VAR. Don't mean to sound like an irritating "source?" bore but as far as I can see every fan survey on it has been overwhelmingly anti-VAR. It seems to be those twitter accounts with players as profile pictures that have probably never attended a game that seem to be in favour of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Proud of Utd taking a stand and relegating ourselves over this. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It’s been a shambles. There’s more chat now about var decisions than there is moments of great skill, great goals, shock results. Every week we have to suffer the same shite. The media love it as it gives them some ‘controversy’ to go over all evening ad nauseam. Clubs and managers like it, as when was the last time a premiership manager cared about how entertaining a match was?! They’re only interested in feeling they haven’t had a decision against them. I’d be all for some kind of protest about it, but how far would people be prepared to go on this? … is boycotting matches realistic? Banners at every ground over every weekend saying f**k VAR? If not, all fans agree to sit silently through all matches until they get rid of it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagpuss Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It has ruined the spontaneity of the game at the top level, when your team scores a goal and you don't know if it's worth celebrating a goal or it'll get chalked off because a nose hair was offside. As a Raith fan this hasn't been a problem thus far, but if by some miracle we got promoted this would be coming our way. Would also like to know if the OF have had much the benefit of contentious VAR decisions compared with the rest . That's the impression I'm left with. Would worry for us being the diddiest team in the league. We've tried it it's not working out. Let's go back to human error and arguing about it in the pub afterwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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